[moldcad]

I love my 528xi, but the N20 engine is a source of constant frustration. Unfortunately I'm not in a position to upgrade to ann I6 (gas or diesel) while staying with the F10 refinement and comfort on those long business trips I do a lot...

The only way to get hold of the 35i engine would be for me to swap my 528xi for the M235i. Did anyone do back-to-back comparisons of the two? Is having the legendary engine worth compromising the comfort and refinement of the F10? I'll add that I drive alone 100%, so inside space is not an issue.

Please help me with your thoughts...

[pikcachu]

You should do a test drive....
the 5 will always be a big car...

If you drive alone, I would go for it

a friend has a 550xi and even though it has a lot of power the sound is not there....but it is comfortable...softer and quieter than the m235

[jmkr]

I think you already know the answer from how you framed your question

The N20 is great, but if it leaves you wanting more that probably won't change anytime soon. I went from a 2013 328i to a M235i and love it every second - the engine note alone seals the deal. Sure I pay a little more now, but feel like this is how a 40-50k car should drive, opposed to stealth-mode efficiency.

Cons of M235i: less space and on average 3-5 mpg less? of course less road comfort compared to the 5 series, and possibly lower quality interior finish.

Test drive one a few times and see if you like it

[ska///235i]

If you dont need the extra space/doors then the 235 is doable. In comfort mode the car is soft.

[jawal]

I owned a 2011 535i RWD and recently switched to a M235i and I couldn’t be happier. I realize this isn’t exactly your scenario. But like you, I drive a lot and most of the time I’m alone. I don’t need the space. What attracted me to the M235i – which has fulfilled all of my expectations – it’s super-fast, with an extremely responsive throttle. I got the 8-speed ZF auto transmission and it is ALWAYS in the gear I want it to be. When I’m ready to step on it coming out of a corner, it’s right with me. You hear people refer to a car fitting like a glove – the M235i does exactly that. You don’t drive it as much as you wear it. I enjoy (safely!) darting around the road in a tossable car. The M235i is perfect for that. For reference, other cars I’ve owned that I also liked that were similar in this way: a 1990 911, a 1991 MR2 and a 2001 BMW E39. I never take cars on tracks.

The M235i engine is amazing, and unlike the F10, I feel like really have access to it. In the F10, the power was trapped by a drivetrain that was tuned for good gas mileage I guess. I didn’t like how it started from a dead stop – pulling into traffic was downright frightening until you realize you really have to punch it to make it go fast. It was a very non-linear response. I always felt like I was battling the transmission to gain control over the car. And it was never ready in the gear I wanted. The M235i is nothing like this. Also, steering on the M235i is better, the steering wheel is better, the suspension is better, and the seats are better.

I like the looks of the front 2/3rds of the M235i and it has a much more aggressive look to my eye, but overall I liked the looks of the F10 better. I like the 435 aesthetic as well, but it doesn’t drive much better than the F10. I would have been unhappy if I bought the 435i. Maybe if BMW makes an M435i/435is, that would be a great car. I would never spend the money on an M4, though I could see why others would.

My only minor quibble…the M235i suspension is jittery, even in Comfort mode. I like the sports package on my E39 better – it was firm, but not jittery. The F10 is a nice cruiser, and the M235i can be too, but the F10 is better from that perspective.

The mistakes I made when I bought the F10…I thought it would drive like my E39 – not even close. The F10 is a big car and you feel every bit of it. I’ve heard people refer to the F10 as a 7/8ths version of a 7 series. That’s how it drives. I also didn’t spec the right suspension. I should have gotten the F10 704 M Sport suspension. That may have addressed my issue above. But nothing I could have ordered was going to fix the steering or the throttle response.

The choice I made works for me. But I would recommend you find some way to experience the suspension and make sure that the jitteriness isn’t going to drive you nuts. It is not an F10 cruiser.

Hope this helps.

[VeryBadman]

My experience might not be an exact match but since I own a direct competitor of BMW 5 Series which is AWD like your car and BMW 2 Series, I think I can share you some pieces of my thought.

Obviously, you will have to sacrifice comfort and space both cabin and trunk in the mid-size sedan to get into 2 Series which is a smaller car. M235i will be faster and funnier to drive than your 528xi but for a long drive, it will be less satisfying than your current car and I think trunk space is quite important for long drive since you tend to carry more stuffs when you are on a trip. Trunk space in 2 Series is not bad but after I did a long trip, I still think it would be more convenient if I have brought the Audi S6 instead of 228i.

Not only that, the smaller cabin and the seat position in 2 Series also make the long drive less comfortable and my car has sport suspension setup (sport package has the same suspension setup as M Sport) so it makes that comfort matter even worse. Like jawal said, it's jittering and the road in US is definitely less than ideal so I could totally feel the road condition passing through the suspension to my body. That's another point that made me think that I prefer Audi S6 over 228i for a long drive after all.

Anyway, granted my 2 cars are so different so they cannot really compare. Audi S6 has vastly more powerful engine than BMW 228i and adaptive air suspension which can negate road condition a lot and it is being an S model so it's no slouch either but overall it should give you some idea what you would see in getting into a smaller car.

[moldcad]

Thank you guys for sharing your thoughts so far. I should have added in my OP that - besides the N20 engine not being smooth and powerful enough for such a big car the F10 is - I also find myself missing my old good E46 330i, which the M235i resembles so much. I mean, the 330i and the M235i are both driver's cars, while the F10 is perhaps more comfy, uses better materials etc. but is not a driver's car at all - even though I got rid of RFT tires (running 19" Michelin PSSs now), I feel isolated from the road and this takes the fun factor away...

But of course I realize that for frequent long distance driving, comfort and safety can be more important than fun and power - hence the dilemma... Also, two persons stated that the M235i's suspension is "jittering"; could you please tell me whether you have the adaptive suspension (with EDC/DDC), and yet it's not comfy enough even in Comfort+ setting?

[darkerosxx]

I drive 3 hours in two trips each week. I came from a330ci. The suspension is more stiff in sport mode, but only slightly more stiff in comfort mode. I have only felt like the comfort level improved from car to car. For me, it's a great car for long drives.

[VeryBadman]

Originally Posted by moldcad

Thank you guys for sharing your thoughts so far. I should have added in my OP that - besides the N20 engine not being smooth and powerful enough for such a big car the F10 is - I also find myself missing my old good E46 330i, which the M235i resembles so much. I mean, the 330i and the M235i are both driver's cars, while the F10 is perhaps more comfy, uses better materials etc. but is not a driver's car at all - even though I got rid of RFT tires (running 19" Michelin PSSs now), I feel isolated from the road and this takes the fun factor away...

But of course I realize that for frequent long distance driving, comfort and safety can be more important than fun and power - hence the dilemma... Also, two persons stated that the M235i's suspension is "jittering"; could you please tell me whether you have the adaptive suspension (with EDC/DDC), and yet it's not comfy enough even in Comfort+ setting?

In my case it is M sport suspension setup only without adaptive function. However, I will never do a long trip in Comfort+ (or Eco Pro, I don't see Comfort+ in my car) since the steering is too light. It's too anxious to drive at high speed with the steering that light. Anyway, my car is 228 so I don't have an option to customize steering, transmission, and steering settings separately but you will have that ability in M235i.

Again, I actually compared my rather not so loaded 228i with a high trim loaded S6 with blow and whistle so the difference is great. You might find 528xi not so different from M235i and could be satisfy with it enough to move on.

[moldcad]

You're absolutely right - I have EDC in my F10, but when driving fast on a motorway I'm always in the chassis' Sport mode; otherwise the car is unstable and very susceptible to crosswinds. But on lower category, poor quality roads, switching to Comfort+ is a godsend!

[numbersguy]

I've been driving my 535i for a little over a year. When the lease is up I'll turn it in for an M235i with a six speed.

This particular F10 is a wonderful freeway cruiser and has been absolutely trouble free. Because of the smoothness and ease of control you can blast through freeway traffic without feeling stress, and that makes it faster in the real world of So Cal traffic than anything I've ever driven.

But it isn't a fun car to drive. It has plenty of getaway thrust when you need it but strangely enough that doesn't make it a fun car to drive. Last week I had to take my wife's Boxster S to to the shop for service and I was reminded what a fun car feels like.

It's not just the motor that makes your car feel the way it feels. It's everything else about the car that gives it that feel. It wasn't designed for having fun.

[moldcad]

Originally Posted by numbersguy

It wasn't designed for having fun.

+1

Considering my tight budget, and the fact that in Poland every swapping of a car (especially a rather expensive one) means huge financial losses - I was very unlucky I had to buy a car in late 2012, long before the M235i became available. Otherwise I wouldn't have any dilemma whatsoever about which to choose - I'm definitely more sport than luxury oriented driver. In spite of my almost 60 years of age

[jawal]

I'm the other person that mentioned that the M235i can be "jittery." My 535 did not have adaptive suspension. My M235i does. The M235i -- even in comfort mode -- does not make the ride anything like what the 535 was. That's (way more) good and (a little) bad. M235i way more fun and you feel way more connected to the road. The 535 felt like driving a barge. But the 535 has no jittery either.

I would distill it like this. If you want fun -- no question M235i hands down. No competition whatsoever. But if you want weekend fun and your weekdays are dominated by long haul commutes where you spend most of the time Bluetooth and on conference calls on the phone and aren't really paying attention to how much fun the driving part is, then I think you have a tougher decision, especially if trading involves a large financial penalty.

For me the decision was clear -- I would never trade back to the 535 and in the moment can't see myself ever owning another one. Ever.

Happy deciding!

[JustChris]

I went F10 520D to M235i.

Very very different cars, strongly suggest a test drive as it's chalk and cheese. Loving it myself but the refinement is not really there, it's quite noisy and bouncy in comparison.

[moldcad]

OK guys, have made my decision how to eat a cake and have a cake: ordered the Golf 7 R!

Thanks for your input

[VeryBadman]

Originally Posted by moldcad

OK guys, have made my decision how to eat a cake and have a cake: ordered the Golf 7 R!

Thanks for your input

Congrats! That's quite different from what you had in mind originally.

[philisme]

Switching from a 530d F10 MT with M sport package (remapped to 310hp) to a M235i Auto, I do not regret one second. Actually, I enjoy each mile in this little F22.

So yes, it's less comfortable on highway (my F10 has comfort seats...) and itt more noisy on concrete roads. But it's a lot more responsive and I think it fit better my "personality" (I'm 28 yo).

Have you considered the F30 335i with M sport package and Sport gearbox ?

[moldcad]

Originally Posted by philisme

and it's more noisy on concrete roads. But it's a lot more responsive and I think it fit better my "personality" (I'm 28 yo)

You made me interested with the above statement, as - after dumping my F10's Conti RFTs for Michelin PSSs (the same M235i uses)- I also found it much more noisy on some types of roads... Could it be the tires?

[philisme]

I don't know...

My F10 had Michelin PSS (no RFT) on the rear and Michelin Pilot 3 (no RFT) on the front (PSS not available in this size).
My M235i has Bridgestone Potenza S001 RFTs.

The global insonorisation was logically better in the F10. But it's not bad at all.
Actually, my M235i do it better than my associate 330d E92 LCI coupé.

[midwest 340xi 6sp]

I had an F'10 528 loaner...

SHAME on BMW for putting the N20 in an F'10 - horrible mis-match.

The N20 is a fine, little motor in it's own right - but only within the x1, 2, 3 or 4 cars or SAV's.

[3.0L]

Originally Posted by moldcad

You made me interested with the above statement, as - after dumping my F10's Conti RFTs for Michelin PSSs (the same M235i uses)- I also found it much more noisy on some types of roads... Could it be the tires?

Quite possibly. The Mazda RX-8 I just traded in came equipped with Bridgestone Potenza tires. Awesome grip but horribly noisy on anything but the smoothest of road surfaces. And after those tires had 5000+ miles, it got worse. Much worse. I couldn't wait for them to wear out so I could replace them. Bought Kuhmo's of the same dimensions and speed ratings. Still some road noise, but a noticeable improvement over the Bridgestones.

As to the Michelin Super Sports on my new M235i, they also display some road noise, but it is variable, depending on the road surface. In any case, they are quieter than the Bridgestone Potenza's and Kuhmo's I had on my old car.

[moldcad]

Exactly - on some types of modern tarmac (especially this porous one), the Michelin PSSs can be noisy. But the grip and comfort are worth it - BTW, I was prepared they would not be particularly quiet judging on the noise rating of 72 dB (in EU, each tire needs to wear a label with rolling resistance, noise, and wet breaking performance ratings.)

Interestingly, Dunlop tires are generally the quietest - even my winter 3D RFTs are rated at just 68 dB, and indeed they are less noisy than the summer performance, non-RFTs PSSs!