[LDSM]

Originally Posted by mmmmm235i

2)Any suggestion that the car is more nimble because it is 200lbs lighter. I mean c'mon. So, the same guys arguing that they wouldn't notice the bigger engine on the streets act like they notice the 200lbs. of weight difference because your just cornering SO hard. Even if this were true, which I think would only matter in extreme situations, the 35 is going to make up for it with the extra power. If this were the case I would never allow passengers so that I can keep up with those 228s in the corners.

Do a test, drive any car solo, then have 2 passengers get in the back seat, roughly 200lbs. You'll realize that 200lbs does make a difference in feel, you can definitely feel it in braking and acceleration, even at low speeds.

I don't doubt the 228 is probably more agile and responsive due to the lighter front end, although I went with the M235, that's one of the points that was swaying me towards the 228.

[bluemeanie]

It's not only the 200 pound weight difference but also the weight distribution. The four cylinder is behind the front axel, whereas the six protrudes slightly forward. The four accordingly has a smaller polar moment of inertia and is less prone to understeer.

[pazzo]

Originally Posted by LDSM

Do a test, drive any car solo, then have 2 passengers get in the back seat, roughly 200lbs. You'll realize that 200lbs does make a difference in feel, you can definitely feel it in braking and acceleration, even at low speeds.

Yep, try 2 up on a motorcycle and you'll really notice the diff in accel and braking. It's exaggerated, but the same principle.

[pazzo]

Originally Posted by bluemeanie

It's not only the 200 pound weight difference but also the weight distribution. The four cylinder is behind the front axel, whereas the six protrudes slightly forward. The four accordingly has a smaller polar moment of inertia and is less prone to understeer.

I was trying to keep it simple, given the audience.

[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by mmmmm235i

To the valencia orange contingent: I did not mean to leave you out from this ridiculous argument, I just didn't want you Orange fanatics jumping in saying it doesn't come in orange. haha

Thank you sportstick for gathering that info, so I didn't have to. So yes that's what I thought, with the THP the 228 has the same suspension. You forgot to tell me how much that package is on the 228, because its standard on the 235. Because if you read my post I was making a point about how close in price a heavily optioned 228 can get to a 235. I'm sorry that anyone was offended and I think someone brought up a good point about people taking posts so offensively when I was simply trying to give my view. I don't feel in any way superior in my car, it is the lowest platform BMW offers. I always hated when people bashed the e9x 28s because they weren't fast enough to be fun. That is NOT what I am trying to say and I'm shocked by the response.
You guys are throwing stones and then when I try to argue a different side start crying. If it wasn't clear by all my other posts here you go:
1) The 235s power is usable on the streets: people used to say this about the e9x M3, although a great car it needed to be revved so high for fun. The 235 and the 228 are nothing like that with incredible torque and response at LOW SPEEDS. Yea the car is comfortable at 100, but so has every BMW I've ever been in. You will feel the difference from 0-60. Chaswyck, your thing about 600 v. 800hp car is so off base its laughable. Yes, I agree at that point it doesnt really matter at all, couldn't care less at that point. This is 320 v. 240, which is noticeable in a daily drive.

2)Any suggestion that the car is more nimble because it is 200lbs lighter. I mean c'mon. So, the same guys arguing that they wouldn't notice the bigger engine on the streets act like they notice the 200lbs. of weight difference because your just cornering SO hard. Even if this were true, which I think would only matter in extreme situations, the 35 is going to make up for it with the extra power. If this were the case I would never allow passengers so that I can keep up with those 228s in the corners.

3) In what car universe are extra cylinders a penalty, especially when we are talking about BMWs tried and true i6. The only time I could see this is V(W)10-12 status Also I believe gas prices have been down for the past 100? days. I filled up this baby for 30 bucks today, so if you are even broaching the subject of performance and mods this expense should not even be part of the conversation.


Just wanted to address those that were offended. Please do not bother to reply to this post unless you have something constructive to say about 1-3. I don't care to talk about anything else on a car forum.

I will follow the requested format:

1) Yes, it's noticeable. But, for every advantage, there is a "cost", and that doesn't imply limitation to financial costs. The difference in power you notice is of far lower priority to some others than it is to you given the 228i capability. The resulting "cost" of an also-noticeable change in chassis dynamics isn't worth the trade-off.

2) Your assertion of the lack of noticeable difference in chassis dynamics is simply inaccurate. As others have pointed out quite well, the weight amount and placement are a significant change and alter the weight distribution of the vehicle. The engineers at my prior car company (not BMW) would go to great lengths to reduce weight by amounts far less than 200lbs, especially over the front axle. You find more engine power noticeable and more important...that's fine. There is a car for you! Others feel the same about steering and chassis dynamics. Cornering "so hard" is not the issue. We appreciate finesse and balance as much as you appreciate more power. Neither makes one car the "best". You might as well argue the "best" choices at Baskin-Robbins. More is not better....it is just more.

3) The 235 brings along extra purchase price and fuel usage. Those are just facts. The fuel is not simply economic, but represents a particular waste if the supposed offsetting benefit is of no importance to the driver. Conceptually, some of us who have worked to the point of being able to buy whatever we want also learned we didn't get there by being casual about wasting resources. It's a personal philosophy to target what I need, what I want, and not waste resources to pursue what is neither. 228i hit my sweet spot after finding the 4 Series and M235i did not. Also, I wouldn't rely on the current oil glut as being long-term...a mere temporary OPEC tactic.

An additional part of the "waste" idea is having to take an engine of no great additional value to us just to get the associated equipment you called out as standard vs. optional. This is just a matter of product planning. It seems more creative than a flaw to configure a comparably equipped car with the equipment, from interior to chassis, one desires but without having to spend for additional cylinders which are not of personal value.

I'll add a 4). It may go along with the same mindset which results in making subjective statements of superiority, but it would be wrong to conclude any of the earlier comments have the power to offend or make anyone "cry". In reality, we are strangers and what each other thinks of our cars could not be of less importance. We are here to exchange ideas and information and a shared enthusiasm for BMW. But, we don't need to defend a lifeless material object from a stranger's negative comments! However, and possibly moreso for those who are/have been parents, teachers, or (horrors) both...we feel compelled to react to overtly flawed thinking. No one here would ever disagree with a statement such as "For me, the M235 is the best choice because I love the extra power over the 228i". But, the earlier postings of supposed objective "best" are simply incorrect because one cannot rationally link objective superiority to a subjective attribute, such as the pleasure for some people of just going faster. And, no, the intention of simply offering a personal opinion is not implied, especially when the writing is so to the contrary. We only know what you write, not what you are thinking.

[Bimmer86]

Originally Posted by mmmmm235i

1) The 235s power is usable on the streets: people used to say this about the e9x M3, although a great car it needed to be revved so high for fun. The 235 and the 228 are nothing like that with incredible torque and response at LOW SPEEDS. Yea the car is comfortable at 100, but so has every BMW I've ever been in. You will feel the difference from 0-60. Chaswyck, your thing about 600 v. 800hp car is so off base its laughable. Yes, I agree at that point it doesnt really matter at all, couldn't care less at that point. This is 320 v. 240, which is noticeable in a daily drive.

Just wanted to mention that useable power really is directly related to your driving style. I drove both cars and the bottom line is that with how I drive, I would not be driving/accelerating the m235i any faster than I am currently driving my 228i. I don't necessarily drive slow, but I don't really drive too aggressively either. I would essentially just be wasting that extra hp. You could break it down further into engine noise and feel, but that's a whole other topic.

tl;dr: We all have excellent cars that meet our needs and driving styles.

[///MCFC]

228's 200-pound weight advantage is at least partly attributable to fewer standard features. a no-option, no moonroof 235i is prob a lot closer. i need to weigh mine.

[nachob]

Originally Posted by ///MCFC

228's 200-pound weight advantage is at least partly attributable to fewer standard features. a no-option, no moonroof 235i is prob a lot closer. i need to weigh mine.

Yes! That would make things much closer.

The problem is BMW USA doesn't let you get a low option m235. All the bloatware is mandatory except for sunroof. Power seats mandatory. I drive mandatory, power motorized folding mirrors, mandatory. Electromagnetic suspension mandatory in USA.

[akuan99]

One important factor is that F22 has small gas tank and the extra MPG's on 228i is one noticeable advantage.
I still feel gas tank is too small even for N20 engine as I feel driving range is not adequate.

[335BOY]

Originally Posted by akuan99

One important factor is that F22 has small gas tank and the extra MPG's on 228i is one noticeable advantage.
I still feel gas tank is too small even for N20 engine as I feel driving range is not adequate.

How far can you go?

[SmallTownBoy]

Originally Posted by 335BOY

How far can you go?

Fuel tank capacity is 52 litres.

228i auto has advertised fuel economy (per bmw.ca) of 10 L/100km city and 6.5 L/100km highway, so advertised range is 520 km city/800 km highway.

M235i auto advertised economy is 11.5/7.6 so range would be 452/652 (km).

Literally, YMMV. For instance, my M235i manual is rated at 11.9 L/100 km city. For the past 3 months, almost exclusively cold-weather city driving, I'm getting 9.9 L/100 km.

[tke743]

Originally Posted by akuan99

One important factor is that F22 has small gas tank and the extra MPG's on 228i is one noticeable advantage.

Not if you drive it like you stole it, which quite a few people here do.

My net on this subject (having driven both, the 228i I drove had the track package)

The 228i is a more nimble car and is a blast to drive. The M235i is still a nimble car, but not like the 228i. Then there's the mill in the M325i, this in my mind, makes up for the slightly less nimble feeling. The M235i's mill could put a smile on a coma victims face. I bought the M235i.

On a track with a decent driver the M235i will win, but they are closer then people think.

[JustChris]

Originally Posted by SmallTownBoy

Fuel tank capacity is 52 litres.

228i auto has advertised fuel economy (per bmw.ca) of 10 L/100km city and 6.5 L/100km highway, so advertised range is 520 km city/800 km highway.

M235i auto advertised economy is 11.5/7.6 so range would be 452/652 (km).

Literally, YMMV. For instance, my M235i manual is rated at 11.9 L/100 km city. For the past 3 months, almost exclusively cold-weather city driving, I'm getting 9.9 L/100 km.

6MT car in the UK I averaged almost exactly 30mpg which was 350 ish miles range in the car.

[JustChris]

Originally Posted by akuan99

One important factor is that F22 has small gas tank and the extra MPG's on 228i is one noticeable advantage.
I still feel gas tank is too small even for N20 engine as I feel driving range is not adequate.

+1 I thought the 52L was a bit odd and a small size, plenty of petrol receipts for expenses though!

[335BOY]

Originally Posted by SmallTownBoy

Fuel tank capacity is 52 litres.

228i auto has advertised fuel economy (per bmw.ca) of 10 L/100km city and 6.5 L/100km highway, so advertised range is 520 km city/800 km highway.

M235i auto advertised economy is 11.5/7.6 so range would be 452/652 (km).

Literally, YMMV. For instance, my M235i manual is rated at 11.9 L/100 km city. For the past 3 months, almost exclusively cold-weather city driving, I'm getting 9.9 L/100 km.

AVG 9.9 for only city ?? 500 kms/tank? I would call that awesome for i6 making 320hp. I had a B7 (V8) S4 a few years ago.......got about 250-300km city and 420ish was about farthest I every went on the highway on a 60 litre tank.

[SmallTownBoy]

Originally Posted by 335BOY

AVG 9.9 for only city ?? 500 kms/tank? I would call that awesome for i6 making 320hp. I had a B7 (V8) S4 a few years ago.......got about 250-300km city and 420ish was about farthest I every went on the highway on a 60 litre tank.

Yep, very pleased, especially for cold-weather mileage. > 90% city, though we have NO hills here (I suppose it cuts both ways). Using Shell V-Power 91 octane almost exclusively.

[mmmmm235i]

Originally Posted by Sportstick

I will follow the requested format:

1) Yes, it's noticeable. But, for every advantage, there is a "cost", and that doesn't imply limitation to financial costs. The difference in power you notice is of far lower priority to some others than it is to you given the 228i capability. The resulting "cost" of an also-noticeable change in chassis dynamics isn't worth the trade-off.

2) Your assertion of the lack of noticeable difference in chassis dynamics is simply inaccurate. As others have pointed out quite well, the weight amount and placement are a significant change and alter the weight distribution of the vehicle. The engineers at my prior car company (not BMW) would go to great lengths to reduce weight by amounts far less than 200lbs, especially over the front axle. You find more engine power noticeable and more important...that's fine. There is a car for you! Others feel the same about steering and chassis dynamics. Cornering "so hard" is not the issue. We appreciate finesse and balance as much as you appreciate more power. Neither makes one car the "best". You might as well argue the "best" choices at Baskin-Robbins. More is not better....it is just more.

3) The 235 brings along extra purchase price and fuel usage. Those are just facts. The fuel is not simply economic, but represents a particular waste if the supposed offsetting benefit is of no importance to the driver. Conceptually, some of us who have worked to the point of being able to buy whatever we want also learned we didn't get there by being casual about wasting resources. It's a personal philosophy to target what I need, what I want, and not waste resources to pursue what is neither. 228i hit my sweet spot after finding the 4 Series and M235i did not. Also, I wouldn't rely on the current oil glut as being long-term...a mere temporary OPEC tactic.

An additional part of the "waste" idea is having to take an engine of no great additional value to us just to get the associated equipment you called out as standard vs. optional. This is just a matter of product planning. It seems more creative than a flaw to configure a comparably equipped car with the equipment, from interior to chassis, one desires but without having to spend for additional cylinders which are not of personal value.

Thanks for that. I now completely understand how the 228 fits your needs and wants very well. I hope you too are capable of understanding how the 235 suits my needs. I'll have to test drive a 228 next time in in for service to see if I can notice the difference without scaring any salesman.

[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by mmmmm235i

I hope you too are capable of understanding how the 235 suits my needs.

Absolutely, completely respect your choice and wish you many years and miles of safe and happy driving!

[midwest 340xi 6sp]

Hey!

We all got cars that suit our needs....LEt's Party! (doing my best Rodney Dangerfield on the golf course in Caddyshack imitation)

EDIT: MODS, please sticky this at the top forever and for when the next prospective buyer comes asking which is "better" (not aiming this at you op!)

[gaijin]

None taken. The thread did contribute to firming our decision. Thanks to all that contributed!

[Steven1077]

We all know which is better, what people's needs are is another question

[Vervain]

Originally Posted by 335BOY

AVG 9.9 for only city ?? 500 kms/tank? I would call that awesome for i6 making 320hp. I had a B7 (V8) S4 a few years ago.......got about 250-300km city and 420ish was about farthest I every went on the highway on a 60 litre tank.

Yeah that's really hard to do in the m235i!

I just got 8.4L/100km on an 80km highway journey driving mostly up a gradient, between 120-140 kph. I'm quite happy. It's only been almost two weeks of having the car too, so it should get much better.