[ZilberGrau ZHP]

Having owned 3 E46 ZHPs (Sedan Coupe and Convertible- all tuned by BMW slightly different to match their differing personalities) and I have loved them all. I will be selling and getting an M240.

I have vacillated between the M2 and the M240- and many of you have and will too. Especially with the costs kind of close between the two And you all know the original Mission of the E46 ZHP- slightly better of everything vs standard 330i (Power, suspension, cosmetic, PRICE, MAYBE resale) with out being a full on M car. And it didn't have the M logo all over the body- a few on the inside but no problem there. And they were/are some sweet rides- some of the best in BMW history.

So with that in mind with a few mods the M240 could be a "homebrew" ZHP.
> New Springs to lower it a bit
> 10-15mm spacers to push the wheels out a bit
> new 18 or 19s (Probably 19s and Probably BBS)
> 8s in front 9s in back.
> Carbon fiber front splitter (With the slight lowering/19's and wheels pushed out a bit- this will be one lean machine
And will put a harder edge on the car making it less "frumpy" - the splitter and lowering make the car look slightly longer too.
> No need for engine mods- I mean the new HP and Torque is like E46 M3 330hp and 369 torques is pretty dam sweet.
> Alcantara Steering wheel

This all keeps with the ZHP mission- substantial upgrades that make it very BMW sporty with out a full M- I know since the prices
are so close- it is easy to just be done with it and buy an M. I fully endorse that decision. But I think for me personally I will like the M240 more for daily driving.

Since Mine will be mineral gray - the Carbon Fiber bits look PERFECTLY matched to that color. And it looks great.
The handling wont be M2 for sure but it will be 8/10 of it and it will be a smoother, quieter machine- Different machines for sure- great in their own way... but the M240 will look very racy without being over the top like the M2. Never to be tracked but who cares.

So the above will cost about 8k and will be pretty much equal to the M2.
But I like this being the new ZHP. Until they come out with the official version of the F22 ZHP?

[zenmaster]

What's a ZHP?

[ZilberGrau ZHP]

Heres one link- lots more out there
http://www.bmwblog.com/2012/04/21/co...a-special-bmw/

[123Britt]

I did find it interesting in watching the latest video from Joe Achillies from London who has a new M2 as well as an M135i who is looking into selling both and getting the 2017 M140i.
.
He describes much like you do that the combination and or blend of New B engine is so smooth and the delivery of power & options make it more suitable for an all around daily driver.
.
I think if you do enjoy and regularly track your car the M2 is better .
.
I don't think you can go wrong in either case. They are both HOT!
.

[RoundelM3]

I concur that the M2 is a "bargain" M-car, although it's tuned more for tracking and is suitable for the street. The M240i is more of a street car that does well on the track.

I also owned a 2003 E46 330i ZHP, and I added a few things to get the most out of it (Dinan software and hardware, aftermarket wheels, underdrive pulley, etc.), but the newer turbo engines and selectable suspension settings make the 2-series a worthy successor.

[DF]

Originally Posted by roundel335

I concur that the M2 is a "bargain" M-car, although it's tuned more for tracking and is suitable for the street. The M240i is more of a street car that does well on the track.

I also owned a 2003 E46 330i ZHP, and I added a few things to get the most out of it (Dinan software and hardware, aftermarket wheels, underdrive pulley, etc.), but the newer turbo engines and selectable suspension settings make the 2-series a worthy successor.

I don't think it's a bargain m car. The more I reead the more It's like a M240is than a real m car. It's biggest problem is it's too slow compared to the m240. It's got a body kit and bigger tires and a few bits here and there but there isn't enough to of a performance advantage over the m240. The gap between a m240 and a m2 is razor thin. Which I guess is reflected in the price. If the m2 was 58k or 60k it wouldn't sell. The m240 is a great car as is the m2. The m2 is track focused and the m240 street. But for all "it's not a proper m car" statements all that proper m badge buys less then a second on the track per the road amd track test. The 0-60 isn't a car length.

[wtfbrah]

Originally Posted by DF

I don't think it's a bargain m car. The more I reead the more It's like a M240is than a real m car. It's biggest problem is it's too slow compared to the m240. It's got a body kit and bigger tires and a few bits here and there but there isn't enough to of a performance advantage over the m240. The gap between a m240 and a m2 is razor thin. Which I guess is reflected in the price. If the m2 was 58k or 60k it wouldn't sell. The m240 is a great car as is the m2. The m2 is track focused and the m240 street. But for all "it's not a proper m car" statements all that proper m badge buys less then a second on the track per the road amd track test. The 0-60 isn't a car length.

Idk about that razor thing advantage - on a fairly short track the M2 beat the M235i by a good 2.5 seconds I believe, which is a lot. But maybe the 240 is faster by a good amount than the 235. I guess if you add the limited slip diff.. Maybe it's a close one

[DF]

Originally Posted by wtfbrah

Idk about that razor thing advantage - on a fairly short track the M2 beat the M235i by a good 2.5 seconds I believe, which is a lot. But maybe the 240 is faster by a good amount than the 235. I guess if you add the limited slip diff.. Maybe it's a close one

In the road and track test it was a m235 and it was less than a second. And r and t hates the m235 so the fact they posted it at all says something

[wtfbrah]

Hmm you may be on to something then. Reinforces my desire for the M240

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by DF

In the road and track test it was a m235 and it was less than a second. And r and t hates the m235 so the fact they posted it at all says something

Yep, it was less than 0.5 seconds a lap. Makes you wonder what a M235 could do with slightly more rubber and a $200 JP+ piggyback. I might be REALLY close.

[Grentz]

Want a track car that you can drive on the street? M2.
Want a street car you can drive on the track? M240i.

The M235i and M240i are already "ZHP". I have an e46 M3 and M235i and the 235i is quicker...

[wtfbrah]

Not a big fan of tunes, since they void factory warranty and then you rely on Dinan or whoever you went to to warranty it. I know the dealer CAN help you out and warranty it anyways but again you're counting on that.

I'd rather do things like a factory LSD, MPE, maybe cosmetic mods like Xpel stealth. IMO unless you track regularly the car is already more than fast enough for the street. 0-60 in less than 5 seconds is enough to get anyone arrested.

[ZilberGrau ZHP]

Originally Posted by Grentz

Want a track car that you can drive on the street? M2.
Want a street car you can drive on the track? M240i.

The M235i and M240i are already "ZHP". I have an e46 M3 and M235i and the 235i is quicker...

Good point-but just as the ZHP was a "sportier look" also I cant wait to mod mine with the 19's and carbon fiber bits. The front splitter and lowering it an inch or so will make it look really tight IMO- racy without being too racy or M2- nothing wrong with that but i like it toned down a bit. Black grill Mineral gray, carbon fiber mirror caps carbon fiber front splitter, lowered and 19's titanium gray color- NOT BLACK wheels. That will be my modern F22 ZHP

[ZilberGrau ZHP]

Originally Posted by wtfbrah

Not a big fan of tunes, since they void factory warranty and then you rely on Dinan or whoever you went to to warranty it. I know the dealer CAN help you out and warranty it anyways but again you're counting on that.

I'd rather do things like a factory LSD, MPE, maybe cosmetic mods like Xpel stealth. IMO unless you track regularly the car is already more than fast enough for the street. 0-60 in less than 5 seconds is enough to get anyone arrested.

^ True Story - there is no reason Gods green earth to mod that engine- I mean 4.2 is Fn fast- I remember my VW Scirocco 16V back in the day- (Wish I still ahd that car) 136 HP and I thought that car was AMAZING (it was) so the mods are to the looks and the the lowering/suspension- which with a better suspension (not that stock is "bad") it would be as fast an agile as ANYONE would need

[RoundelM3]

Originally Posted by DF

I don't think it's a bargain m car. The more I reead the more It's like a M240is than a real m car. It's biggest problem is it's too slow compared to the m240. It's got a body kit and bigger tires and a few bits here and there but there isn't enough to of a performance advantage over the m240. The gap between a m240 and a m2 is razor thin. Which I guess is reflected in the price. If the m2 was 58k or 60k it wouldn't sell. The m240 is a great car as is the m2. The m2 is track focused and the m240 street. But for all "it's not a proper m car" statements all that proper m badge buys less then a second on the track per the road amd track test. The 0-60 isn't a car length.

The M2 has a limited-slip differential, stiffer suspension, wider track and higher state of engine tuning. It's a bargain compared to an M3/M4 from a pricing standpoint. One magazine's test of any given car isn't indicative of its superiority or lack thereof against another car. The fact that the M2 has a long waiting list is indicative of just how popular it is regardless of whether or not it's that much quicker or handles better.

Maybe "entry-level" M-car is a better term?

[DF]

Originally Posted by roundel335

The M2 has a limited-slip differential, stiffer suspension, wider track and higher state of engine tuning. It's a bargain compared to an M3/M4 from a pricing standpoint. One magazine's test of any given car isn't indicative of its superiority or lack thereof against another car. The fact that the M2 has a long waiting list is indicative of just how popular it is regardless of whether or not it's that much quicker or handles better.

Maybe "entry-level" M-car is a better term?

I think it had a wait because it's new and a way for people who can't afford a m4 to say they have an m car and put them in a club which normally has a near 100k entrance fee. As 99% of them are leased almost anyone with a job can have one. It is a bargain compared to an m4. But it's closer to a m240 derivative.

The lsd is really only a need on the track. And even then not a big deal. Thr tune can be had for sub $300 to match the power on a m240. The ride is stiffer and the wheels bigger for the track. I agree that one test isn't definitive. But even on paper it's not a huge difference. Which I think is reflective in the price. Its an awesome car for sure. but some people view the performance difference as far more then it is.

[RoundelM3]

The M2 was one of the most anticipated new BMWs and orders were taken early. The production will probably ramp up some with its wide acceptance rate. Regardless of the M2's capabilities, the subject here is whether or not the M240i is the modern equivalent of the 2003-2005 E46 330i ZHP. I agree that it is, in that it has a higher state of engine and suspension tune than cars not equipped with the ZHP package. Thing is, there is no "normal" 240i without those additional features. But in the respect that it's a less-expensive alternative to an all-out M-car, it fits the category.

[DF]

Originally Posted by roundel335

The M2 was one of the most anticipated new BMWs and orders were taken early. The production will probably ramp up some with its wide acceptance rate. Regardless of the M2's capabilities, the subject here is whether or not the M240i is the modern equivalent of the 2003-2005 E46 330i ZHP. I agree that it is, in that it has a higher state of engine and suspension tune than cars not equipped with the ZHP package. Thing is, there is no "normal" 240i without those additional features. But in the respect that it's a less-expensive alternative to an all-out M-car, it fits the category.

It's a hard comparison since like you said there is no normal m240. I guess what I was trying to think out loud was the difference between a e46 zhp and a m3 is greater than the difference between a m240 ans an m2 which made me wonder would I consider the m2 aa the zhp of the group or the m240

I'm clearly over thinking this. :-)

[Grentz]

Originally Posted by ZilberGrau ZHP

Good point-but just as the ZHP was a "sportier look" also I cant wait to mod mine with the 19's and carbon fiber bits. The front splitter and lowering it an inch or so will make it look really tight IMO- racy without being too racy or M2- nothing wrong with that but i like it toned down a bit. Black grill Mineral gray, carbon fiber mirror caps carbon fiber front splitter, lowered and 19's titanium gray color- NOT BLACK wheels. That will be my modern F22 ZHP

Oh I agree, but those are easy accessories to put on and even available OEM.

I have the front splitter, rear diffuser w/MPE, more aggressive rear spoiler, black grills, all on BSM and it looks great IMO.

If I was in a warm climate (no winters/snow) I would do the side splitters as well.

[Viffermike]

My two cents:

BMW launched the M240i at the ideal time in the 2 Series lifecycle. Why do I say this? Because it knew that its drivetrain performance would rival the M2 -- and it knew that sales cannibalization would be minimal because waiting list-scale demand for the M2 would last at least a year, if not longer. See, by the time the 2018 LCI rolls around and the M240i is an even bigger temptation, the 2019 M2 -- which will essentially be its LCI, and I'm willing to bet will include a higher-performance model as well as a potential Bxx-based new base powerplant -- will be mere months away.

BMW isn't stupid. Well, OK: it can be, here and there -- but definitely not when it comes to potential sales.

As for the M240i being essentially the M2's equal: others have made the distinction that the M240i is a street car that's also good at a track, and the M2 is a track car that's street-able. This is the most apt comparison performance-wise. What vaults the M2 over the M240i is one simple (but actually complex) distinction: it's a true M car. That alone makes it desirable to those who don't give a rat's arse what it can actually do better or faster than an M240i. This distinction is multifaceted: from aesthetic and tactile upgrades (alcantara/carbon fiber, that OEM 4-pipe exhaust, fender flares, etc.) to social cache to resale/trade-in value.

Debate which is better all y'all want. When you get into non-performance-related factors both tangible and intangible, the M2 is by far the better bargain.

[DF]

Originally Posted by Viffermike

My two cents:

BMW launched the M240i at the ideal time in the 2 Series lifecycle. Why do I say this? Because it knew that its drivetrain performance would rival the M2 -- and it knew that sales cannibalization would be minimal because waiting list-scale demand for the M2 would last at least a year, if not longer. See, by the time the 2018 LCI rolls around and the M240i is an even bigger temptation, the 2019 M2 -- which will essentially be its LCI, and I'm willing to bet will include a higher-performance model as well as a potential Bxx-based new base powerplant -- will be mere months away.

BMW isn't stupid. Well, OK: it can be, here and there -- but definitely not when it comes to potential sales.

As for the M240i being essentially the M2's equal: others have made the distinction that the M240i is a street car that's also good at a track, and the M2 is a track car that's street-able. This is the most apt comparison performance-wise. What vaults the M2 over the M240i is one simple (but actually complex) distinction: it's a true M car. That alone makes it desirable to those who don't give a rat's arse what it can actually do better or faster than an M240i. This distinction is multifaceted: from aesthetic and tactile upgrades (alcantara/carbon fiber, that OEM 4-pipe exhaust, fender flares, etc.) to social cache to resale/trade-in value.

Debate which is better all y'all want. When you get into non-performance-related factors both tangible and intangible, the M2 is by far the better bargain.

I think its only a "true M car" because thats what BMW marketing department brands it. But when you compare it, its really not. Look at the differences between a true M car like the M4 vs a 435. The gap between those cars is far wider than the M240 and the M2. If they branded the M2 a M240IS, I dont think anyone would claim it was a true M car. Just my thoughts on it.

[Viffermike]

Originally Posted by DF

I think its only a "true M car" because thats what BMW marketing department brands it. But when you compare it, its really not. Look at the differences between a true M car like the M4 vs a 435. The gap between those cars is far wider than the M240 and the M2. If they branded the M2 a M240IS, I dont think anyone would claim it was a true M car. Just my thoughts on it.

But the majority who are on waiting lists for one right now don't really care about that. And BMW knows it. That's all that matters from BMW's corporate perspective.

Case in point: I think you're dead wrong regarding the 'M240is' theoretical. I think there'd be a certain number of fanboys who would scream "WHY ISN'T THIS BRANDED A FULL-ON M-CAR?!?!" because of the Sxx internals, the flares, the LSD, the DCT, the venting, the four-outlet exhaust, etc. My point is that from either direction, the "is it a true M car" debate would rage ...

... and most consumers don't care about that kind of minutiae. All they care about is that two-character model name with 'M' as the first character. That's precisely why BMW branded it as a full M car. Perceived value becomes real value in a situation like that, both in the eyes of BMW and the eyes of current, future, and potential M-car customers.

And guess what? That's what good branding allows for, and that's why "M" is arguably the strongest performance sub-brand in the world.