[Esteban15]

I want to be the first off the stop sign..its like a city drag race...each to their own...and one can ask where will be you racing your M235i...above 80 miles an hour?
Texas, Utah or...

[GoingTooFast]

Originally Posted by Lucky13

You are totally incoherent. Just because you say something doesn't make it true. Every car manufacturer in the world has increased the size of their cars. Look at the Camry, Civic, Accord or basically any car that's been on the market a while and they are all growing in size and weight. This includes Audi, Lexus, Mercedes and BMW and they combat this by introducing new entry level cars. Go back to the Mercedes board and quit trolling.

Me, totally incoherent?! You obviously haven't a clue about what I'm talking about... but looking at what your BMW ownership experience has been throughout the years with so many cars, which would be enough to qualify you as a fanboy, it comes without surprise that you naturally got used to increasingly heavier BMWs and you've ended up with a X1.

That's something I can't get used to, on the contrary... why do you think I, as an 1M owner, have turned my attention first to the Toyobaru and now to the beautifully fast Alfa Romeo 4C... you obviously are in no position to possibly understand what I'm talking about since you have BMW written all over your forehead. So, let me just show you a glimpse of it:

[italia]

Damn you for posting that Italian car porn. Just when I decided not to wait on the 4C, or spend that much $$$$$, you gotta post those pics. Thanks a lot pal.

[italia]

Ha! Just found the 27 page thread you started dedicated to the 4C. You're a bad man. A very bad man.

[bradleyland]

Originally Posted by GoingTooFast

Me, totally incoherent?!

He was totally off the mark with the incoherent comment. You're not incoherent, you're just obnoxious. You make plenty of fine points, but then you go overboard proclaiming your own opinion as fact, mixed in with walls of text and photos.

I'm not one of those "everything is subjective" people. I recognize that there is a consensus; refined by those with the taste to become reputable professionals in the field, but I'm not sure you're carrying around those kinds of credentials. Not to mention, there there isn't any kind of consensus on the CLA45 AMG versus M235i yet, because the cars haven't been around long enough for that to happen.

If you're interested in convincing anyone of your arguments, you should tone down your rhetoric a bit. If you're just interested in listening to the sound of your own voice, then carry on. I'm certainly not going one to stop a man from shouting in to the echo chamber.

[GoingTooFast]

Obnoxious is coming to a forum about cars and be able to dedicate a full post to someone without making a single meaningful remark about or related to cars over which we can discuss and learn from.

That definitely isn't my kind of credentials! So, if you don't mind I will carry on talking about cars hoping that some echoes of it can reach someone at BMW with the right credentials.

Talking of which, I would like to know who among the so-called insiders has better credentials here: SCOTT26 or ynguldyn?!

Because right now one says the upcoming M2 will have a 4-cyl. engine and the other says that it will be just an uprated version of the M235i engine.

If I would have to bet I would say ynguldyn is right and SCOTT26 is wrong, as it is my belief that the M2 won't bring anything new or special, just the ordinary power 'pissing' contest against Mercedes.

Again, this is the wrong path for BMW to follow, the same wrong path they took, so much for their regret, when they've decided to transform the Z4 into Baviera's SLK.

[Bam226]

Merc is hideous and looks like a Hyundai.

[335twins]

I gotta hand it to Mercedes, 2.0 liter 4 cylinder and they getting more hp than 3.0 6 cylinder engine.

[GoingTooFast]

Originally Posted by 335twins

I gotta hand it to Mercedes, 2.0 liter 4 cylinder and they getting more hp than 3.0 6 cylinder engine.

To put it all into perspective and show how ridiculous both the argument between a 4-cyl. and 6-cyl. engine is and a how far a power 'pissing' contest can take us, here it is how Audi rendered both the new M3/M4 and the AMG baby twins, let alone the M235i, a little, well... insignificant.

I don't believe this is the way to go in order to have better driver's cars... it's good looking though:

Audi TT quattro Sport Concept

Audi to presented a truly special show car at the 2014 Geneva Motor Show. The Audi TT quattro sport concept embodies the dynamic potential of the new Audi TT in its purest form. Its two-liter TFSI supplies 309 kW (420 hp), which the car puts on the road via the quattro all-wheel drive.

"With our Audi TT quattro sport concept show car, we wanted to demonstrate what the new TT's technology can do if you take it a step further," explains Prof. Dr. Ulrich Hackenberg, Board Member for Technical Development. "This car is designed for racing - an extreme driving machine for the motorsports enthusiasts among our customers."

Powertrain

The engine in the Audi TT quattro sport concept makes a powerful statement. The 2.0 TFSI has a power output of 309 kW (420 hp) at 6,700 rpm - a new benchmark in the two-liter category. Its specific output is 155 kW (210 hp) per liter of displacement - that's more than even 2001's victorious Le Mans R18 racing car, which was the first time Audi combined turbocharging with FSI direct gasoline injection. The four-cylinder engine has 450 Nm of torque (331.90 lb-ft) available in the engine speed range from 2,400 to 6,300 rpm. with over 300 Nm (221.27 lb-ft) already available at only 1,900 revs.

At a curb weight of 1,344 kilograms ([2,963.01 lb] without driver), the Audi TT quattro sport concept is an athlete in peak condition. Each hp supplied by the two-liter TFSI, which itself weighs under 150 kilograms (330.69 lb), needs to shift less than 3.2 kilograms (7.05 lb). The four-cylinder engine catapults the show car from 0 to 100 km/h (62.14 mph) in just 3.7 seconds.

When driving, the four-cylinder unit's pronouncedly sporty character is breathtaking. The turbocharged direct-injection engine responds immediately to the throttle and revs eagerly right up to the fuel cut-off at 7,200 rpm.

The 2.0 TFSI transfers its torque to a compact, three-shaft S tronic. The dual-clutch transmission shifts gears in split-seconds, adding its share to the show car's impressive acceleration.

The permanent quattro all-wheel drive delivers the power to the road. For optimum weight distribution, the hydraulically actuated, electronically controlled multi-disk clutch is located on the rear axle. The quattro drive actively controls distribution of the drive torque between the axles in milliseconds, thus adding to the car's dynamic handling

[ecaedus]

what's the boost gonna be like on that quattro concept? must be the highest a 4 pot has ever seen in a production road car. great potential from EA888 i guess.

i'm more interested in how well the new TTS will perform against the M235i, both sporty coupes with 300 if not more HP. dying to hear how the new Haldex gen 5 is on the TTS as well, from the press release it seems they tailored it to the TTS' specs.

http://digital.audi-presskit.de/en/g...audi-tts-coupe

oh and the weight is what amazed me the most, 2712lbs for euro specs. WOW

[Devon K]

Originally Posted by ecaedus

oh and the weight is what amazed me the most, 2712lbs for euro specs. WOW

Add a minimum of 100 lbs for the NA variant, this is always the case. And keep in mind it is a pretty tiny car - makes the Golf R look like a full-sized wagon by comparison.

Pricing here is ridiculous, the TTS in Canada will be roughly equal to the 2M, well above M235i levels.

[scanspeak]

The Merc is ugly now and will age like a washed-up movie star.

[GoingTooFast]

Originally Posted by ecaedus

what's the boost gonna be like on that quattro concept? must be the highest a 4 pot has ever seen in a production road car. great potential from EA888 i guess.

Actually, the Audi's engine maximum charge pressure is 1.8 bar just like in the CLA 45 AMG case, the difference is that the Audi's engine is allowed to rev to 7200 rpm while the CLA AMG engine ends 1000 rpm earlier.

Also, max. torque albeit equal in both cases goes from 2400 to 6300 rpm in the former and from 2250 to 5000 rpm in the latter.

[GoingTooFast]

Originally Posted by Devon K

Pricing here is ridiculous, the TTS in Canada will be roughly equal to the 2M, well above M235i levels.

Since you mentioned the M2, here's a footage of a FWD Seat - Volkswagen Group's brand - the Leon Cupra which is the size of a Golf beating the N'ring record for a FWD car with only 280 hp and proving that, as I've been defending, the M2 doesn't need more than 300 hp from a lighter 2.0L 4-cyl engine to be very fast as long as its EU weight (driver included) stays below 1400 kg.

Mind you that the claimed Porsche's official time for the 981 Cayman S PDK driven by in house test driver Walter Rohrl is 7:55 min.

That's quite impressive stuff from both the WTCC driver Jordi Gené and Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2 tyres. If a fuel-efficient M2 can't beat this time, what is worth for?!

[HowardM]

I have not owned a BMW since 1986. However, at this time, for an everyday driver, one of these two vehicles will get my purchase. After reading over 40 reviews of each, it is fascinating how the opinions of each go to such extremes. What will override just about everything else for me when I test drive them is the tightness, weight and accuracy of the steering visa vie the suspension and ride. Of course nothing can replace a drive test so I presume anything else I experience will have some effect.

Also: will someone in the board room of BMW tell their designers (or visa verse) that the stupid, ridiculous looking center brake light DOES NOT BELONG BELOW THE top of the BACK WINDOW!!!!!! Gosh how ugly and non cosmetic does this look. It really bothers me! (in the last 10-15 years BMW has had huge problems getting the BACK trunk designs of their cars, in general, to look really good; and still do). My opinion.

[Red Bread]

GTF, you're now admitting that the Cayman is faster than the 4C (as is a SEAT)?

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by HowardM

Also: will someone in the board room of BMW tell their designers (or visa verse) that the stupid, ridiculous looking center brake light DOES NOT BELONG BELOW THE top of the BACK WINDOW!!!!!! Gosh how ugly and non cosmetic does this look. It really bothers me! (in the last 10-15 years BMW has had huge problems getting the BACK trunk designs of their cars, in general, to look really good; and still do). My opinion.

Don't worry, when they tried to put it in the deck lid of the previous 1er, they cracked if you closed the trunk too hard. My M Coupe had it up high, which I do admit looks much cleaner. The i3 and most hatches have it high too, I'm not sure why they've stuck them low on the 2er.

[GoingTooFast]

The record time achieved (7:58.4 minutes) was possible thanks to the technological precision of the Leon CUPRA, equipped with the optional Performance Pack including Brembo high-performance brakes, specially-designed 19-inch alloy wheels, as well as the possibility of choosing Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2 tyres.

The average speed was 155 kph, with a top speed of 242 kph on the Tiergarten section of the circuit. The circuit surface was dry, with an ambient temperature of 10ºC and a track temperature of 8ºC. There is no doubt that such an outstanding record time has been achieved not only with an exceptional car but also thanks to a driver who was equal to the situation. Sitting behind the wheel of the Leon CUPRA 280 was the Spanish driver Jordi Gené, official SEAT driver between 2003 and 2010 during the European Touring Car Championships (ETCC) and World Touring Car Championships (WTCC) as well as others. He was also a member of the Leon CUPRA development team at Nürburgring.

Here's a picture of the Seat Leon Cupra with the optional Performance Pack... I think right now BMW is not up to the competition even from FWD only cars such as this Leon Cupra:

[Devon K]

The Cupra's lap time is made even more impressive by the fact that Gene was not a very good WTCC driver (check his record out on Wikipedia, we're talking back-marker territory much of the time).

[88stlgrym3]

touch call. on one hand you have a rwd coupe with a tried and true I6 twin turbo along with plenty of M goodies. on the other hand you have a full blown real AMG sedan with a turbo I4 that pumps out more hp and torque than M235, but is fwd. i don't know man, but i would get the M235i because it holds a slight edge on looks over CLA45, at least in my opinion

[overcoil]

The impressive thing about the CLA design/looks are the very low drag it creates which aids in high top speed and low wind noise.
The CLA250, which I test drove in the rain, I thought had an entertaining ride - much more involved then my GF 2012 Honda Accord - and more involved steering then the 2014 435 luxury trim I test drove, I though the 435 steering in the Luxury trim was actually very good and similar for me to the 2013-14 E class I test drove earlier that day.

[SW19]

Originally Posted by Bam226

Merc is hideous and looks like a Hyundai.

I agree and that interior design is brutal.