[Viffermike]

Well, I've figured it out: the breakdown of which 2-series with M Sport bodywork (228i M Sport, M235i) have a second auxiliary radiator behind the driver's side lower air intake, and which don't have the radiator. The breakdown doesn't just affect 2-series; it's an F30 (3-series)/F32 (4-series) phenomenon, too ... but for those of us F22 M Sport owners missing the second aux radiator, well ... many of us appear to have been gypped out of fog lights.

Yes, yes: let me explain:

First, thanks to the roughly 30 of you who participated in the VIN survey at this thread. The results crystallized the radiator-inclusion trends and led me to do research into the F30, which sealed the conclusions I've come to. (Second: for the initial explanation of the issue, see this thread.)

For F22s with M Sport bodywork (I'm ignoring base and Sport Line cars; they are not affected), the general breakdown is this:
- All Euro-spec cars (228i, M235i) have ONE aux radiator (passenger side).
- All convertibles (228i, M235i) regardless of market have ONE aux radiator.
- All U.S.-spec 2014 228i M Sport and M235i coupes have BOTH aux radiators.
- All U.S.-spec 2015 228i M Sport coupes with the Track Handling Package, as well as all 2015 M235i coupes, have BOTH aux radiators.
- All U.S.-spec 2015 228i M Sport coupes WITHOUT the Track Handling Package have ONE aux radiator.

For the 2015 model year, there was a shift regarding the inclusion of the second aux radiator that applies to all 2-series, 3-series, and 4-series cars with M Sport bodywork: the determinant shifted from the bodywork to the M Sport Brakes. On 2015 2-series cars, the M Sport Brakes are part of the Track Handling Package. On 2015 3- and 4-Series cars, the M Sport Brakes are a standalone option -- and packaged with the ferric gray wheels/non-RFT summer tires that the 2-series' THP is also packaged with -- that's only selectable after M Sport line is selected.

What tipped me off is the following passage from the F30/N20 Tech Guide (key phrase in red):
"The cooling module itself only comes in one variant. An auxiliary radiator (in the right wheel arch) is used in vehicles used in hot climate markets and in combination with the maximum speed optional equipment." This passage is nebulous, but it plainly alludes to the second aux radiator and is direct evidence that for 2015, the determinant for its inclusion on cars isn't just M Sport Brakes -- it's the high speed-rated tires that come with the brakes. Before 2015, the determinant was merely choosing M Sport line.

Here's the kicker: as many of us know, fog lights aren't available on 2-series M Sport models or the M235i. However, as discussed in this F30Forum thread, they re-appeared as standard equipment on 3-series M Sport models for 2015, but are deleted if the M Sport Brakes option is chosen. This is shown, both visually and informationally, on the bmwusa online builder for the 3 series.

So the questions now become: why did BMW make this equipment shift for 2015 N20 and N55 cars? And why did those of us who own 2015 228i M Sport cars without the THP not get fog lights standard, even though the M Sport line package for the 2-series and 3-series includes pretty much exactly the same things?

[Zooks527]

Originally Posted by Viffermike

This passage is nebulous, but it plainly alludes to the second aux radiator and is direct evidence that for 2015, the determinant for its inclusion on cars isn't just M Sport Brakes -- it's the high speed-rated tires that come with the brakes.

I heard this somewhere. I know I heard this somewhere. Where did I hear this?

Oh, yeah. Now I remember. http://www.2addicts.com/forums/showp...16&postcount=5

[bimmerfile]

Great job Mike..

[mfourn20]

To make more $$$$$$

[Supernaut]

Great detective work, Mike.

That's not an inexpensive add-on, so not as trivial as some of the deletions BMW makes for different markets or model years. I guess the logic goes that non-THP cars and convertibles aren't likely to end up on the track. If it's demonstrably unnecessary, consider it weight saved off the nose and a couple less hoses to leak. If the single aux radiator cars go into limp mode on the track, then it's a cheapskate fail on BMW's part. I guess time will tell.

I'm really surprised that BMW doesn't include these on Australian or Brazilian cars at all, which seems to be the case.

[Viffermike]

Originally Posted by Zooks527

I heard this somewhere. I know I heard this somewhere. Where did I hear this?

Oh, yeah. Now I remember. http://www.2addicts.com/forums/showp...16&postcount=5

Yup: you were half right. Thing is, 2-Series M Sport models get the higher 155MPH top speed limiter (not sure about the F30 or F32), so at least in 2015-think, the determinant is the OEM tires that your car comes with - NOT the actual speed capabilities of your M Sport build.

Personally I think it's crazy that the determinant is the one part of the car that's not warranted by BMW (and one that's easily and frequently upgradeable by the consumer), but what do I know? ...

[Zooks527]

Originally Posted by Viffermike

Yup: you were half right. Thing is, 2-Series M Sport models get the higher 155MPH top speed limiter (not sure about the F30 or F32), so at least in 2015-think, the determinant is the OEM tires that your car comes with - NOT the actual speed capabilities of your M Sport build.

Whoa. Half right? Let's look at the beginning and end of that link

Originally Posted by Zooks527

If history is any guide, it may well be a function of the speed rating on the tires shipped from the factory.

.. snip ..

Look at the speed rating on the tires on your car and on your friend's. What's the rating on each? Or, look on your Mulroney stickers. Does one have "840" listed in the options and the other not?

Could have saved a bunch of data mining.

Originally Posted by Viffermike

Personally I think it's crazy that the determinant is the one part of the car that's not warranted by BMW (and one that's easily and frequently upgradeable by the consumer), but what do I know? ...

Without question, their triggering on this is stupid. Likely driven by lawyers worried about lawsuits.




Now, one thing I don't understand is that you say all M235i coupes come with it.

Originally Posted by Viffermike

All .... 2015 M235i coupes, have BOTH aux radiators.

The speed rating on the A/S tires that BMW supplies is only 130 mph and if you get the square all-season option on an M235i, you don't get the 840 option increased speed limiter, so you limit out at 130 mph as well as having lower rated tires. That would seem to contradict the above, unless you didn't get any submissions from A/S tired M235i or M235xi models in your data set.

[gaijin]

Kudos Mike! Appreciate you taking the time and getting this sorted for us. This information will serve a long line of current and future 2er enthusiasts.

[caycep]

wish there was a way to test heat buildup on whatever component it was supposed to be cooling

[2msport]

wow. great work. I was very curious in all this. thanks man

[Grayhair]

I have a 2014 M235 with high speed tires yet only have one radiator that's on passenger side. My car was ordered before being built for shipment to Tennessee.

[Viffermike]

Originally Posted by Zooks527

Whoa. Half right? Let's look at the beginning and end of that link

Could have saved a bunch of data mining.

Without question, their triggering on this is stupid. Likely driven by lawyers worried about lawsuits.




Now, one thing I don't understand is that you say all M235i coupes come with it.

The speed rating on the A/S tires that BMW supplies is only 130 mph and if you get the square all-season option on an M235i, you don't get the 840 option increased speed limiter, so you limit out at 130 mph as well as having lower rated tires. That would seem to contradict the above, unless you didn't get any submissions from A/S tired M235i or M235xi models in your data set.

The reason I say 'half right' is because 2015 228i M Sports without THP do have the top speed limiter raised to 155 MPH - something that is not configurable with a square AS setup - but no second aux radiator. So, those cars are allowed the higher top speed capability but are shod with Y-rated RFTs tires on a staggered setup. The PSSs, IIRC, are W- or Z-rated.

As for a square-setup equipped M235i: actually, I have two in the database, both 2015 xDrives. They do not have 0840 (meaning a 130MPH top speed), but they DO have both radiators.

[moldcad]

Don't quite follow the logic: all EU M235is don't have the driver-side radiator (my doesn't either - production day March 30th, 2015), even though they come on Michelin PSSs and autobahnen in DE allow for speeds you Americans only can do on tracks. Why? I mean, I find front fogs very helpful, so the ideal config would be to have them plus an opening for the aux radiators on BOTH sides... BMW is clearly cutting the corners, I'm afraid....

[Zooks527]

Originally Posted by Viffermike

As for a square-setup equipped M235i: actually, I have two in the database, both 2015 xDrives. They do not have 0840 (meaning a 130MPH top speed), but they DO have both radiators.

OK, that just seems to shove the "WTF?" button in so hard it goes out the back of the panel. Only thought there is that after BMWUSA got so much bad press with overheating 335s back in 07/08, they didn't want to risk doing it again.

With the convertibles now showing up without them, I'd bet one of the kids there will be a decontenting point coming up where tire speed ratings will start triggering it on 235 coupes.

Originally Posted by moldcad

Don't quite follow the logic: all EU M235is don't have the driver-side radiator (my doesn't either - production day March 30th, 2015), even though they come on Michelin PSSs and autobahnen in DE allow for speeds you Americans only can do on tracks. Why? I mean, I find front fogs very helpful, so the ideal config would be to have them plus an opening for the aux radiators on BOTH sides... BMW is clearly cutting the corners, I'm afraid....

Yup. The big reason they gave for losing the fogs was the increased cooling the M235s "had" to have. Suddenly having the space available to put fogs back in (and not doing it) seems kind of cheap.

[mfourn20]

Originally Posted by Viffermike

The reason I say 'half right' is because 2015 228i M Sports without THP do have the top speed limiter raised to 155 MPH - something that is not configurable with a square AS setup - but no second aux radiator. So, those cars are allowed the higher top speed capability but are shod with Y-rated RFTs tires on a staggered setup. The PSSs, IIRC, are W- or Z-rated.

As for a square-setup equipped M235i: actually, I have two in the database, both 2015 xDrives. They do not have 0840 (meaning a 130MPH top speed), but they DO have both radiators.

PSS are Y rated.

[Glassjaw047]

To be honest....don't care much for the fog lights as they would decrease the aggressiveness of the front end look on the M235i/228i M-Sport....

[Thescout13]

Originally Posted by Viffermike

Yup: you were half right. Thing is, 2-Series M Sport models get the higher 155MPH top speed limiter (not sure about the F30 or F32), so at least in 2015-think, the determinant is the OEM tires that your car comes with - NOT the actual speed capabilities of your M Sport build.

Personally I think it's crazy that the determinant is the one part of the car that's not warranted by BMW (and one that's easily and frequently upgradeable by the consumer), but what do I know? ...

Wait... I'm confused... Are you saying that if we have the 2015 m sport without THP we don't have the 155 limiter...?

The reason I ask is because my 2015 M sport without THP and M Sport brakes but with staggered summer RFTs does go up to 155... And I don't have the second Aux Radiator...

I know this because I went this fast on an airstrip event by me with a gps....

Again maybe I was just confused when I read what you said... Could you break it down for me?

Could it be that because mine are summer RFT that's why I didn't get it and would have gotten it with Michelin PSS? Because my limiter is definitely 155...

[Viffermike]

Originally Posted by Thescout13

Wait... I'm confused... Are you saying that if we have the 2015 m sport without THP we don't have the 155 limiter...?

The reason I ask is because my 2015 M sport without THP and M Sport brakes but with staggered summer RFTs does go up to 155... And I don't have the second Aux Radiator...

I know this because I went this fast on an airstrip event by me with a gps....

Again maybe I was just confused when I read what you said... Could you break it down for me?

Could it be that because mine are summer RFT that's why I didn't get it and would have gotten it with Michelin PSS? Because my limiter is definitely 155...

That's correct, Scout13. Your car is just like mine: 2015 228i M Sport without THP and with 155MPH top speed and summer staggered Y-rated RFTs - but no second radiator.

There are two others like ours in my database, which I'll post to this thread as a .pdf in the next couple of days.

[Viffermike]

Originally Posted by mfourn20

PSS are Y rated.

Yowza. Now the radiator exclusion really doesn't make sense, and does seem to be tied to the M Sport Brakes more so than the tires.

[slingy]

In Australia, we don't get either on the 228i. I think the M235i has one though

[///MCFC]

Originally Posted by Grayhair

I have a 2014 M235 with high speed tires yet only have one radiator that's on passenger side. My car was ordered before being built for shipment to Tennessee.

this is interesting. OP, care to speculate?

[B.a.f]

Originally Posted by slingy

In Australia, we don't get either on the 228i. I think the M235i has one though

Same here in France.
I drive a 228i M Sport edition and got no auxiliary radiator at all. Fog lights are standard in my country on this model