[tccox]

Originally Posted by ocN55

Unless you drive for money, MT is the way to go

Forget that auto is faster, listen to your heart

Not really sure 1/10 of a second difference 0 to 60 justifies the use of the word "Faster" . Not sure how BMW determines 0 to 60 but seems like that 1/10 could go away pretty quickly depending on options/driver/Temp/altitude etc etc.

[eBlue2]

Not to mention that Stop/Start basically prevents the car from stalling. It just fires right back up again.

Originally Posted by wjones14

A heavy clutch pedal would help the argument about not wanting to drive a manual in traffic every day, but has there ever been a clutch with lighter effort than the M235i clutch? The clutch effort in my Mini is truck-like in comparison. Honestly, the clutch effort is not much more than the gas pedal effort in the BMW!

Given the light clutch and the hill-hold assist, this would be a pretty simple car to learn to drive stick with (for those on the fence about teaching their spouse).

[opfreak]

Originally Posted by Sportstick

No, not meant that way...I just edited the post when I realized how it might sound. It's meant to address the pleasure some get from having to be more active all the time, which a manual requires and an automatic does not. Similar to some who get off on certain activities or sports to get their neurotransmitters flowing and light up their PET scans. For some here, having all four limbs in constant action has that effect, which is not smarter or less, better or worse...just different, and why the two groups will never feel the other's feeling regardless of facts about performance and fuel economy. Sorry for the vague writing the first time.

[ocN55]

Originally Posted by tccox

Not really sure 1/10 of a second difference 0 to 60 justifies the use of the word "Faster" . Not sure how BMW determines 0 to 60 but seems like that 1/10 could go away pretty quickly depending on options/driver/Temp/altitude etc etc.

Eh.... In terms of marketing it's faster

[Viffermike]

Originally Posted by Sportstick

For some of us, none of the benefits you cite are relevant and "better" is a subjective relative term. Your argument is clearly applicable to you and others who share your point of view, and inapplicable to the rest of us who value a higher degree of physical and mental involvement represented by the third pedal and more active right arm. (In re-reading this, it could be interpreted as a snide comment about being smarter...it's not meant that way...it's meant to mean higher neurological stimulation and involvement....constantly more to have to do...which is somehow a pleasing effect.)

I certainly didn't take it that way. I was -- and still am, to an extent -- a fan of the manual for certain uses. I just don't have the manual-or-nothing attitude I used to have partially because I'm open to the technical advancements of gearboxes as they apply to the driving enthusiast. Simply put, good autos now outperform even the best manuals, to the extent that the highest-performing vehicles in existence, driven by the best drivers on the planet, now use them more than not.

In certain cars, IMO, autos with both full-auto and manual modes can make the complete driving experience better. For that reason as well as others, I made my choice the 8AT in my Zweier. I don't begrudge those that still prefer manuals at all. However, I think it's shortsighted to discount an auto out of a matter of course -- and I can say that without reservation because I used to be one of those that did just that.

[BarryJI]

Well said! Also, regardless of general personal preferences, certain types of transmission suit the way certain cars drive. The 8AT suits the 228i with THP very well.

[Pyewacket69]

Obtain lower back pain issues (like I have) and the idea of an auto in a daily driver starts making a lot more sense.

[one1er]

People keep stating the obvious...
0-60, fuel economy, city driving, driver involvement, fun etc.
people keep getting "offended" by others preferences and opinions...

There's a marketing story about a new product...a cake...just add water, stick it in the oven and voila!
Didn't sell shit...why? Too easy! Women felt they were cheating when presenting that cake to their loved ones...what did the company do? Well now you add water AND an egg! Success!

It's ok,why wouldn't you want to do an easy cake that always comes out right with the same taste?! It's fine if you do! But a chef wouldn't want that! A chef would select all the ingredients and take pleasure in excelling at the whole process!

For me, and many drivers, it's the same story with the transmission! We love mastering it, we take pleasure in doing it ourselves, in getting it perfectly done, up or down, driving fast or even in town. We just find it fun and take great satisfaction in it.

Again, it's fine whatever each of us choose, no need to take offence! If auto makes your day, fine...if manual makes your day, fine! Just let everyone get their take, it's a forum!!!

[335BOY]

Originally Posted by Viffermike

I certainly didn't take it that way. I was -- and still am, to an extent -- a fan of the manual for certain uses. I just don't have the manual-or-nothing attitude I used to have partially because I'm open to the technical advancements of gearboxes as they apply to the driving enthusiast. Simply put, good autos now outperform even the best manuals, to the extent that the highest-performing vehicles in existence, driven by the best drivers on the planet, now use them more than not.

In certain cars, IMO, autos with both full-auto and manual modes can make the complete driving experience better. For that reason as well as others, I made my choice the 8AT in my Zweier. I don't begrudge those that still prefer manuals at all. However, I think it's shortsighted to discount an auto out of a matter of course -- and I can say that without reservation because I used to be one of those that did just that.

Good post but I am going to drive MT until they arent available in a car that I like. My last BMW was AT and I hated the wat the traction control shut everything off and it was simply boring. Outperform? On a racetrack, I agree but the most sophisticated dbl clutch transmission is just an automatic transmission really.

[Supernaut]

Originally Posted by tccox

Not really sure 1/10 of a second difference 0 to 60 justifies the use of the word "Faster" . Not sure how BMW determines 0 to 60 but seems like that 1/10 could go away pretty quickly depending on options/driver/Temp/altitude etc etc.

I'll bet most AT drivers come closer to their 0-60 time than MT drivers come to those published times. I still love my MT.

[335BOY]

Originally Posted by Supernaut

I'll bet most AT drivers come closer to their 0-60 time than MT drivers come to those published times. I still love my MT.

good point!. To Get max out of MT requires some abuse.............

[Alpine F31]

Originally Posted by 335BOY

...To Get max out of MT requires some abuse.............

And SKILL

[pocoyo_3]

Couldn't agree more with Silverado's original statement

[tccox]

Originally Posted by Alpine F31

And SKILL

And that's why I love my manual

[vintage42]

Originally Posted by silverado

... Manual mode is a poor substitute for me because it's much harder to keep track of what gear you are in compared to MT and due to the higher number of gears with their relatively close ratios...

I test drove a 328i 6MT and a 320i 8AT and noticed the same thing. I thought manual mode would be the best of both worlds, but it required constant concentration to avoid its shift notifications. I wished that manual mode just used 5 gears (say drop 3, 5 and 7) and could turn off the notifications.

[1ChrisRuck]

My two previous BMW's were manual shift, my 370Z was manual shift, my two 350Z's were manual shift, my C6 Corvette was manual shift, my Shelby Cobra was manual shift. There are many other cars I've owned with the majority of them being manual shift. I loved my manual shift cars because they were so much fun to drive.

I originally ordered a 228i M-Sport with manual transmission. I cancelled that order and placed a new order for an M235i with the 8-Speed automatic transmission. In all honesty, I have no regrets. Not a single one. I was worried prior to taking delivery that I may have some regrets getting an automatic since I am such a fan of manual transmissions.

BMW got it right with the 8-Speed transmisson in the M235i. Provided that you muninpulate the gears using the paddle shifters and or the gear selector as engineered to do, you'll love it. Well anyway I love it. It's difficult to park this car. I don't want to stop driving it. It's a blast to drive, ridiculously fun!

For me, I'm not going to allow myself to psych myself into believing that the 8-Speed automatic is not as awesome as it is simply because in general automatic transmissons are not suppose to be this much fun performance wise.

When it comes to the M235i either transmission is great. And I'm not just saying that. If I truly felt the 8-Speed was not awesome, I'd say so. I'd scream it the loudest. I'm not in love the automatic in my M235i simply because I have one. I'm in love with it because of the stupid smile it puts on my face everytime I play with the transmission in traffic, cornering, a U-turn or simply downshifting coming to a red light, that's why.

Regardless I hate to hear that someone is unhappy with their transmission choice. That's unfortunate. I'd contact my dealer and ask them to sell the car on consignment provided that you order another one, this time manual transmission. A good dealer will hopefully do it.

[sstarrx3]

Yawn...

[vintage42]

Originally Posted by 1ChrisRuck

My two previous BMW's were manual shift, my 370Z was manual shift, my two 350Z's were manual shift, my C6 Corvette was manual shift, my Shelby Cobra was manual shift. There are many other cars I've owned with the majority of them being manual shift. I loved my manual shift cars because they were so much fun to drive... placed a new order for an M235i with the 8-Speed automatic transmission. In all honesty, I have no regrets. Not a single one...BMW got it right with the 8-Speed transmisson in the M235i. Provided that you muninpulate the gears using the paddle shifters and or the gear selector as engineered to do, you'll love it... I'm in love with it because of the stupid smile it puts on my face everytime I play with the transmission in traffic, cornering, a U-turn or simply downshifting coming to a red light, that's why....

No yawn here. That's the best 8AT testimonial I have heard yet.

[BarryJI]

Originally Posted by 1ChrisRuck

BMW got it right with the 8-Speed transmisson in the M235i. Provided that you muninpulate the gears using the paddle shifters and or the gear selector as engineered to do, you'll love it. Well anyway I love it. It's difficult to park this car. I don't want to stop driving it. It's a blast to drive, ridiculously fun!

For me, I'm not going to allow myself to psych myself into believing that the 8-Speed automatic is not as awesome as it is simply because in general automatic transmissons are not suppose to be this much fun performance wise.

When it comes to the M235i either transmission is great. And I'm not just saying that. If I truly felt the 8-Speed was not awesome, I'd say so. I'd scream it the loudest. I'm not in love the automatic in my M235i simply because I have one. I'm in love with it because of the stupid smile it puts on my face everytime I play with the transmission in traffic, cornering, a U-turn or simply downshifting coming to a red light, that's why.

Absolutely right. Many, but by no means all, the complainers about the 8AT are bringing their pre-existing prejudices about automatic transmissions to the 228i/235i 8AT. The most neanderthal of these persist in calling this AT a "slushbox". As ChrisRuck says, and he is completely right, the 8AT works best when the driver knows how, and when, to use paddles or sequential shifter in harmony with it.

[doublevanosrc]

I've had nothing but manuals most of my driving life but love or hate it the 8AT is a masterpiece. Sounds like the OP misses rowing his own gears.

Check out those swap a lease sites you never know you might get lucky.

[Xiaoxi]

I came from an 8ZF F30. I don't think anyone can deny that this is a really good transmission...in the sense that it shifts really well with the paddles and has the appropriate gear depending on your throttle input if you leave it in full auto.

With that said, I knew I wanted a manual for the next car after practicing on an MX5. My right hand and left foot started getting restless. "Point and shoot" daily driving became incredibly dull. Now with the 6MT, every drive is a wonderful challenge. I love practicing downshifts, hearing that blip, being rewarded for a perfect rev match. I love manipulating the shifter, it makes any movement feel more substantial.

Granted, I'm unable / unwilling to launch like I did in the 8AT from a stop, but otherwise it's a lot more fun and engaging. Paddle shifters definitely have their place...I get good use out of them in sim racing on a track, but very rarely will I encounter that in reality.

[akuan99]

Originally Posted by Xiaoxi

With that said, I knew I wanted a manual for the next car after practicing on an MX5. My right hand and left foot started getting restless. "Point and shoot" daily driving became incredibly dull. Now with the 6MT, every drive is a wonderful challenge. I love practicing downshifts, hearing that blip, being rewarded for a perfect rev match. I love manipulating the shifter, it makes any movement feel more substantial.

I've had similar experience too.
I also developed a bad habit of sliding my rigth had back and forth on my trouser which was pointed out by my wife because horrible noise it made.
Now that I'm back driving MT for 8 months my left leg and right arm are back to normal