Leasing company vs. Dealership?

BMW335iOn18s · 11-21-2014, 04:15 PM

Hey guys,

I've decided that I am ready to put a deposit down for an M235i. I've contacted 8 dealers about getting the car for invoice. 7 said no, one said yes. That one dealer that said yes quoted me $525 a month for a $44,750 car with 39 months and 10k a year. $2000 due at signing. A friend of a friend has a leasing company and quoted me $505 a month with $1800 due at signing for the same car. Now, when i said that to the dealership, they said they can't touch a leasing companies quote and that I might have issues going through a leasing company when it comes to servicing the car? What kind of BS stories are they making up? Is there any truth to this?

Thanks,
Dave

hyperzulu · 11-21-2014, 05:00 PM

I'm going to go out on a limb and say neither of those are invoice. I mean it's not much a limb... Haven't seen anyone getting invoice on US deliveries yet, so unless you have a connection, you're probably not going to get that. Demand/allocation ratio is still too high.

Read over the more recent deals on the post your deal thread to see what's typical right now and aim for that... work with the appropriate figures for leasing.

As for your question, it is BS. You buy a brand new BMW and you can service it anywhere. I don't know any service center that is willing to turn down easy money just to help the sales department push their agenda.

chaswyck1 · 11-21-2014, 05:30 PM

Maybe things are very different in Philly, but in SoCal you can forget invoice or anything remotely close to it. There are no discounts off MSRP at all on an M235i, period, even from board sponsors. You're lucky if you can find one to test drive. There are literally a few on dealer lots in all of Southern CA and most dealers don't even have one (or a 228i for that matter).

pdubb · 11-21-2014, 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chaswyck@yahoo.com

Maybe things are very different in Philly, but in SoCal you can forget invoice or anything remotely close to it. There are no discounts off MSRP at all on an M235i, period, even from board sponsors. You're lucky if you can find one to test drive. There are literally a few on dealer lots in all of Southern CA and most dealers don't even have one (or a 228i for that matter).

I beg to differ slightly on that. I just got my M235i two days ago here in SoCal and it was MSRP of 50950 and I got it for 46950.

Now I will say I had to shop around about 4-5 dealerships to find the right one and this type of deal. But most other dealerships I went to were willing to discount off MSRP slightly. So you can get somewhat of a discount off MSRP, especially if you go in at the end of the month.

As far as the leasing service goes, they may be spouting off the issue with service on the car because when I got my car they said if I trade the lease to someone else or sell it, they cannot use the free service.
How true that is, I don't know. But maybe thats what he's trying to scare you with on that outside Leasing Company.

I bet the service would still be there if you DID go with the 3rd party leasing company though as its under your name when you purchase the vehicle as well as the leasing company.

BMW335iOn18s · 11-21-2014, 06:30 PM

Well, it's 7-8% off of MSRP, which is right about invoice. I'm using a lease calculator and a 60% residual. The 525 a month is $400 above invoice, and the $505 is $270 below. Thanks for your help. If any of you want to test drive a 6 speed manual, Open Road BMW has one right now. Just a heads up.

BEM-S4 · 11-21-2014, 07:02 PM

Service you won't have an issue. Where you will have an issue is if you're getting another BMW post-lease. If you do, the leading company can't waive your termination fee, forgive you for extra miles, etc. like BMWFS can.

mike@tpc · 11-21-2014, 07:47 PM

but on the other hand, if you want to buy the car at lease end, or even buy it to trade it in, a lease company is much more likely to renegotiate the buyout price than BMWFS. I know when I had a saab, people who leased through Chase were negotiating 3-4000 less than their residual to buy it. But, my Saab was also less than the 3 year residual one year into the lease

BMW335iOn18s · 11-21-2014, 10:02 PM

The leasing company uses BMW FS, so i don't think it will be a problem.

kerm1t · 11-22-2014, 01:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BMW335iOn18s

Well, it's 7-8% off of MSRP, which is right about invoice. I'm using a lease calculator and a 60% residual. The 525 a month is $400 above invoice, and the $505 is $270 below. Thanks for your help. If any of you want to test drive a 6 speed manual, Open Road BMW has one right now. Just a heads up.

got 95% same deal as you except i put 0 down. always try to avoid it

espo · 11-22-2014, 06:08 AM

I think the service component (or essentially free maintenance for 4 years), may be dependent on how the deal is structured with the 3rd party leasing company. I know BMW has stopped allowing the transfer of the free maintenance from the original owner to a second owner in those 4 years. So there are a couple of scenarios here:

The deal may be structured such that you are buying the car from BMW and then immediately selling it to the 3rd party leasing company. In that case the leasing company is the 2nd owner and therefore the free maintenance is dropped.

Another thing may be that the free maintenance may only be available to the original owner of the car, or a leasee through BMWFS (I'd try and find the fine print on that).

If either of those are the case, then I can't see a reason to not be able to get it serviced, but you'll just be paying for it.

timsev · 11-22-2014, 10:30 AM

Coming from years of experience with BMW and leasing companies, the dealer can ALWAYS beat the leasing company. The leasing company is just a middle man and have to make money somewhere. They are charging you somewhere in the deal if you know it or not. Just go directly to the source(dealer) and ask them to be totally transparent. An honest dealer will have no problem showing you all their cards.

That being said, you have to let the dealer make a little profit. You can't expect them to sell you the car at invoice, and use base money factor, base acquisition fee, all on a car they don't need to discount heavily.

My suggestion is to offer the dealer $500 over invoice, base money factor (.00130), $725 acquisition fee, and no bogus charges on top. Have them explain everything and it should be easy.

hyperzulu · 11-22-2014, 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BMW335iOn18s

Well, it's 7-8% off of MSRP, which is right about invoice. I'm using a lease calculator and a 60% residual. The 525 a month is $400 above invoice, and the $505 is $270 below. Thanks for your help. If any of you want to test drive a 6 speed manual, Open Road BMW has one right now. Just a heads up.

No. At invoice with $2k down plus tax (6%), you would have a monthly of around $430. Your down payment is their profit. You're clearly not aware of the invoice price or your math is wrong.

BMW335iOn18s · 11-22-2014, 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hyperzulu

No. At invoice with $2k down plus tax (6%), you would have a monthly of around $430. Your down payment is their profit. You're clearly not aware of the invoice price or your math is wrong.

What is invoice price on these cars? Please show me how you got $430, that way I can correct my mistake.

I thought it was .92 x $44750. I'm not putting any money down, the $1800 is the cost of inceptions.

hyperzulu · 11-22-2014, 03:56 PM

$41,235 is invoice. I got $485 a month at invoice with 6% tax included. Do those monthly figures you were quoted include tax? Is it 6% at your zip code?

hyperzulu · 11-22-2014, 04:04 PM

Here is the breakdown at invoice. I used cap cost reduction to simulate discount, even though a down payment can be taxed, this calculator doesn't do that.

mmmmm235i · 11-22-2014, 04:59 PM

Taxes and fees were part of the figure ultimately quoted to me when I picked up my car. Good deals can certainly be had with patient negotiation, but if you have a friend that can help out than good for you it always helped. That being said I do have a very close friend who is relatively high up and BMWNA and he got me an appointment to discuss my lease with the general manager of a local dealership. Like someone above said, if you ask they should be transparent, but they need to make a couple bucks at the end of the day, NO MATTER WHAT. The general manager showed me the numbers on the BMW system and the best he can do with all possible incentives. The negotiated price on my car was similiar to yours and I have 15k miles for 570. Then he threw me an extra 1500 for my trade in over 3 other dealers. This was back in may so I'm sure these cars have become a little more available so where you are at seems good.
As far as the leasing company, I'm not so familiar with that, but you are paying for it somewhere and unless you are knowledgable about contract language you can easily be confused. If you are a savy negotiator Im sure you can make it a better deal depending on your plans for the car down the road, that being no one can give you a better deal than the source itself (BMWFS). I can't imagine when buying or leasing a 50k car the couple bucks over the course of ownership is worth the headache of dealing with an outside company, especially on a depreciating asset.

BMW335iOn18s · 11-22-2014, 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hyperzulu

Here is the breakdown at invoice. I used cap cost reduction to simulate discount, even though a down payment can be taxed, this calculator doesn't do that.

Tax is 9% for my area.

hyperzulu · 11-22-2014, 05:56 PM

K. I got nothing else. It sounds like either way is a good deal. Somehow your friend is able to negotiate the sale at invoice with some dealer with lower fees.

iamdabest1 · 11-30-2014, 09:18 AM

You guys are all wrong , you can lease a car through a leasing company , you will still get free service , still get loaners and when your lease is done still get forgiven for mileage overage and scratches if you get another Bmw .. It's like getting a Bmw from one dealer then going to another , leasing companies work with a Bmw dealership to get cars ! Don't let them scare you away ..

dan84 · 11-30-2014, 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BMW335iOn18s

Hey guys,

I've decided that I am ready to put a deposit down for an M235i. I've contacted 8 dealers about getting the car for invoice. 7 said no, one said yes. That one dealer that said yes quoted me $525 a month for a $44,750 car with 39 months and 10k a year. $2000 due at signing. A friend of a friend has a leasing company and quoted me $505 a month with $1800 due at signing for the same car.

I have no previous experience with leasing, so I can't answer your question, but my deal is very similar to yours. The MSRP of the M235 I had built was 45k, and with less than $1K due at signing my payment will be $515/mo for 39mo/10K miles. I thought mine was a good deal, it was the best deal I could get after working with 6 south Florida dealerships. Good luck, go birds!

11-21-2014, 04:15 PM	#1
BMW335iOn18s Resident BMW Fanboy 259 Rep 866 Posts Drives: F82 CS SMB Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Philadelphia, PA iTrader: (0)	Leasing company vs. Dealership? Hey guys, I've decided that I am ready to put a deposit down for an M235i. I've contacted 8 dealers about getting the car for invoice. 7 said no, one said yes. That one dealer that said yes quoted me $525 a month for a $44,750 car with 39 months and 10k a year. $2000 due at signing. A friend of a friend has a leasing company and quoted me $505 a month with $1800 due at signing for the same car. Now, when i said that to the dealership, they said they can't touch a leasing companies quote and that I might have issues going through a leasing company when it comes to servicing the car? What kind of BS stories are they making up? Is there any truth to this? Thanks, Dave __________________ Current: '20 F82 M4cs SMB / '13 640i M-Sport Carbon Black Past: F30 330xi Luxury Line / F22 M235i 6MT / E92 335i / E46 330ci / E36 328i 5MT Last edited by BMW335iOn18s; 11-21-2014 at 06:32 PM..
	Appreciate 0 Tweet Quote

11-21-2014, 05:00 PM	#2
hyperzulu Colonel 701 Rep 2,337 Posts Drives: 2015 M235i Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: Los Angeles iTrader: (0)	I'm going to go out on a limb and say neither of those are invoice. I mean it's not much a limb... Haven't seen anyone getting invoice on US deliveries yet, so unless you have a connection, you're probably not going to get that. Demand/allocation ratio is still too high. Read over the more recent deals on the post your deal thread to see what's typical right now and aim for that... work with the appropriate figures for leasing. As for your question, it is BS. You buy a brand new BMW and you can service it anywhere. I don't know any service center that is willing to turn down easy money just to help the sales department push their agenda. __________________
	Appreciate 0 Quote

11-21-2014, 05:30 PM	#3
chaswyck1 Lieutenant 76 Rep 506 Posts Drives: 2015 228i Valencia Orange Join Date: Oct 2014 Location: Southern CA iTrader: (0)	Maybe things are very different in Philly, but in SoCal you can forget invoice or anything remotely close to it. There are no discounts off MSRP at all on an M235i, period, even from board sponsors. You're lucky if you can find one to test drive. There are literally a few on dealer lots in all of Southern CA and most dealers don't even have one (or a 228i for that matter).
	Appreciate 0 Quote

11-21-2014, 06:30 PM	#5
BMW335iOn18s Resident BMW Fanboy 259 Rep 866 Posts Drives: F82 CS SMB Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Philadelphia, PA iTrader: (0)	Well, it's 7-8% off of MSRP, which is right about invoice. I'm using a lease calculator and a 60% residual. The 525 a month is $400 above invoice, and the $505 is $270 below. Thanks for your help. If any of you want to test drive a 6 speed manual, Open Road BMW has one right now. Just a heads up. __________________ Current: '20 F82 M4cs SMB / '13 640i M-Sport Carbon Black Past: F30 330xi Luxury Line / F22 M235i 6MT / E92 335i / E46 330ci / E36 328i 5MT
	Appreciate 0 Quote

11-21-2014, 07:02 PM	#6
BEM-S4 Major General 4516 Rep 8,942 Posts Drives: Dinan M235, Dinan Sport Wagon Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Philadelphia iTrader: (5)	Service you won't have an issue. Where you will have an issue is if you're getting another BMW post-lease. If you do, the leading company can't waive your termination fee, forgive you for extra miles, etc. like BMWFS can. __________________ 2022 Macan S 2016 F31 328i xDrive Sport Wagon 2006 E46 330ci ZHP Convertible
	Appreciate 0 Quote

11-21-2014, 07:47 PM	#7
mike@tpc Second Lieutenant 51 Rep 269 Posts Drives: white M235i Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: United States iTrader: (0)	but on the other hand, if you want to buy the car at lease end, or even buy it to trade it in, a lease company is much more likely to renegotiate the buyout price than BMWFS. I know when I had a saab, people who leased through Chase were negotiating 3-4000 less than their residual to buy it. But, my Saab was also less than the 3 year residual one year into the lease
	Appreciate 0 Quote

11-21-2014, 10:02 PM	#8
BMW335iOn18s Resident BMW Fanboy 259 Rep 866 Posts Drives: F82 CS SMB Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Philadelphia, PA iTrader: (0)	The leasing company uses BMW FS, so i don't think it will be a problem. __________________ Current: '20 F82 M4cs SMB / '13 640i M-Sport Carbon Black Past: F30 330xi Luxury Line / F22 M235i 6MT / E92 335i / E46 330ci / E36 328i 5MT
	Appreciate 0 Quote

11-22-2014, 06:08 AM	#10
espo Captain 10 Rep 715 Posts Drives: 2014 M235i Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Sugar Land TX iTrader: (0)	I think the service component (or essentially free maintenance for 4 years), may be dependent on how the deal is structured with the 3rd party leasing company. I know BMW has stopped allowing the transfer of the free maintenance from the original owner to a second owner in those 4 years. So there are a couple of scenarios here: The deal may be structured such that you are buying the car from BMW and then immediately selling it to the 3rd party leasing company. In that case the leasing company is the 2nd owner and therefore the free maintenance is dropped. Another thing may be that the free maintenance may only be available to the original owner of the car, or a leasee through BMWFS (I'd try and find the fine print on that). If either of those are the case, then I can't see a reason to not be able to get it serviced, but you'll just be paying for it. __________________ E46 325xi Oxford Green/Sand Leatherette/Myrtle Wood Auto ZCW - Retired E90 330xi Mystic Blue/Black Leather/Aluminum 6sp Manual ZSP/ZPP/ZCW/CA - Retired F22 M235i Mineral Gray/Red Leather/Aluminum 6sp Manual ZPP/ZTP
	Appreciate 0 Quote

11-22-2014, 10:30 AM	#11
timsev First Lieutenant 24 Rep 334 Posts Drives: BMW Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: IL iTrader: (0)	Coming from years of experience with BMW and leasing companies, the dealer can ALWAYS beat the leasing company. The leasing company is just a middle man and have to make money somewhere. They are charging you somewhere in the deal if you know it or not. Just go directly to the source(dealer) and ask them to be totally transparent. An honest dealer will have no problem showing you all their cards. That being said, you have to let the dealer make a little profit. You can't expect them to sell you the car at invoice, and use base money factor, base acquisition fee, all on a car they don't need to discount heavily. My suggestion is to offer the dealer $500 over invoice, base money factor (.00130), $725 acquisition fee, and no bogus charges on top. Have them explain everything and it should be easy.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

11-22-2014, 03:56 PM	#14
hyperzulu Colonel 701 Rep 2,337 Posts Drives: 2015 M235i Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: Los Angeles iTrader: (0)	$41,235 is invoice. I got $485 a month at invoice with 6% tax included. Do those monthly figures you were quoted include tax? Is it 6% at your zip code?
	Appreciate 0 Quote

11-22-2014, 04:04 PM	#15
hyperzulu Colonel 701 Rep 2,337 Posts Drives: 2015 M235i Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: Los Angeles iTrader: (0)	Here is the breakdown at invoice. I used cap cost reduction to simulate discount, even though a down payment can be taxed, this calculator doesn't do that. Attached Images __________________
	Appreciate 0 Quote

11-22-2014, 04:59 PM	#16
mmmmm235i Captain 104 Rep 835 Posts Drives: 440xi GC Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: NY -> CO iTrader: (12)	Taxes and fees were part of the figure ultimately quoted to me when I picked up my car. Good deals can certainly be had with patient negotiation, but if you have a friend that can help out than good for you it always helped. That being said I do have a very close friend who is relatively high up and BMWNA and he got me an appointment to discuss my lease with the general manager of a local dealership. Like someone above said, if you ask they should be transparent, but they need to make a couple bucks at the end of the day, NO MATTER WHAT. The general manager showed me the numbers on the BMW system and the best he can do with all possible incentives. The negotiated price on my car was similiar to yours and I have 15k miles for 570. Then he threw me an extra 1500 for my trade in over 3 other dealers. This was back in may so I'm sure these cars have become a little more available so where you are at seems good. As far as the leasing company, I'm not so familiar with that, but you are paying for it somewhere and unless you are knowledgable about contract language you can easily be confused. If you are a savy negotiator Im sure you can make it a better deal depending on your plans for the car down the road, that being no one can give you a better deal than the source itself (BMWFS). I can't imagine when buying or leasing a 50k car the couple bucks over the course of ownership is worth the headache of dealing with an outside company, especially on a depreciating asset. __________________ 2020 X3M Comp., Alpine White on Black/Beige RETIRED: 2018 440xi GC, Carbon Black on Black/Blue 2014 M235i Black on Black, DINAN Stage 2
	Appreciate 0 Quote

11-22-2014, 05:56 PM	#18
hyperzulu Colonel 701 Rep 2,337 Posts Drives: 2015 M235i Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: Los Angeles iTrader: (0)	K. I got nothing else. It sounds like either way is a good deal. Somehow your friend is able to negotiate the sale at invoice with some dealer with lower fees. __________________
	Appreciate 0 Quote

11-30-2014, 09:18 AM	#19
iamdabest1 Second Lieutenant 128 Rep 263 Posts Drives: 2011 m3 dct Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: nyc iTrader: (0)	You guys are all wrong , you can lease a car through a leasing company , you will still get free service , still get loaners and when your lease is done still get forgiven for mileage overage and scratches if you get another Bmw .. It's like getting a Bmw from one dealer then going to another , leasing companies work with a Bmw dealership to get cars ! Don't let them scare you away ..
	Appreciate 0 Quote