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      03-21-2014, 10:08 AM   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alpinweiss 335i View Post
Perfect. Thanks for the detailed explanation. That makes sense now.
You are very welcome. Glad it was helpful!

Quote:
Originally Posted by scutts View Post
Well. In NYC, M3 with winters here. Winter sucked and I got stuck few times. It's ignorant to say that AWD does not have an obvious advantage in winter driving.
AWD helps with getting going from a stop.

Once the car is moving (turning, braking, etc.), it's all about the tires. An old C230 (less than 200 horsepower) with summer tires won't move more than a few feet up a gentle, snow-covered incline. My C63 with a square (and narrow) Bridgestone Blizzak setup cuts throw heavy snow like it's nothing.

Proper winter tires on a RWD car make an enormous difference, even in dry weather handling, once the thermostat starts reading below 50 degrees Fahrenheit.
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      03-21-2014, 10:25 AM   #90
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Randy's Notes: "This is the best-handling production BMW I've driven in 10 years. This car is well-balanced. What a pleasure!"
I never liked Randy... too arrogant. He obviously has not driven the E92 M3. I'd take Jeremy Clarkson's word over his.

That is all.
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      03-21-2014, 10:28 AM   #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul-Bracq-BMW
This comparison from the german magazine "Autobild" is a little more telling: the Porsche Cayman S VS the M235i, and the Porsche won by... 2 points!



Translation excerpts (sorry if not exact...):

How much Porsche is the BMW?

The Cayman in our opinion maintains the Classic Porsche virtues: compact, lightweight and with the potent boxer engine from the 911. The 3.4-liter six-cylinder delivers 325 hp, and 370 Nm at 4500 rpm. The PDK seven-speed
Dual-clutch transmission is available for 2826 euros and adaptive dampers
for 1428 euros.

Does BMW even has a chance to win against it? The bavarian manufacturer (almost) pulled out all the stops with the new 2-series. The coupe version of the 1's Series has a likeable size and looks dazzling. It reminds you of the 02 Series from the 70's. And for the M235i, the top model of the range, BMW has sharpened the looks even more. Its 3-liter inline six-cylinder engine produces 326 bhp and 450 Nm at a low at 1300 Rpm. Transmission is the splendid eight-speed Sport Automatic made by ZF (2250 euros option), and the car has 18-inch wheels, sport-steering and brakes. Options are the adaptive suspension (760 Euro) and limited-slip differential (2890 euros, installation about 235 Euros). The M235i is comes to the competition prepared. And it shots like a catapult: with Launch Control (race-start function) it tears smoothly in 5 seconds from 0-100-km/h, slightly above the factory specification of 4.8 seconds. The double-scroll turbocharged Three liters pushes early and powerfully then turns wild... but always maintaining the classic in-line six cylinder howl. The eight-speed automatic reacts incredibly quickly, especially on Sport or Sport +. This engine and this gearbox, we can not write it often enough, are one of the best drive packages ever.

But then the Cayman S does the same feat in 4.6 seconds to 100 (also with Launch Control). The free-breathing 3.4-liter boxer needs higher Rpm's to deliver its power, but turns even wilder than the BMW, with amazing response. The engine sounds harder and more metallic than the 2 series, and makes the car much more alert. The seven-speed PDK reacts extremely quickly and in sports and Sport Plus mode, even increase the shifts speeds to lightning fast. Lovely, too, is the throttle blip when downshifting. On the dry handling course, a demanding, 3800 meter track, the Porsche sets a time of 1:34,23 minutes, which is only slower than the best 10 cars ever measured there. The car moves, especially in sport plus mode, as if it has sharpened senses, responsive and snappy. The steering obeys the smallest imputs and the Cayman turns sharply. One striking characteristic: the excellent traction in any situation. Of course, the mid-engine layout puts more weight on the driven rear axle. The axle load distribution is at 44:56. The BMW with its front-engine, has a F/R ratio of 52:48 and cannot put its power on the asphalt quite as well. It laps the track in 1:36,53 minutes - more than two seconds slower than the Porsche.

To avoid any misunderstanding, the BMW has a fine handling, a finely tuned steering and sensitively tuned ESP. It is only it is not as focused as the Porsche. And it weighs 1559 kilos: 130 more than the Cayman (1429 kilos). On the other hand, the BMW can carry 2 more passengers , which is impossible with the Porsche.

This Cayman S test car with optional equipments (amongst others, Sport Chrono Package at 2023 Euro, locking rear differential at 1309 Euro, 20-inch wheels at 1428 euros) costs 73,394 euros. A difference of more than 23,000 euros versus the BMW (49,650 euros), which is the price of a hot hatch!

Conclusion:
The Cayman S has the classic virtues of the Porsche brand: low weight, snappy engines and agile handling. And just because the Cayman S shows the M235i its limits, it's still one razor-sharp compact coupe. The Porsche is simply a flawless athlete.
I like my new Cayman S. I just wish I had more leg room,seats could tilt a few more degrees backwards,and wish it had less blind spots/better rear vision.

In a BMW you turn your head back once and you have a very clear rear view of what is behind you and to the side/rear of you while in the Caymans S you need to look back and turn your head back a good 5 times to make sure all the blindspots are covered.
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      03-21-2014, 10:28 AM   #92
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It's a fun review to read. A few things for me:

-I ain't pulling into a 4-star restaurant valet with a "Look at me!" park bench on the rear deck. I'm not 22 anymore.

-My wife will be driving my car occasionally. A/T and civility is a must at times.

-I don't want to spend $60k (I'm looking at you CLA)

All in all...I'm sleeping fine knowing that my 235 is getting on a boat soon.
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      03-21-2014, 10:29 AM   #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 24601 View Post
I never liked Randy... too arrogant. He obviously has not driven the E92 M3. I'd take Jeremy Clarkson's word over his.

That is all.
Clarkson is also a phenomenal Twitter follow if you haven't already, hilarious. Just don't buy anything he has designed or built in the Top Gear shed.
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      03-21-2014, 10:30 AM   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 24601 View Post
I never liked Randy... too arrogant. He obviously has not driven the E92 M3. I'd take Jeremy Clarkson's word over his.

That is all.
Unless, and this might come as a surprise, he's driven both cars and finds the M235 to handle better. Wouldn't that be a shocker?
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      03-21-2014, 10:35 AM   #95
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If the wing was the only thing holding someone back you can easily swap trunks with a WRX owner. That's what I did with my old 2005 STi and even got $100 out of the deal.

The new STI tempts me...a lot. It makes me nostalgic to how much I loved my old STI. I think the reality is though that I've outgrown that car.

What I'm really interested in is the new 2015 Golf R. For $40k that car is going to be bring a great mixture of performance, functionality and refinement.

Also, one last thing. The M235 I spec'd out online was $50,000, so lets not pretend like it's a $40,000 car.
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      03-21-2014, 10:59 AM   #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stylinexpat View Post
I like my new Cayman S...
Porsche just unveiled the Cayman GTS. The game has just been upped. I am starting to forget I ever wanted an M2...
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      03-21-2014, 11:05 AM   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 24601 View Post
I never liked Randy... too arrogant. He obviously has not driven the E92 M3. I'd take Jeremy Clarkson's word over his.

That is all.

LOL, yes don't like him either BUT he has driven the E92 and liked it. He drove it against the Mustang GT at Laguna Seca.
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      03-21-2014, 11:09 AM   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sdpauly View Post
Porsche just unveiled the Cayman GTS. The game has just been upped. I am starting to forget I ever wanted an M2...
But what is a Cayman GTS? More bloated luxo version, more power and lighter, can't tell from their website what it is. 20" wheels which raises poser alarms if they are pursuing lighter weight track prowess? Love the black GTS lettering though!
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      03-21-2014, 11:09 AM   #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bladeomatic View Post
It's a fun review to read. A few things for me:

-I ain't pulling into a 4-star restaurant valet with a "Look at me!" park bench on the rear deck. I'm not 22 anymore.

-My wife will be driving my car occasionally. A/T and civility is a must at times.

-I don't want to spend $60k (I'm looking at you CLA)

All in all...I'm sleeping fine knowing that my 235 is getting on a boat soon.
I am exactly in the same situation. Need automatic commuter car with civility and fun factor. I am moving up after 10+ years in a Neon SRT4 so I am done thinking I am a 20 something year old. I am happy with a classy, comfy car which is not out of place on an occasional track day. My M235i should get on Asian Emperor this weekend - can't wait to get it in late April!
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      03-21-2014, 11:10 AM   #100
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I special ordered my 13 STI sedan in rally blue, no sunroof,and NAV and waited 4 months for it, it was 35K and change. very cheap for what you get.

But unless something changed dramatically, the 15 STI is going to rattle just as much as my 13. And mine has no sunroof, which usually helps with the rattle.

The M235 is a nicer environment to be in than the STI no question, because it's not a 45K car with a 40K drivetrain.

And that wing? I like it fine. But then, I had a bright yellow car with a huge wing and a dry sump engine from .de before I had kids. That and I just don't care what people think. I do find it funny when I give the STI to the valet at Melisse knowing that the meal would cost more than one month of STI lease payment.

Get what makes you happy, but don't knock the competent STI because of what it is. It never pretends to be anything but a 35K car with a 30K drivetrain.
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      03-21-2014, 12:04 PM   #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul-Bracq-BMW View Post
This comparison from the german magazine "Autobild" is a little more telling: the Porsche Cayman S VS the M235i, and the Porsche won by... 2 points!
In the US the average new Cayman S has an asking price of over $80k USD. That's almost double the average M235i asking price. The M4 should be a much better competitor against the Cayman S.

* I guess only losing by 2 points on a 300 point scale is a huge win for a car costing almost half as much as the Porsche.
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      03-21-2014, 12:40 PM   #102
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Beaten by a Subaru?
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      03-21-2014, 01:13 PM   #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BC87 View Post
Honestly, I'd take the sti over all of them...60k for cla45 no!
Yep. I had an STi before my 135. I was tired of the lack of refinement, noise, "boy racer" look. But it was overall a more fun car to drive in every aspect. Don't get me wrong, I have absolutely zero regrets moving on from Subaru. I had 3 and they were great cars for what they are.

But this confirms it for me, I would never trade my 135 in for a 2-series. It's pretty much ///M or bust for me now.
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      03-21-2014, 01:26 PM   #104
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First a 435i loses to an Audi S5, now a M235i loses to a Subaru. BMW needs to re-evaluate their direction before they lose their core customers. Thank you Norbert for making my 135i a future classic.
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      03-21-2014, 01:44 PM   #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tracus View Post
Classic STI is one thing, good taste is another.
Old or new, it is one vomit combination.
It's been that way since the 90's. It's heritage that goes back a long time.

At least Subaru has been keeping true to their roots which is tougher to say about BMW.
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      03-21-2014, 02:59 PM   #106
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How can the reviewer even compare these 3 cars... I don't know what is thinking. A person shopping for an M235i or CLA45 AMG will most likely not be cross-shopping for an STI. These are completely different cars I would say the only similarity is the 0-100 times.

After reading more and more reviews I don't think they should be taken seriously anymore. Just try out the cars yourself, no need for others to tell you what is good and what is not. In my opinion car reviews are useless and redundant.
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      03-21-2014, 03:07 PM   #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cuiter23 View Post
How can the reviewer even compare these 3 cars... I don't know what is thinking. A person shopping for an M235i or CLA45 AMG will most likely not be cross-shopping for an STI. These are completely different cars I would say the only similarity is the 0-100 times.

After reading more and more reviews I don't think they should be taken seriously anymore. Just try out the cars yourself, no need for others to tell you what is good and what is not. In my opinion car reviews are useless and redundant.
This, especially considering they don't even seem to have any standards as to how they're judging them. It was basically which car made his balls tingle more. Seems to me like he just liked a manual more than automatic and that sealed the deal.
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      03-21-2014, 03:22 PM   #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jockey
Quote:
Originally Posted by BC87 View Post
Honestly, I'd take the sti over all of them...60k for cla45 no!
Yep. I had an STi before my 135. I was tired of the lack of refinement, noise, "boy racer" look. But it was overall a more fun car to drive in every aspect. Don't get me wrong, I have absolutely zero regrets moving on from Subaru. I had 3 and they were great cars for what they are.

But this confirms it for me, I would never trade my 135 in for a 2-series. It's pretty much ///M or bust for me now.
Right... Seeing how the 1 series faced the same exact criticism. 135i lost to some reviews to 370z and .. Did we forget all that !
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      03-21-2014, 03:25 PM   #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 24601 View Post
I never liked Randy... too arrogant. He obviously has not driven the E92 M3. I'd take Jeremy Clarkson's word over his.

That is all.
He's also the guy who said "I hate, hate, hate this car" about the 1M!



I am looking forward to some seat time in the M235i. One of my friends (who leased a Cayman S around the same time I bought the 1M) is thinking of getting the M235 ... so I might actually get a chance for extended seat time as well as some back to back impressions.

Honestly, I am also looking forward to the 228i. That car with a manual would be exactly the right second car to Einser Rex!
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      03-21-2014, 03:33 PM   #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shatty View Post
Can you drive the 235i with 3 inches of snow on the ground? I dont think so. I had a 135i cab and the thing didnt move with 1 inch of snow on the ground.
Did you forget to put winter tires on your 135i? Beginner mistake.

RWD with proper winter tires > AWD with summer tires or "all seasons". AWD does nothing to help you stop on ice.
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