THE LARGEST BMW 2-SERIES FORUM ON THE PLANET
2Addicts
2Addicts
BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
2Addicts | BMW 2-Series forum BMW 2 Series (F22) Forum BMW 2 Series Coupe and Cabriolet (F22/F23) General Forum Little need for 2 Series Gran Coupe says BMW Board Member Herbert Diess?

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      01-31-2014, 04:42 AM   #89
Math
First Lieutenant
Math's Avatar
Belgium
10
Rep
328
Posts

Drives: BMW F21 116D
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: B

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackJetE90 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by lonestar22 View Post
all the reason they need right here




These two cars out going to out sell the 2-series by a mile, only because they have 4-doors. BMW is making a big mistake. The 320i is terrible.
I agree. I'm actually considering an S3 sedan for my next car. It looks amazing, specs are incredible. And all for about the same price as i could afford a decently equipped 220d. Which has only 2 doors...and more than 100Hp less...
I would be sorry to leave BMW though..
__________________

2012 - BMW F21 116D ED

Please check my amazing car rental website at http://www.bscc.eu!
Appreciate 0
      01-31-2014, 05:29 AM   #90
Neph
Second Lieutenant
5
Rep
192
Posts

Drives: 2010 328i E92, Sport, 6MT
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: ///Milky way

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by bclemans
I think BMW knows they need a 4 door sedan to compete with CLA and A3, they are just being caught wrong footed at this time. It takes time to produce a new car and they will not admit the need to fill that niche until it is almost ready for production.
This is the real reason.

BMW will be late to the game which is being led by CLA and A3.

To save face they come up with the idea that they weren't in it to begin with. 1-2 yrs later 2 GC arrives.

OTOH I hope this wasnt said to push sales of the FWD 1 sedan or 2 active tourer
Appreciate 0
      01-31-2014, 06:05 AM   #91
e36power
Private First Class
43
Rep
175
Posts

Drives: E90 335i
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Atlanta

iTrader: (0)

This is unfortunate. I owned an E36 and own an E90 now. My wife owns an E46. I had an F30 as loaner for almost a week about a month ago. It is too big. Without a smaller sedan from BMW, I will have to consider an S3 when it comes time for a new car.

On a side note, I just don't get the need for a product to be larger with each revision. Makes no sense to me. But then again, I don't run a successful car company.
Appreciate 0
      01-31-2014, 06:25 AM   #92
e36power
Private First Class
43
Rep
175
Posts

Drives: E90 335i
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Atlanta

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by SF Space Grey View Post
This whole time I was thinking... the one good thing about the ridiculous proliferation of BMW models is that at least they'll come out with a 2 series gran coupe at some point, bringing back the small rear drive sport sedan that the 3 series is supposed to be.

It would be so weird for bmw to decide that they don't need a compact, high-powered sport sedan in the lineup. And no, bmw, the f30 is not compact by any standard.

We need to start a petition or something.
Figures, they start making every rendition of every car to fill every possible niche for every possible buyer, then they stop short of building the one that you really want .
Appreciate 0
      01-31-2014, 07:28 AM   #93
pokerface
Colonel
pokerface's Avatar
Canada
428
Rep
2,522
Posts

Drives: F25 X3 N20 / F80 ZCP
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Toronto

iTrader: (1)

Pretty sure they have a fwd 1 series family of sedans, hatches, and GCs to cover the entry level category.
Appreciate 0
      01-31-2014, 07:30 AM   #94
Downeaster1
BMW Master Tech
Downeaster1's Avatar
United_States
587
Rep
850
Posts

Drives: E30, E36, E82, E90, F10, F80
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: SoCal

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
If anyone is in the northern NJ area, I highly encourage you to go look behind the #250 building at woodcliff lake near the gas pump building. There is clearly a small four door sedan in camo. Additional plastic body panels also.
Appreciate 0
      01-31-2014, 07:34 AM   #95
alexb
Naturally Aspirated
alexb's Avatar
3
Rep
85
Posts

Drives: 2006 E90 330xi
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Southern New England

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by dmboone25 View Post
Right, but that 335 sedan isn't an M performance model. Whether or not that is blasphemy or not, these two cars have different purposes, or they should at least. The M235 has some of that M magic, so a 335is sedan would be a better comparo, if there were such a thing. Or if there were a regular old 235 (which doesn't exist) in the lineup, one might expect to see it plopped between the 228i and the M235i...

I wouldn't think those that are waiting on an M235 (like me) would cross shop against the F30 335 (I didn't and wouldn't).

Similarly, if they made a M335, then you would see a nice uptick in price. Just an observation.
I think that's a really good point, dmboone25

It didn't occur to me that you wouldn't cross-shop the two cars. Obviously, add M-Sport to that 335 base price ($3100) and now we're talking a reasonable difference. Also, if you're shopping coupe to coupe, it takes $2900 to get into a 435, then an additional $3100 to get M-Sport. Maybe there's room in there after all. It's a subtle point, though, about what you're getting for your money (equipment and M-Magic). I think a lot of customers who don't understand the lineup like we do are going to ask that question. I know that my Dad didn't really buy the explanation when I told him that's why the 335is cost so much more than a 335i.

Seems like the $11,000 difference between the 2er cars contains $6k for the standard difference, and $3k for M-Sport, leaving $2k in equipment? That makes sense. You can see it when you go to option up the 235m -- there's nothing else to put on the car! When you option a 228 to match a 235m, the cost difference between the cars shrinks significantly. That makes the case to jump up to the 35 somewhat self-evident.

I guess it just kills me that the M-Sport package costs $3k, and the premium pkg costs like 4k on the 28i -- I remember when they were less. My dad just bought a 128i and paid $1900 for the M-Sport package. I think they're steering us towards the 35i. My heart isn't complaining, ha ha ha... just my wallet.

Sorry for the digression here, everybody!

PS - I will totally applaud them for the packaging on the 2-Series though. Stand alone options of Xenons ($900) and Harmon-Kardon ($875ish) are real winners. In the previous generation 1er and 3er, they were requiring BMW Assist ($600) to get the Harmon and bundling the Xenons with the Premium Package! Total dick moves that seem to have been quickly reversed.
Appreciate 0
      01-31-2014, 07:45 AM   #96
lasovan
First Lieutenant
14
Rep
314
Posts

Drives: bmw 320
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: europe

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Math View Post
I agree. I'm actually considering an S3 sedan for my next car. It looks amazing, specs are incredible. And all for about the same price as i could afford a decently equipped 220d. Which has only 2 doors...and more than 100Hp less...
I would be sorry to leave BMW though..
I've owned both Audi and BMW cars. No comparison. BMW is the only driver's car here. As a transport device Audi is ok though, like trains are on the other hand.
Appreciate 0
      01-31-2014, 07:52 AM   #97
Falafel Combo
Banned
United_States
3767
Rep
6,673
Posts

Drives: X5 xDrive50i
Join Date: May 2011
Location: New England

iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Downeaster1 View Post
If anyone is in the northern NJ area, I highly encourage you to go look behind the #250 building at woodcliff lake near the gas pump building. There is clearly a small four door sedan in camo. Additional plastic body panels also.

Very interesting. Very early for a 2gc to be testing in the US. It would make more sense if it were spotted in Germany? Is it possible that it was a 4gc?
Appreciate 0
      01-31-2014, 08:14 AM   #98
marcva
Captain
United_States
378
Rep
647
Posts

Drives: E36 M345
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Vienna, Virginia, USA

iTrader: (0)

Maybe a market test?

As the owner of an E36 M3/4/5, I can understand their reasoning, and perhaps their methodology...The M3/4 was a car that was largely lobbied into creation by the BMWCCA. Most people that want a small, sporty car want a 2 dr, and I think the sales numbers for the M3/4 bore that out (though I don't have the exact figs handy).

The statement isn't an absolute denial. It's a challenge to demonstrate offsetting evidence. Perhaps they're making this statement to tease out market reaction.

Shame, cause I really liked the earlier renders of the alpine white 4 dr.
Appreciate 0
      01-31-2014, 08:16 AM   #99
wilstave
Legend
60
Rep
221
Posts

Drives: Loading...
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Toronto

iTrader: (0)

somebody refresh my memory....will the North American upcoming 1-series not be the 5 door hatch from Europe? will this not fill some gap against the A3 & CLA? (assuming the proper engine).
Appreciate 0
      01-31-2014, 08:38 AM   #100
Meeni
Gateropode
Meeni's Avatar
329
Rep
2,848
Posts

Drives: BMW 330i 06
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: TN

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by PK2348 View Post
He went on to say he sees a “high risk of substitution” where customers would buy the smaller car - presumably the 1-Series sedan or 2-Series Gran Coupe - instead of a more expensive model like the 3-Series.
Oh yeah ? I see another high risk of substitution. For another brand that offers the product people want at a price they can afford.
Appreciate 0
      01-31-2014, 08:39 AM   #101
dmboone25
Lieutenant General
dmboone25's Avatar
4971
Rep
10,200
Posts

Drives: 2024 Golf R / 2022 718 Spyder
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Dallas, TX

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2007 E92 328i  [10.00]
2007 328i  [10.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by alexb View Post
I think that's a really good point, dmboone25

It didn't occur to me that you wouldn't cross-shop the two cars. Obviously, add M-Sport to that 335 base price ($3100) and now we're talking a reasonable difference. Also, if you're shopping coupe to coupe, it takes $2900 to get into a 435, then an additional $3100 to get M-Sport. Maybe there's room in there after all. It's a subtle point, though, about what you're getting for your money (equipment and M-Magic). I think a lot of customers who don't understand the lineup like we do are going to ask that question. I know that my Dad didn't really buy the explanation when I told him that's why the 335is cost so much more than a 335i.

Seems like the $11,000 difference between the 2er cars contains $6k for the standard difference, and $3k for M-Sport, leaving $2k in equipment? That makes sense. You can see it when you go to option up the 235m -- there's nothing else to put on the car! When you option a 228 to match a 235m, the cost difference between the cars shrinks significantly. That makes the case to jump up to the 35 somewhat self-evident.

I guess it just kills me that the M-Sport package costs $3k, and the premium pkg costs like 4k on the 28i -- I remember when they were less. My dad just bought a 128i and paid $1900 for the M-Sport package. I think they're steering us towards the 35i. My heart isn't complaining, ha ha ha... just my wallet.

Sorry for the digression here, everybody!

PS - I will totally applaud them for the packaging on the 2-Series though. Stand alone options of Xenons ($900) and Harmon-Kardon ($875ish) are real winners. In the previous generation 1er and 3er, they were requiring BMW Assist ($600) to get the Harmon and bundling the Xenons with the Premium Package! Total dick moves that seem to have been quickly reversed.
I totally understand what you were saying originally--and prior to the introduction of the M performance line, the discrepency you pointed out would seriously make no sense.

I am hoping that as time goes along, some of these things shake out and become more logical. But I agree that the current lineup is pretty confusing.
__________________
Past rides: 2016 981 BGTS, 2020 MINI JCW, 2017 F80, 2015 981 CS, 2014 F22 235, 2011 E82 135, 2008 E82 135, 2007 E92 328, 2007 E92 328 (My lady drives an OG M2. So does my dad)
Appreciate 0
      01-31-2014, 08:41 AM   #102
xl5
Private
11
Rep
72
Posts

Drives: 2015 Honda Fit
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Dunedin, Florida

iTrader: (0)

The quote refers to the need (or lack thereof) for a "small sedan", while the 2GC reference is from the writer.

Is a GC really considered a "small sedan" in BMW parlance - I mean it has "coupe" in the name? Is this perhaps a semantic issue?

Or am I grasping at straws because this is at the top of my list of cars I would definitely buy?
Appreciate 0
      01-31-2014, 08:43 AM   #103
dmboone25
Lieutenant General
dmboone25's Avatar
4971
Rep
10,200
Posts

Drives: 2024 Golf R / 2022 718 Spyder
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Dallas, TX

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2007 E92 328i  [10.00]
2007 328i  [10.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by wilstave View Post
somebody refresh my memory....will the North American upcoming 1-series not be the 5 door hatch from Europe? will this not fill some gap against the A3 & CLA? (assuming the proper engine).
If history is any indication, no--we have only ever received the 1er coupe. Since the 2er coupe is now on the way, I think that will be the "entry" level vehicle choice for now.

It will be interesting to see what they do with the 1er when it goes FWD, and whether they decide to bring that over here.

The prevailing logic had previously been that no one would spend 35K on a 5 door 1er when they can get a Golf, WRX, Evo, etc for much less than that. We shall see...
__________________
Past rides: 2016 981 BGTS, 2020 MINI JCW, 2017 F80, 2015 981 CS, 2014 F22 235, 2011 E82 135, 2008 E82 135, 2007 E92 328, 2007 E92 328 (My lady drives an OG M2. So does my dad)
Appreciate 0
      01-31-2014, 08:45 AM   #104
wilstave
Legend
60
Rep
221
Posts

Drives: Loading...
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Toronto

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by dmboone25 View Post
If history is any indication, no--we have only ever received the 1er coupe. Since the 2er coupe is now on the way, I think that will be the "entry" level vehicle choice for now.

It will be interesting to see what they do with the 1er when it goes FWD, and whether they decide to bring that over here.

The prevailing logic had previously been that no one would spend 35K on a 5 door 1er when they can get a Golf, WRX, Evo, etc for much less than that. We shall see...
true say...thank you
Appreciate 0
      01-31-2014, 08:55 AM   #105
kevlartoronto
Private First Class
1
Rep
134
Posts

Drives: a4 3.2L avant 6spd
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: toronto

iTrader: (0)

no 2 series gran coupe? news flash Mr. BMW. I passed on buying a 3 series because it was too big. I was about to put my money down on a S3 until they dropped the ball by not offering a manual transmission. ugh.
Appreciate 0
      01-31-2014, 09:11 AM   #106
dmboone25
Lieutenant General
dmboone25's Avatar
4971
Rep
10,200
Posts

Drives: 2024 Golf R / 2022 718 Spyder
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Dallas, TX

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2007 E92 328i  [10.00]
2007 328i  [10.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by wilstave View Post
true say...thank you


Quote:
Originally Posted by kevlartoronto View Post
no 2 series gran coupe? news flash Mr. BMW. I passed on buying a 3 series because it was too big. I was about to put my money down on a S3 until they dropped the ball by not offering a manual transmission. ugh.
The manual transmission is still the "pull" that BMW has--no one else seems to be as dedicated to keeping the option alive.

I loved the TT-RS as well...but no manual option was available, at least that's what they told me at the Audi dealership...was kind of a deal breaker to me.

One of the main reasons I am so ready to get out of my E82 135 and into the M235 is because I have the DCT and just don't like it. this was my first ever car with some sort of auto tranny...and it is just too boring for me. Brilliant? Yes. faster than I can shift? Yes. Do I care? No.
__________________
Past rides: 2016 981 BGTS, 2020 MINI JCW, 2017 F80, 2015 981 CS, 2014 F22 235, 2011 E82 135, 2008 E82 135, 2007 E92 328, 2007 E92 328 (My lady drives an OG M2. So does my dad)
Appreciate 0
      01-31-2014, 09:18 AM   #107
Red Bread
Major General
United_States
4462
Rep
9,160
Posts

Drives: Smog machines
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Austin, TX

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by kevlartoronto
no 2 series gran coupe? news flash Mr. BMW. I passed on buying a 3 series because it was too big. I was about to put my money down on a S3 until they dropped the ball by not offering a manual transmission. ugh.
I'm on the list for a Golf R for just this reason.
Appreciate 0
      01-31-2014, 09:19 AM   #108
IEDEI
Banned
United_States
1129
Rep
4,686
Posts

Drives: L'Orange
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Brooklyn, NYC

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2011 BMW 1M  [8.40]
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmboone25 View Post

I loved the TT-RS as well...but no manual option was available, at least that's what they told me at the Audi dealership...was kind of a deal breaker to me.
the TT-RS was ONLY available with a manual transmission in the US.
Appreciate 0
      01-31-2014, 09:41 AM   #109
pkimM3r
Banned
pkimM3r's Avatar
205
Rep
7,298
Posts

Drives: m3 saloon in granny mode.
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: lost angeles

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ska325xi
Quote:
Originally Posted by aajami
Quote:
Originally Posted by KEYON View Post
The only problem I have with this is that BMW makes models that are absolutely pointless. Out of every model so far, BMW is going to say they don't want to make a 2 GC because people won't buy it? I'm sorry but they should have used that logic a long time ago...
No, the argument is that they won't make a 2GC because too many people would buy it, thus cannibalizing sales of the precious 3-series.

How long have people been clamoring for an E46-sized sedan for crying out loud? We've been talking about the damn 2GC for nearly three years on these forums, and there has been zero movement on it so far. This car is a no-brainer -- Audi and MB clearly see the need for it, and have delivered product to market. This risk averseness is going to choke BMW into utter mediocrity.
So too many ppl will buy a 2gc and bmw dont like the idea of good sales??? Really??
I guess margin wise the 3er is better? I dont get this.
Appreciate 0
      01-31-2014, 10:04 AM   #110
flyga3
Geboren zu Fahren!
flyga3's Avatar
United_States
12
Rep
377
Posts

Drives: F25 X3
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Scottsdale, AZ

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
While we are at it, why not an i3 and i8 Gran Coupe?? Please, let's stop this "Gran Coupe" lunacy as there is nothing "Gran" about a small car that is a 2-dr that "wants to be" a 4-dr. Then buy a 4 door.
__________________
2011 F25 X3 2.8 (in service)
2009 E90 328i (retired)
2007 E92 335i (retired)
2005 R53 MINI Cooper S (retired)
2002 E53 X5 3.0 (retired), 1999 E46 328i (retired)
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:36 AM.




2addicts
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST