[danimal]

Originally Posted by nachob

I also think they should offer the fixed firm m suspension! I don't want a comfort button in my M car. It's still an option in the current M3 but not a choice in the 235! You are forced to take EDC suspension. I want that choice!

Ironically, the only way to get that now is to buy a 228i (as I was discussing a couple pages ago).

For cars equipped with the adaptive shocks, I'm still curious what the min/max firmness is in the different modes, and how it compares to base MSport/Sport Line settings.

[Guynamedsean]

Originally Posted by danimal

You guys are doomed to lose...

At rear seat leg room.
Fuel tank capacity.
Road hugging weight.

Try not to be depressed.

Ughhhh, g35 and g37 drivers are the worse!
They are self loathing bmw haters.

[dmboone25]

Originally Posted by Chack

On another note. There is someone in the office who believes their G37 sedan will make short work of your M235i and my 135i... thought you should know...

I actually think that could be a fun comparo.

Hopefully the owner makes himself available for some friendly runs soon.

[dmboone25]

Originally Posted by nachob

Amen! There was a lot of misunderstanding for 1 series guys that thought the 1M was just a souped up 135i and would say their 135i with a tune was the same thing but it wasn't. The 1M had the e90 M3s all aluminum strut housings and other M3 parts. The brakes were sturdier than the nicer looking 135 brakes. The steering rack was the same unit as the M3 which was much quicker and you needed it to try to keep the backend in line. The flywheel was lightened and it had the full-lock M3 diff not a limited slip 30% max unit. All of these m3 underpinnings were unseen by the masses but made for a really cool experience. I hope the M2 follows suit! I also think they should offer the fixed firm m suspension! I don't want a comfort button in my M car. It's still an option in the current M3 but not a choice in the 235! You are forced to take EDC suspension. I want that choice!

I like the way you're thinking.

We can hope for the M2....

[phoenixbmwlife]

This is a very interesting thread and very hard to believe the 1er pulling on the more powerful 2er.

No offense to the OP. But it's one or more of three things.

1. There is something wrong with your 2er. I'd have it checked out

2. You're doing something wrong driving. I'm sure you're versed at driving a stick, but it doesn't sound right.

3. The 1er is modded without your knowledge if it. Is your friend in the 1 series a 1 Carfax owner? If not maybe the previous owner did something to it and he doesn't know.

All in all I want to know more about this experience because like I've said it just doesn't sound right and if it is something's very wrong with this picture.

[OrangeCrush]

Originally Posted by Bennu

This is a very interesting thread and very hard to believe the 1er pulling on the more powerful 2er.

No offense to the OP. But it's one or more of three things.

1. There is something wrong with your 2er. I'd have it checked out

2. You're doing something wrong driving. I'm sure you're versed at driving a stick, but it doesn't sound right.

3. The 1er is modded without your knowledge if it. Is your friend in the 1 series a 1 Carfax owner? If not maybe the previous owner did something to it and he doesn't know.

All in all I want to know more about this experience because like I've said it just doesn't sound right and if it is something's very wrong with this picture.

Isn't the M235 also a couple hundred lbs heavier? What do M235 dynos look like? We know the n54 was grossly underrated.

[dmboone25]

Originally Posted by Bennu

This is a very interesting thread and very hard to believe the 1er pulling on the more powerful 2er.

No offense to the OP. But it's one or more of three things.

1. There is something wrong with your 2er. I'd have it checked out

2. You're doing something wrong driving. I'm sure you're versed at driving a stick, but it doesn't sound right.

3. The 1er is modded without your knowledge if it. Is your friend in the 1 series a 1 Carfax owner? If not maybe the previous owner did something to it and he doesn't know.

All in all I want to know more about this experience because like I've said it just doesn't sound right and if it is something's very wrong with this picture.

Did you read the original post ? We switched. Same result. 135 pulled on the M235, regardless of who was driving.

No faults. No codes with the car. I don't think there's anything wrong with it.

His car has dual cone intake. Good for at LEAST 100 horsepower...lol

What I think is what I have always thought. The N55 isn't the greatest engine in the BMW lineup. Even though they use it like that.

By the way, the N54 was classicly underrated. So it's likely that his car is actually more powerful. And it's well documented that the US M235 is heavier.

So - my car HAS to be broken, OR neither of us can drive a stick, but only when either one of us in the M235. Right ?

Um no.

[dmboone25]

Originally Posted by OrangeCrush

Isn't the M235 also a couple hundred lbs heavier? What do M235 dynos look like? We know the n54 was grossly underrated.

Thank you - you beat me to it.

Don't forget, since the 135 pulled on huge M235 when either me or Chack were driving, we can only not drive a stick when in the M235.

That's actually a good point, Bennu. Maybe the MT is more rubbery than I had originally thought. Another point to the N54 135.

[BLK235iNJ]

I lost to a honda civic today... I blew up my car

[dmboone25]

Originally Posted by BLK235iNJ

I lost to a honda civic today... I blew up my car

Honestly, it wasn't so much that the 135 was faster. It was that it was more engaging and fun. Something has been lost from the E82 to the F22, at least in my humble opinion.

Again, the M235 is still a very good car. It's just not as good as I thought it was, or I actually prefer the urgency that is apparent in the N54 135.

[BLK235iNJ]

I mod my cars so to me it doesn't matter. Does the 135 have a forged crank? Same turbo setup?

Not familiar with the n54.

Originally Posted by dmboone25

Honestly, it wasn't so much that the 135 was faster. It was that it was more engaging and fun. Something has been lost from the E82 to the F22, at least in my humble opinion.

Again, the M235 is still a very good car. It's just not as good as I thought it was, or I actually prefer the urgency that is apparent in the N54 135.

[dmboone25]

Originally Posted by BLK235iNJ

I mod my cars so to me it doesn't matter. Does the 135 have a forged crank? Same turbo setup?

Not familiar with the n54.

The N54 definitely has some forged internals, but the details escape me. I will poke around and see if i can find the specifics.

N54 has two small Mitsubishi turbos. N55 has one turbo that is twin scroll.

EDIT: according to N54tech, rods and crank are forged in the N54...

[nachob]

Originally Posted by danimal

Ironically, the only way to get that now is to buy a 228i (as I was discussing a couple pages ago).

For cars equipped with the adaptive shocks, I'm still curious what the min/max firmness is in the different modes, and how it compares to base MSport/Sport Line settings.

Yes, that's the reason I drove the 228i! I posted that I was actually surprised at the 228 and found it to be lively was impressed by it. It's not much lighter but it does feel a bit lighter. Unfortunately the suspension felt soft also in fixed M-sport. I am still considering it though. My dealer told me they are going to order a 228i M-Sport with Track Package and no sunroof. No other options. It will have EDC too but I will keep and open mind because I like the lighter weight.

[nachob]

Originally Posted by OrangeCrush

Isn't the M235 also a couple hundred lbs heavier? What do M235 dynos look like? We know the n54 was grossly underrated.

Absolutely, the 135 N54 has two turbos like the F80 M3. The first ones were underrated and this was confirmed by car and driver. They got one of the pre-production N54 335i and dynoed it. It was a shocker. Making much more than expected. A couple of years later they tested another N54 and it was not as strong. They took it to dyno and confirmed lower numbers. They didn't know what happened. Some thought the early model was juiced up for the press. Personally, I think there was a lot of users complaining about wastegate noise and BMW made a fix that quieted the wastegates but also caused more lag and the car didn't feel as strong. Not sure myself, but there is a reason the M3 has two turbos. You have more air capacity than a single turbo. Now the single twin-scroll unit spools quicker and there is less lag. The N54s had slightly more lag but it went unnoticed because of the huge surge. Finally, when the ambient temperature was cold, the N54 is a beast and those two turbos do wonders. The intercooler can keep up in cool weather. I also noticed this in the 1M, on cool mornings it felt like it made 40 more horsepower than middle of the day warm.

[jeremicium]

The more I think about this the more I think it's a matter of feel rather than fact. Published 0-60 times for the M235i are consistently faster than the 135i regardless of whether the 135i had the N54 or N55.

Just got Car and Drivers Lightning Lap edition today. They specifically mention that at VIR the M235i is 6.5 seconds faster around the track than the 2008 135i they tested. Thats an eternity.

If the 135i is faster side by side, I can only assume its a matter of either driver skill or maybe tires.

[jbenington86]

Originally Posted by jeremicium

The more I think about this the more I think it's a matter of feel rather than fact. Published 0-60 times for the M235i are consistently faster than the 135i regardless of whether the 135i had the N54 or N55.

Just got Car and Drivers Lightning Lap edition today. They specifically mention that at VIR the M235i is 6.5 seconds faster around the track than the 2008 135i they tested. Thats an eternity.

If the 135i is faster side by side, I can only assume its a matter of either driver skill or maybe tires.

+1

[danimal]

Originally Posted by jeremicium

If the 135i is faster side by side, I can only assume its a matter of either driver skill or maybe tires.

The OP was pretty clear that (1) it was not the driver because both drivers drove both cars and (2) it was not the tires because they were starting from a roll, not a stop (so traction would not be a factor).

I think the most likely explanation is just that the OP's friend happens to have a slightly faster than average 135i, and the OP has a slightly slower than average M235i. Also, the 135i may be at the age and mileage where it produces the most power it ever will. I believe engines continue to break in over tens of thousands of miles. After yet more miles, power begins to drop due to wear. So, there is a sweet spot. Perhaps after another year, the OP's M235i will be the faster car.

[trey100]

Only other option besides the 135 being modified is that the 6mt is the issue. There may be an improvement in the magazine m235 numbers due to the 8at gearing compared to the previous transmissions. We know the 8at versions of the 335 fared better than the 6mt versions. That improvement won't be seen in the 6mt m235 as it is the same gearing as the 135. Has there been a road test of a 6mt m235?

[DSTR]

Not worth losing sleep over. If it is sell and get something faster to smooth your ego. I would not at all care if a 135i was faster than me. Whats the reward if he/she is? Zero.

[dmboone25]

Originally Posted by DSTR

Not worth losing sleep over. If it is sell and get something faster to smooth your ego. I would not at all care if a 135i was faster than me. Whats the reward if he/she is? Zero.

It's not an ego thing, not for me anyway.

Again - I don't really give a shit that the N54 is faster on a roll - having owned one and never being a huge fan of the N55 (and I have had 2 of those), I would have guessed he was a little faster anyway.

My primary gripe is that the F22 is significantly more squishy, less urgent, and appears to be more lazy than the E82 N54 135.

As a result, I have a hard time saying definitively that the M235 is a worthwhile upgrade over the N54, unless comfort and smoothness are what you're after. Then you're in luck, because the M235 has plenty of that.

[DSTR]

Originally Posted by dmboone25

It's not an ego thing, not for me anyway.

Again - I don't really give a shit that the N54 is faster on a roll - having owned one and never being a huge fan of the N55 (and I have had 2 of those), I would have guessed he was a little faster anyway.

My primary gripe is that the F22 is significantly more squishy, less urgent, and appears to be more lazy than the E82 N54 135.

As a result, I have a hard time saying definitively that the M235 is a worthwhile upgrade over the N54, unless comfort and smoothness are what you're after. Then you're in luck, because the M235 has plenty of that.

Understand. My comment was in general and directed at no one. I think we get wrapped up on things that take away from enjoying our cars. Its always personal and subjective.

[Chack]

Originally Posted by jeremicium

The more I think about this the more I think it's a matter of feel rather than fact. Published 0-60 times for the M235i are consistently faster than the 135i regardless of whether the 135i had the N54 or N55.

Just got Car and Drivers Lightning Lap edition today. They specifically mention that at VIR the M235i is 6.5 seconds faster around the track than the 2008 135i they tested. Thats an eternity.

If the 135i is faster side by side, I can only assume its a matter of either driver skill or maybe tires.

Magazine published 0-60 times are hardly reliable. It's not as if they are peer reviewed journals; there's nothing to ensure the integrity of the data. Also, people expect newer cars to be faster, manufactureres advertise newer cars to be an improvement in every way, and magazines happily play to both parties - why wouldnt they?

Anyway, track times and a side by side pulls are very different. No one is disputing that BMWs design and user requirements for the M235i were anything less than improving on the n55 135i in every aspect. But, OP is saying is 1) the n54 has a different character and power delivery than the N55 and 2) the suspension geometry of the 2009 135i is different from the M235i such that he prefers the choppier ride of the less complex set -up (which it is because the my 135i is barebones, no adjustable settings for ride, no sport buttons - the only button on the car that effects anything is DTC).

Of course keep in mind OP is talking about an N54 equipped 135, not an N55 135 which may have been the basis (the N55 that is) for BMWs incremental improvements. They swept the N54 quietly under the rug in 2010 only to find itself rebranded as an 135is, 335is, Z4sdrive35is...

Also, this isnt the first time we seen underrated forged-internals twin turbo inline 3.0L six cylinders producing prodigious amounts of power --- Turbo Supra anyone...

And its not like Toyota and BMW collaborate or share tech or anything...