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      04-24-2014, 09:45 AM   #1
th1rd3y3
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Question Disable both DSC/DTC? Am I going crazy?

Ok so I've had my car for about a week and this is really driving me nuts. I cannot for the life of me figure out how to get both DTC/DSC fully off. In standard comfort mode, one press of the button above the Sport mode selector will show "Traction" in the display and say DTC activated. A long press on that will show "DSC Off".

My understanding was that this setting should turn everything off, however, that's not been my experience. On 3 different occasions with the settings in this position, the rear of the car has started to slide, yet something stops the slide and the light beside the orange "OFF" indicator between the gauges flashes.

Also, holding the DSC button in Sport or Sport + mode kicks me back into Comfort mode? What is up with that, apparently this is common, but why on earth would I want the Comfort chassis/drivetrain options set if I'm turning everything else off?

If this has been covered before, I apologize. For what it's worth my wife's '13 335 does not seem to behave in this manner. I've autoxed her car a few times with everything off and it allows the car to get pretty sideways. My car is manual, but I wouldn't think that would make it function differently.
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      04-24-2014, 10:10 AM   #2
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A short press of the DTC-button should activate DTC and allow for some slip. A long press (5 seconds) should turn DSC off completely, and I am surprised that there is still something holding you back. I don't have the power to go sideways on dry tarmac, but there is nothing keeping me from going completely apeshit on the snow with DSC off.

Regarding DSC off and throttle response and other settings reverting to Comfort, this is a dead horse that has already been beaten to a bloody pulp. Nobody seems to understand why BMW has done this, and nobody - to my knowledge - seem to be able to program the car to stay in Sport after DSC has been turned off.
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      04-24-2014, 11:36 AM   #3
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Hit sport+ and hold down the DSC off button til it says its off will turn off both.
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      04-24-2014, 12:22 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darkerosxx
Hit sport+ and hold down the DSC off button til it says its off will turn off both.
In guessing this is for some fishtailing fun??
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      04-24-2014, 01:11 PM   #5
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lol, I personally don't drive with both off, and btw all my launch controls after that fishtailing post I've never fishtailed once, so I don't know what happened, maybe the tires were cold that first time haha (blame it on the tires, not the driver, right?)
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      04-24-2014, 01:14 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darkerosxx View Post
Hit sport+ and hold down the DSC off button til it says its off will turn off both.
I've tried this as well. It doesn't stay in Sport+ when you do this, it just turns DSC off and puts you back in Comfort mode. My thought was DSC off should result in no inhibitors but unless I'm crazy, that doesn't seem to be the case. I'm going to have to test this out further in a more controlled environment.
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      04-24-2014, 01:29 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by th1rd3y3 View Post
I've tried this as well. It doesn't stay in Sport+ when you do this, it just turns DSC off and puts you back in Comfort mode. My thought was DSC off should result in no inhibitors but unless I'm crazy, that doesn't seem to be the case. I'm going to have to test this out further in a more controlled environment.
The only situation where I've had it put me back into comfort mode is if I just hit the button and don't hold it down. Never had it do that, otherwise, so maybe keep that in mind when doing it to make sure you're holding it down all the way.

Also, just like you guys are saying, when in Sport+ and I hold down the dsc/dtc off button, it just says dsc off. Isn't dsc supposed to be off already in sport+? wtf? It doesn't say anything about turning off dtc, so maybe I was mistaken. My sales rep said doing that turned both off, but all it says is dsc off in the instrument cluster and on the idrive screen (idrive says sport oriented drivetrain and chassis with dsc off after holding down dsc button while in sport+)

Quote:
Originally Posted by BMW M235i Manual
Activating SPORT+
Press the button repeatedly until
SPORT+ appears in the instrument
cluster and the DSC OFF indicator lamp lights
up.
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      04-24-2014, 01:31 PM   #8
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DSC is never completely turned off, though you should be able to get the back end whipping around pretty well. When you did your testing, was the car supposed to be going straight (steering wheel at center) and the back end kicked out? Or were you actually trying to do some J turn maneuvers?
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      04-24-2014, 01:35 PM   #9
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darkerosxx, next time you go into Sport + then hold down until DSC is off, use the mode selector again and you should see that it's back in Comfort mode.

Every time, it's been mostly unintentional. Quick turn or maneuver with some liberal throttle application that would get the car just starting to slide and then the system intervenes. Mostly when making a sharp turn from a stop, or making a quick 90 degree turn and applying the throttle while the car is still turning.
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      04-24-2014, 01:43 PM   #10
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That does seem strange. Even with DTC I can almost kick off a full 180 in my car. With DSC off I can get into one-wheeled drifts haha
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      04-24-2014, 01:48 PM   #11
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Yeah and using the same method I use in my car, I've had my wife's car fully sideways in the snow and on dry pavement. Oh and her car is AWD to boot.

So yeah, to be fair I've not gone out and completely thrashed on it yet but this is what I'm seeing so far. I have a few autox events that I'll be able to fully test it coming up as that'll be the quickest and easiest way to verify how it works. I just thought maybe I was doing something wrong.
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      04-24-2014, 01:57 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by th1rd3y3 View Post
darkerosxx, next time you go into Sport + then hold down until DSC is off, use the mode selector again and you should see that it's back in Comfort mode.

Every time, it's been mostly unintentional. Quick turn or maneuver with some liberal throttle application that would get the car just starting to slide and then the system intervenes. Mostly when making a sharp turn from a stop, or making a quick 90 degree turn and applying the throttle while the car is still turning.
When I hold it down, it comes up on the idrive screen and says it's in sport-oriented chassis and drivetrain mode with dsc off. (a different screen from either sport or sport+ mode) So maybe it's just some off-mode and when you hit the selector it just throws it into comfort because that's the default? I dunno.
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      04-24-2014, 02:52 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hyperzulu View Post
DSC is never completely turned off, though you should be able to get the back end whipping around pretty well. When you did your testing, was the car supposed to be going straight (steering wheel at center) and the back end kicked out? Or were you actually trying to do some J turn maneuvers?
You sure about that? I've not read anything about that in the reviews of the M235i, and that's counter to every other BMW I've driven.

I was able to turn it off completely in my 135i based on these instructions, and likewise in our X3 (lol):

Quote:
The default mode is DSC (Dynamic Stability Control). In this mode, the computer will temporarily reduce power to the engine, and/or apply brakes at individual wheels if it detects the car is about to swerve or go out of control. This is how most drivers should be driving their 135i. This feature can definitely be felt when it kicks in, and you will see the indicator light come on.

One quick press turns ON DTC mode (dynamic traction control) or DSC light. This mode reduces stability control, and adds increased traction. This is used in heavy snow, rain or loose gravel or any environment where you need extra traction but you don't want the stability control intervening because it always thinks your skidding. Some wheel slipping is allowed under DTC.

Hold the button down for 5 seconds turns off both DSC (dynamic stability control) and DTC (dynamic traction control) but the e-diff is activated. This puts the car in 'TIM YOYO' mode. (That's It Motherf***er You’re On Your Own). In this mode, power to the engine is not controlled. The only action the computer will take is to apply braking to the rear wheel that is spinning the most.

When DSC (dynamic stability control) is on, the goal isn't just to stop the rear wheels from spinning. The goal is to prevent the car from going out of control. The computer will use engine cut out, and individual brakes to slow the car down and bring it back in line. That works opposite from the E-Diff, which tries to slow down the wheel that's spinning, to shift power to the one that is not.
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      04-24-2014, 03:00 PM   #14
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'TIM YOYO' hahaha...I approve!
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      04-24-2014, 03:04 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darkerosxx View Post
When I hold it down, it comes up on the idrive screen and says it's in sport-oriented chassis and drivetrain mode with dsc off. (a different screen from either sport or sport+ mode) So maybe it's just some off-mode and when you hit the selector it just throws it into comfort because that's the default? I dunno.
I turned that screen back on saw what you're referring to. What's funny is I swear switching to the Sport + after that though makes the throttle feel more touchy. Who knows though?
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      04-24-2014, 03:51 PM   #16
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Switching off dtc will put the car in comfort mode, ie normal throttle response rather than sharpened.

The reason is safety, and not wanting people to have no driver aids and a really sensitive throttle etc.

I'm sure in part it's because of US liabilities to be fair!
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      04-24-2014, 03:53 PM   #17
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This might help from babybmw.com

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      04-24-2014, 07:35 PM   #18
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Try putting the car in sport or sport+ then moving the gear selector over into sport then turn it off... Other wise just hold the dtc until it's off and drive the car in Manual mode, if your looking to drift that's actually better I find that there is a slight delay when you put the gas all the way down from a stop even when in sport plus that will keep you from being able to spin your tires a lot. Works much better in manual mode with dtc off
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      04-25-2014, 07:20 AM   #19
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Thanks for the input guys. I think what I've found after some more driving is that I haven't pushed the car hard enough to fully lose lateral grip completely. It seems what I'm mistaking as DSC interfering is just the tires briefly losing grip and then grabbing again. I watched it this morning while driving and was able to get the car to step out briefly, but it grabbed pretty abruptly and continued forward. No flashing lights though, so I'm guessing the time I did see that was a time I was in Sport+ but not with DSC off.
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      04-25-2014, 07:39 AM   #20
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Call your CA and tell them that you really wish you had opted for the Performance Center Delivery option. Play it up really hard. My brother-in-law managed to get the BMW 101 course (which is the same as PCD) for free after he had already taken delivery of his car.

Even though BMW 101 is a short (half-day) driving experience, you'll learn a ton about what it feels like to drive a car at the limit and past it. They literally take you out on the skid pad and have you drive the car well past its limit. I did a complete 360. I'm definitely going back for one of the more advanced driving schools.
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      04-25-2014, 07:55 AM   #21
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Yeah once I get it on an autox course I'll be good to go. Just need to test the limits somewhere safe. It's funny as I've autoxed more RWD cars than I have daily driven them.
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      06-29-2014, 01:52 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by th1rd3y3 View Post
Ok so I've had my car for about a week and this is really driving me nuts. I cannot for the life of me figure out how to get both DTC/DSC fully off. In standard comfort mode, one press of the button above the Sport mode selector will show "Traction" in the display and say DTC activated. A long press on that will show "DSC Off".

My understanding was that this setting should turn everything off, however, that's not been my experience. On 3 different occasions with the settings in this position, the rear of the car has started to slide, yet something stops the slide and the light beside the orange "OFF" indicator between the gauges flashes.

Also, holding the DSC button in Sport or Sport + mode kicks me back into Comfort mode? What is up with that, apparently this is common, but why on earth would I want the Comfort chassis/drivetrain options set if I'm turning everything else off?

If this has been covered before, I apologize. For what it's worth my wife's '13 335 does not seem to behave in this manner. I've autoxed her car a few times with everything off and it allows the car to get pretty sideways. My car is manual, but I wouldn't think that would make it function differently.
Sorry for the necro, but I think I found our answer.

You can turn DSC (and DTC) completely off and it does not put the car into comfort mode. DSC off mode is an entirely different mode in and of itself (Not eco, comfort, sport, or sport +) - DSC is off, the E-diff (or LSD if you have it) system is on, the chassis is in sport, but the throttle is in comfort. However, there is a very good reason for this. If anyone is familiar with throttle steering, you wouldn't necessarily want a super responsive throttle, as you have to feather the throttle to stay on your racing line and hit your apex, etc.

I think this is why when you try selecting a mode per the normal switch, it looks like the car is still in comfort - it's not really in any of those modes.

Of course, I suppose it would be nice to pick which type of throttle response we would like in DSC off mode, but I can understand BMW's choice of "comfort" throttle in DSC off mode. Hope this helps. Cheers.

Last edited by Liquidpaper; 06-29-2014 at 02:05 PM..
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