[jhbjrpdx]

I wanted to switch out some tires and have a BMW jack kit on my Series 2. Have an electric impact wrench. Whoever put these tires on the last time really torqued them. I can kick the lug wrench and got loose but I am dead in the water with one that is frozen. Any ideas. I would really like to change my snow to regular tires at home.


This short lug wrench slipped off the nut and I am afraid I am going to strip it if I keep jumping on the wrench.

Thx. JHB

[jpnh]

Originally Posted by jhbjrpdx

I wanted to switch out some times and have a BMW jack kit on my Series 2. Have an electric impact wrench. Whoever put these tires on the last time really torqued them. I can kick the lug wrench and got loose but I am dead in the water with one that is frozen. Any ideas. I would really like to change my snow to regular tires at home.


This short lug wrench slipped off the nut and I am afraid I am going to strip it if I keep jumping on the wrench.

Thx. JHB

Snug the other lug nuts up to normal torgue

Then take your torque wrench or breaker bar. put a piece of pipe on it as an extension to increase leverage and you should be able to loosen it.....

I have a 3/4" drive breaker bar and a 5' length of exhaust pipe I use when I encounter a situation like this where additional persuasion is required

Snugging the other lug nuts back up can help take some of the pressure/force off the problem nut.

[bryan_G01]

spray with wd40, wait an hour. Try again.

Use a longer bar for leverage as mentioned above, torque cold to 90.

[jpnh]

Originally Posted by bryan_f22

spray with wd40, wait an hour. Try again.

Use a longer bar for leverage as mentioned above, torque cold to 90.

It should go without saying......dont get a lubricant on the brakes......especially the pads

I have a habit of applying the silver anti sieze lube to most every metal fastener I take off before I put it back on

Saves a lot of headaches down the road

I have taken things apart 15 years later without issue at all after having used this method

Saves frustration and skinned knuckles

[jhbjrpdx]

A trip to the tool shore for a 25 inch breaker bar did the trick. The next surprise was the wheels had to fused to the hub after the lugs were out. Just had to use a big screw driver as a chisel/pry bar to work the wheel off the hub. How do I prevent that in the future. Anti-sieze lube on the hub is my guess. Putting on 4 snow tires took 3 hours. BMW really made this a pain in the ass. Breaker bar is now in my car toolkit.

[Taunto]

Originally Posted by jhbjrpdx

A trip to the tool shore for a 25 inch breaker bar did the trick. The next surprise was the wheels had to fused to the hub after the lugs were out. Just had to use a big screw driver as a chisel/pry bar to work the wheel off the hub. How do I prevent that in the future. Anti-sieze lube on the hub is my guess. Putting on 4 snow tires took 3 hours. BMW really made this a pain in the ass. Breaker bar is now in my car toolkit.

I dont think BMW made it difficult. Wheels should be Torqued to 140NM.
If you have some rust and crap built up around the hub... I use a wire brush around the hub on the car then apply a thin layer of Anti-sieze around it... clean up the crap around the center of the wheel on the backside and put it back on. From the sounds of it, you had a combination of previous tech not torquing the wheel properly and maybe some frost build up around the wheel bolt surface.

FYI - for the WD-40 comment - throw that shit in the garbage... WD-40 is just a crappy version of silicone spray.

[pikcachu]

Originally Posted by jpnh

It should go without saying......dont get a lubricant on the brakes......especially the pads

I have a habit of applying the silver anti sieze lube to most every metal fastener I take off before I put it back on

Saves a lot of headaches down the road

I have taken things apart 15 years later without issue at all after having used this method

Saves frustration and skinned knuckles

Doesn't putting lubricant affect your torque specs ?

[mdputnam]

Nothing beats a pneumatic impact wrench with 1,350 ft/lbs of torque:


But, the easiest thing to do is, go down to your local service station and have them remove the nut with the proper tool, it will take them approximately 5 seconds.

[bryan_G01]

i love air tools as much as the next guy, but 90lbs of tq doesent require anything more than a cheap torque wrench and a 2" extension and socket to change tires.

[jpnh]

Originally Posted by pikcachu

Doesn't putting lubricant affect your torque specs ?

probably a wee bit

in the past I've always utilized indicated torque specs and never had issues so.....

[Anthony235]

Now that you got it off I would toss that lug bolt (or stud if you're running a stud conversion).

If it was torqued to the point you needed a breaker bar it's probably now weakened quite a bit. If you track the car then for sure replace it.

If you ever go to a shop and see them use an impact gun to put your wheels on never go there again. They should use their hands to start the bolt/nut and then get finger tight. Should finish it with a TQ wrench.

[Anthony235]

Originally Posted by pikcachu

Doesn't putting lubricant affect your torque specs ?

It for sure does. It would over torque the bolt if using a TQ wrench, but by how much?

For people in really crappy climates it's probably worth it.

[jpnh]

Originally Posted by Anthony235

It for sure does. It would over torque the bolt if using a TQ wrench, but by how much?

For people in really crappy climates it's probably worth it.

For reference sake lets use lug nuts

I've been doing this on vehicles in the NE for decades and never once has it resulted in warped rotors or any other issues that are typically associated with over torquing

I have cars that i've done 150k miles on with zero rotor issues and only replaced brakes due to pads approaching end of life.

There have been lots of discussions on the web about this....here's just one

https://mechanics.stackexchange.com/...ith-anti-seize

The inverse is at least in my opinion worse because with dry/rusty threads you end up twisting fasteners and/or get inconsistent clamping pressure

Its worked reliably for me for many years and many hundreds of thousands of miles......ymmv

[Anthony235]

Originally Posted by jpnh

For reference sake lets use lug nuts

I've been doing this on vehicles in the NE for decades and never once has it resulted in warped rotors or any other issues that are typically associated with over torquing

I have cars that i've done 150k miles on with zero rotor issues and only replaced brakes due to pads approaching end of life.

There have been lots of discussions on the web about this....here's just one

https://mechanics.stackexchange.com/...ith-anti-seize

The inverse is at least in my opinion worse because with dry/rusty threads you end up twisting fasteners and/or get inconsistent clamping pressure

Its worked reliably for me for many years and many hundreds of thousands of miles......ymmv

I'm sure you can argue either way and I never looked into it too much because I don't use anti seize on my lug nuts.

I just found this after reading your post to see if anyone has actually tested it. In his test he got a 30% increase from using anti seize on the bolt. Go to the 3:30 minute mark.

[Anthony235]

Also from ARP which your link references. So they do say it effects it and their TQ specs are listed with lube (specifically their own lube).

Do I need lube on my bolts or studs?
We recommend using ARP Ultra-Torque lube to ensure an even, accurate clamp load and to prevent thread galling. This is particularly important for stainless steel fasteners. The lube should be used under the head of the bolt or the bearing surface of the nut and on the threads, unless a thread sealer is used.

Do I have to use Ultra-Torque?
We spent two years developing ARP Ultra-Torque and we have come up with what we believe to be the ultimate fastener lubricant. All of our torque values are based on using Ultra-Torque. We do not provide torque values for use with any other fastener assembly lubricant (such as motor oil, moly lube, etc.) Use these other lubes at your own risk, as their use may lead to a part or engine failure, for which we are not responsible.

[jpnh]

Originally Posted by Anthony235

I'm sure you can argue either way and I never looked into it too much because I don't use anti seize on my lug nuts.

I just found this after reading your post to see if anyone has actually tested it. In his test he got a 30% increase from using anti seize on the bolt. Go to the 3:30 minute mark.

Cool video

I fear this could be one of those 9mm vs 45 discussions

What would be interesting would be a real world application validation

Take a bolt thats been used for a couple years and has surface corrosion on it/threads and add a little anti seize

Then take a factory new bolt and compare without AS and see where we are in values

I suspect they will be considerably closer for those of us that live in a rust belt

[Anthony235]

Originally Posted by jpnh

Cool video

I fear this could be one of those 9mm vs 45 discussions

What would be interesting would be a real world application validation

Take a bolt thats been used for a couple years and has surface corrosion on it/threads and add a little anti seize

Then take a factory new bolt and compare without AS and see where we are in values

I suspect they will be considerably closer for those of us that live in a rust belt

I agree, depending on climate I could see a justification for anti seize.

Especially for cars that actually have a spare in the trunk instead of a flat kit. Would ruin someones day getting a flat and not being able to get the wheel off on the side of the road cause it's so corroded. Just keep in mind once a bolt is over TQ'd past a certain limit the bolt is permanently stretched. It will not go back to it's original shape. This for sure weakens it.

PS. 9mm >.45

[jpnh]

Originally Posted by Anthony235

I agree, depending on climate I could see a justification for anti seize.

Especially for cars that actually have a spare in the trunk instead of a flat kit. Would ruin someones day getting a flat and not being able to get the wheel off on the side of the road cause it's so corroded. Just keep in mind once a bolt is over TQ'd past a certain limit the bolt is permanently stretched. It will not go back to it's original shape. This for sure weakens it.

PS. 9mm >.45

Yea, If I lived in a desert there wouldnt be a need for AS lube

LOL

Isnt the 9v45 question a moot point in Cali?

[mdputnam]

Originally Posted by bryan_f22

i love air tools as much as the next guy, but 90lbs of tq doesent require anything more than a cheap torque wrench and a 2" extension and socket to change tires.

I agree! If the nut is properly installed and torqued you shouldn't need an air tool at all. But, if you have one stuck on the wheel for what ever reason a good pneumatic tool can't be beat, electric ones just don't have enough juice. As an extreme example, last summer I had a recalcitrant lug nut on a Ford pickup truck, I tried removing it with my 800 ft-lb pneumatic impact gun and it was no go, switching to the 1,350 ft-lb gun and it spun off with one hit of the switch.

[jpnh]

Originally Posted by jhbjrpdx

A trip to the tool shore for a 25 inch breaker bar did the trick. The next surprise was the wheels had to fused to the hub after the lugs were out. Just had to use a big screw driver as a chisel/pry bar to work the wheel off the hub. How do I prevent that in the future. Anti-sieze lube on the hub is my guess. Putting on 4 snow tires took 3 hours. BMW really made this a pain in the ass. Breaker bar is now in my car toolkit.

Tool user 1
Inanimate object 0



Another trick for the "stuck" wheel is to whack the TIRE with a heavier hammer (3# or bigger)

If you are prone to whacking thumbs then dont try this......you'll end up whacking the rim instead of the tire

[Anthony235]

Originally Posted by jpnh

Isnt the 9v45 question a moot point in Cali?

Not if used in muskets

[Taunto]

Originally Posted by Anthony235

Now that you got it off I would toss that lug bolt (or stud if you're running a stud conversion).

If it was torqued to the point you needed a breaker bar it's probably now weakened quite a bit. If you track the car then for sure replace it.

If you ever go to a shop and see them use an impact gun to put your wheels on never go there again. They should use their hands to start the bolt/nut and then get finger tight. Should finish it with a TQ wrench.

First Off - Applying Any lubricant directly to the threads of a bolt/stud will effect the torque always.

2nd of all.. the whole impact comment is just bullshit. Putting on wheels with an impact is 100% fine. As long as they are not using Torque Sticks and not just hammering the wheel bolt for 10 seconds until it stops.

I've been a licensed tech for many years and currently work for a BMW dealer and I put wheel bolts on with an impact each and every single day... X1 vehicles all the way up to M6 and even M4 GTS.
Just lift the wheel up, hold it in place while i put the first bolt in hand tight to help secure the wheel in place.. then i thread in every other bolt in for 3-4 threads then run the rest of the bolt in until it stops with my impact then torque the wheel/s once back on the ground.

Saying to stay away from shops who put wheels on with an impact is just bullocks. Yes there are many techs out there, that shouldn't be techs or even in the trade... but most of us are just regular car guys with a good head on our shoulders.