[Estoril6rod]

Hey guys, last night while searching through the forums I came up with the idea of starting a thread specifically dedicated to temperature management for tuned cars (BM3, MHD, JB4, etc.) The idea is to unify all current info on this topic based on user experience (track, dyno, daily driving, etc) under a single thread to use as a go-to reference page.

I wanted to start by inquiring about radiator upgrades on our cars. I believe IAT, Coolant temps and Oil temps are some of the top parameters a stock and tuned DME will monitor in order to decide whether or not to cut back on power and protect the engine. While oil temperatures can be regulated by the extra oil cooler that comes from factory and IAT can be regulated by a IC and/or water-meth system I’ve yet to find any solid info regarding coolant temperature management directly. My current M235i also has the additional coolant radiator on the left side and while I don’t possess logs right now to post I have noticed that switching to the “Sport” setting this auxiliary cooler will kick in and lower coolant temperatures. However, is this decrease in coolant temperature enough to offset the heat that is generated by a tuned car? Would an upgraded radiator (like the CSF option) be a very helpful mod or overkill?

*For the sake of this discussion lets assume we all live in a very high temperature environment and we alternate between DD, track and/or mountain driving.*

Thank you all in advance for your inputs!

[Anthony235]

I've logged tracked days with Jb4, I'm now BM3 though. Honestly don't think it's needed in this car. I've tracked with low 80* ambient temps, but not higher. I don't do track days during the summer. Just not worth the extra wear and tear on all components in my opinion.

I've ran CSF, Setrab, and Mishimoto products (oil coolers and radiators) in previous cars out of necessity. I would not do it unless it's absolutely required. My NISMO 370z was the worst when it came to on track temps.

I believe all NA cars have the additional coolant radiator. Euro cars don't have it I believe. Not sure about other regions.

[Estoril6rod]

Originally Posted by Anthony235

I've logged tracked days with Jb4, I'm now BM3 though. Honestly don't think it's needed in this car. I've tracked with low 80* ambient temps, but not higher. I don't do track days during the summer. Just not worth the extra wear and tear on all components in my opinion.

I've ran CSF, Setrab, and Mishimoto products (oil coolers and radiators) in previous cars out of necessity. I would not do it unless it's absolutely required. My NISMO 370z was the worst when it came to on track temps.

I believe all NA cars have the additional coolant radiator. Euro cars don't have it I believe. Not sure about other regions.

How has your experience been with the BM3? Did you go with the Stage 2 91 oct map?

I will soon be getting a BM3 tune like that and although I have all the hardware covered (minus water-meth) Im somewhat concerned on how the tune will behave in Las Vegas temps around this time and summer!

[mahmut235]

Originally Posted by Estoril6rod

How has your experience been with the BM3? Did you go with the Stage 2 91 oct map?

I will soon be getting a BM3 tune like that and although I have all the hardware covered (minus water-meth) Im somewhat concerned on how the tune will behave in Las Vegas temps around this time and summer!

+1

I got all my mods in order (MPE, ER DP, VRSF CP, BMS intake)

Once the chargepipe and intake arrive and they're installed im going with bm3 (stage 2 93)

I would love feedback aswell as i live in Toronto and we have cold winters here and this is my daily

[Anthony235]

Originally Posted by Estoril6rod

How has your experience been with the BM3? Did you go with the Stage 2 91 oct map?

I will soon be getting a BM3 tune like that and although I have all the hardware covered (minus water-meth) Im somewhat concerned on how the tune will behave in Las Vegas temps around this time and summer!

Bm3 has been great so far. I run the OTS E30 map.

[amw896]

Originally Posted by mahmut235

+1

I got all my mods in order (MPE, ER DP, VRSF CP, BMS intake)

Once the chargepipe and intake arrive and they're installed im going with bm3 (stage 2 93)

I would love feedback aswell as i live in Toronto and we have cold winters here and this is my daily

I'm in windsor so close to you and run 93 octane stage 2 bm3. Like Anthony said, the car does a great job keeping the temps in check. I run the bm3 dashboard a lot to monitor and things are always running well.

[DrJones]

I will be checking this thread. Thanks for starting and for the posts so far. I have been wondering about temps (mainly engine) in the m235. I am running the JB4 (map 1) and the VRSF CP. The car seems to run hot to me (probably did before the JB4, just maybe not as hot?). I am not logging or anything (didn't get the bluetooth adapter, etc.). I have been toying with getting a FMIC, but have been told this will not help overall temps. I live in FL, so temps are high, and this is my daily.

[Estoril6rod]

Originally Posted by DrJones

I will be checking this thread. Thanks for starting and for the posts so far. I have been wondering about temps (mainly engine) in the m235. I am running the JB4 (map 1) and the VRSF CP. The car seems to run hot to me (probably did before the JB4, just maybe not as hot?). I am not logging or anything (didn't get the bluetooth adapter, etc.). I have been toying with getting a FMIC, but have been told this will not help overall temps. I live in FL, so temps are high, and this is my daily.

You're welcome!

Btw whoever told you a FMIC will not help with overall temps is a total ignorant! A tuned car and hell even a stock car exposed to high ambient temperatures should definitely receive an upgrade in the intercooling department! The high temperatures of turbo compressed air will need to be kept in check by a more robust intercooler to avoid the DME pulling back on power, I would also suggest an upgraded downpipe to help the EG's exit quicker and avoid backing up and excessively heating the turbo housing.

[DrJones]

Originally Posted by Estoril6rod

You're welcome!

Btw whoever told you a FMIC will not help with overall temps is a total ignorant! A tuned car and hell even a stock car exposed to high ambient temperatures should definitely receive an upgrade in the intercooling department! The high temperatures of turbo compressed air will need to be kept in check by a more robust intercooler to avoid the DME pulling back on power, I would also suggest an upgraded downpipe to help the EG's exit quicker and avoid backing up and excessively heating the turbo housing.

Thanks for the info! Good to know about the DP and the heat of the turbo - I have been working with tuning cars for a few years but only still novice with all of the info and how things work. I am more of a plug and play kind of guy (hence not logging etc.). All of this is to my disadvantage (but at least I am aware, for better or worse).

As far as the DP goes, I have read about some kind of smell due to a DP. Is this from a catless DP only, due to the EGs not being "cleaned"? Or this smell from any DP? Or is this something that I have wrong? Thanks for info.

[jmwilson125]

Originally Posted by DrJones

Thanks for the info! Good to know about the DP and the heat of the turbo - I have been working with tuning cars for a few years but only still novice with all of the info and how things work. I am more of a plug and play kind of guy (hence not logging etc.). All of this is to my disadvantage (but at least I am aware, for better or worse).

As far as the DP goes, I have read about some kind of smell due to a DP. Is this from a catless DP only, due to the EGs not being "cleaned"? Or this smell from any DP? Or is this something that I have wrong? Thanks for info.

High flow will smell a little bit, and no cat will smell a little bit more. I have run both, the smell really isn't that bad or potent.

Hard to quantify because you don't really smell the stock exhaust. But from high flow to catless I'd say there's only 10% increase in smell. Catless will probably make a small amount more power, and will evacuate heat more quickly.

If you are really interested in temp management you can look at cermic coatings for exhaust headers and cat to help keep the heat in and away from the engine. Also turbo blankets to keep the heat in the turbo and not the engine bay. I really don't think either of those options are needed on this vehicle, or even close to worth the cost.

I'd look at fmic upgrade, and wmi kits for keeping temps in check. Also keep the stock intake with a drop in filter. Or replace with another sealed intake. You could insulate the intake piping and reflect-a-gold it to reject more radiant heat. Minimal cost for those options, but also probably looking at minimal gains.

[mahmut235]

Originally Posted by amw896

I'm in windsor so close to you and run 93 octane stage 2 bm3. Like Anthony said, the car does a great job keeping the temps in check. I run the bm3 dashboard a lot to monitor and things are always running well.

What are your mods along with stage 2?

[amw896]

Originally Posted by mahmut235

What are your mods along with stage 2?

ER charge pipe and catless downpipe, Wagner competition inter cooler.

[mahmut235]

Originally Posted by amw896

ER charge pipe and catless downpipe, Wagner competition inter cooler.

Hmm sounds great, how much did a shop quote for the charge pipe install? Mines x drive so i want to know how much i should put aside for the install as the part should come anyday now

[amw896]

Originally Posted by mahmut235

Hmm sounds great, how much did a shop quote for the charge pipe install? Mines x drive so i want to know how much i should put aside for the install as the part should come anyday now

it was a hair under 500$ cad tax included. I think it was 4hrs labour total which I thought was really good.

[mahmut235]

Originally Posted by amw896

it was a hair under 500$ cad tax included. I think it was 4hrs labour total which I thought was really good.

No way thats way more than i thought. I was expecting like an hour. Thats crazy why is it so much?

[amw896]

Originally Posted by mahmut235

No way thats way more than i thought. I was expecting like an hour. Thats crazy why is it so much?

LOL - sorry, i meant 4 hours for all 3. I think he said it was about an hour for the charge and downpipe and then 2 hrs for the intercooler. PM me if you have any questions, I don't want to thread jack :P

[DrJones]

Originally Posted by jmwilson125

High flow will smell a little bit, and no cat will smell a little bit more. I have run both, the smell really isn't that bad or potent.

Hard to quantify because you don't really smell the stock exhaust. But from high flow to catless I'd say there's only 10% increase in smell. Catless will probably make a small amount more power, and will evacuate heat more quickly.

If you are really interested in temp management you can look at cermic coatings for exhaust headers and cat to help keep the heat in and away from the engine. Also turbo blankets to keep the heat in the turbo and not the engine bay. I really don't think either of those options are needed on this vehicle, or even close to worth the cost.

I'd look at fmic upgrade, and wmi kits for keeping temps in check. Also keep the stock intake with a drop in filter. Or replace with another sealed intake. You could insulate the intake piping and reflect-a-gold it to reject more radiant heat. Minimal cost for those options, but also probably looking at minimal gains.

Thanks for the additional info. I doubt I will do ceramic coated headers or turbo blankets or even reflect-a-gold. But this is good stuff (especially for this thread)! I will look into the FMIC and possibly the downpipe. I am planning to keep the OEM intake anyway...upgraded intake sound is good, but I'm fine w/o.

[Alfonso235i]

Originally Posted by DrJones

Thanks for the additional info. I doubt I will do ceramic coated headers or turbo blankets or even reflect-a-gold. But this is good stuff (especially for this thread)! I will look into the FMIC and possibly the downpipe. I am planning to keep the OEM intake anyway...upgraded intake sound is good, but I'm fine w/o.

Hey Dr. Jones!
I am in south Florida and can tell you that our cars run pretty hot with or without tune. I have the jb4 Bluetooth App and have tested in Map 0 and it gets to about the same temperature in city driving. During hard driving in highways or backroads it will warm up quicker with the tune.
But like other have mentioned in this thread a Dp significantly reduces temperature in the engine bay. I am easily 30 degrees cooler most of the time since I installed at catless dp. It can still get to the same high temps around 240-45 (oil) and up to 125-35 (iat) if driving in the heat and stopping at lights, but when driving on highway or cruising without much traffic the car runs much cooler than before. Even if you drive the hell out of it it stays much cooler than before.
I do not have an intercooler yet but I'm sure that will most definitely lower iat when cruising. I'm sure that in heavy traffic they will still get to similar temperatures.
Im glad this thread was started. I will definitely subscribe to this.

[Anthony235]

Oil wise you should never really see above 240*. That's when the thermostat in the oil cooler opens up. In extreme heat and stop and go traffic you may see it get passed 240*, but that should be rare. If it approaches 270-280* I would be very worried.

On a side note; 240* for the thermostat is way too high in my opinion. On a street car I would expect 200*.

On my aftermarket oil cooler I had it setup for 180*.

[Jeff@TopGearSolutions]

If it's a question of cooling oil temps, an oil cooler would be needed and removal/change of the factory thermostat.

If you want more cooling of the water, that can be adjusted with custom flash tuning in the DME.

If the adjustments in the DME cannot counteract or should I say efficiently keep temperatures in check, a radiator upgrade would then be needed.

[XutvJet]

An upgraded intercooler will help when you're driving the car hard and making long pulls. In daily driving though? Nope. Why? Because when you're sitting at lights and putting around at slow speeds and stop and go traffic, there's very little air moving through the induction piping and intercooler. Plus the engine bay can get rather hot thus heat soaking the induction pipes and the radiator heat soaking the intercooler. Not until you get up to a steady state higher speed cruise (40mph+) does enough air start flowing through the noted systems and engine bay to start pulling the heat away, thus dropping the intake air temps (IATs). No matter how large the intercooler or other cooling system upgrades, you're still going to face high IATs during normal driving, especially in the warmer months. Plus, the high ambient temps and humidity in the warmer months results in less oxygen in the air. All these factors result in increased turbo lag, less power in the low and midrange, and muddy throttle response, especially on tip-in. Yes, most late model turbos do increase boost to account for the lack of oxygen in summer air and give you decent max power in the higher rpms, but you're still going to get more lag and reduced throttle response in the low and midrange as the turbo contends with the crap air and humidity. There's no way to get around that.

[Shayan55]

Ive ran the ots stg2 bm3 map on several track days and run every session and I rarely see temps raise too high its been behaving great!