[M3 n X5M]

Originally Posted by bradleyland

Definitely read the review rather than just watch the video. I think the answer to this question (in bold) can be found in two sources:

1) The two excerpts I posted regarding spirit and purpose:

Spirit and purpose
They built this car for grassroots racing enthusiasts.

Accessibility continues to be the driving force behind this car.

2) The fact that the M2 isn't done with development. It has been said elsewhere that BMW M intends to take lessons learned from the M235i Racing, and incorporate them in to the M2. That will give the M2 an immediate racing pedigree, which I think is a very savvy move on BMW M's part.

As for the stock cooling and transmissions system, just have a look at the price point. The key word here is accessibility. At €60k, this is the bargain of the century for homologation racing. Every change you make from the stock car costs additional money. The review says that BMW have tested the car extensively and the stock components are up to the challenge (with software tweaks). Presumably, this means they have expanded the safety envelope for limp mode so that the race car can run hotter. This isn't a car that they expect to go 100,000 miles under an extended factory warranty. It's a race car. Things are going to break.

This whole thing (the M235i Racing and delayed M2 release) is very strategic on BMW's part; they're definitely playing chess here. The strategy for the M235i Racing is to provide a gateway to grassroots racing at an accessible price point, while building a racing pedigree for the 2-series that will be used to support the marketing of the M2 as a spiritual successor to the E30 M3. Look for BMW to lean heavily on the notion of the M2 as a race car for the street.

This is similar to what Ferrari did with the 288 GTO before launching the F40. Homologation was key to research the mechanicals in the F40 through the GTO.

At 81k this is a great car.

Maybe the cooling will suffer in very hot weather but who cares? I am thinking this car will be raced in a M235 series somewhere and we will all hear about it. Like the Ferrari challenge cup or the Porsche 911 cup using a normally aspirated engine back in the late 90s. In recent years, VW did a diesel study with their Jetta TDI cup cars. I think they ran those 2 years.

[shivaswrath]

Originally Posted by bradleyland

Definitely read the review rather than just watch the video. I think the answer to this question (in bold) can be found in two sources:

1) The two excerpts I posted regarding spirit and purpose:

Spirit and purpose
They built this car for grassroots racing enthusiasts.


Accessibility continues to be the driving force behind this car.


2) The fact that the M2 isn't done with development. It has been said elsewhere that BMW M intends to take lessons learned from the M235i Racing, and incorporate them in to the M2. That will give the M2 an immediate racing pedigree, which I think is a very savvy move on BMW M's part.

As for the stock cooling and transmissions system, just have a look at the price point. The key word here is accessibility. At €60k, this is the bargain of the century for homologation racing. Every change you make from the stock car costs additional money. The review says that BMW have tested the car extensively and the stock components are up to the challenge (with software tweaks). Presumably, this means they have expanded the safety envelope for limp mode so that the race car can run hotter. This isn't a car that they expect to go 100,000 miles under an extended factory warranty. It's a race car. Things are going to break.

This whole thing (the M235i Racing and delayed M2 release) is very strategic on BMW's part; they're definitely playing chess here. The strategy for the M235i Racing is to provide a gateway to grassroots racing at an accessible price point, while building a racing pedigree for the 2-series that will be used to support the marketing of the M2 as a spiritual successor to the E30 M3. Look for BMW to lean heavily on the notion of the M2 as a race car for the street.

Having flogged my fatter, heavier F30 on LimeRock for 4 20 minute sessions, I'll share the following re: cooling:
1. Oil cooler desperately needed.
2. Larger intercooler desperately needed.
3. Unsure if we need a Tranny cooler.

With all that said, I hit limp mode at the end of Run 3 on a warm fall day (these are full throttle 20 minute sessions so I was glad). And then again at the end of Run 4. I'm positive in a lighter car, with better tuning (I'm running the PPK so similar numbers to the M235i), and more cooling, I could've made it through the entire day without issue.

[dmboone25]

Originally Posted by ///M235i

Welcome back form the 1980's. I hear automatic transmissions back then were terrible! I am glad you are here now. You are safe. We will protect you.


PS: I only drive MT cars, but if I'm racing and I'm counting on fractions of seconds to advance me, I want and auto or DCT. Period. Autos are much more capable IMO from a performance standpoint. They are just faster. No two ways about it. You could have made some kind of logical argument against that statement maybe 5-10 years ago? Manuals on the other hand are more enjoyable to drive, more engaging and just all around badass. Everyone gets that. But personally, I would not want one on the track. It's a liability. Just imagine missing ONE shift, and your whole lap time is down the drain. Not even to mention the much quicker up shifts, rev matched downshifts and convenience of having the paddles right there, never facing the need take your hands off the wheel to up/down shift mid corner or on exit.

+1 well said. You drive a MT with your heart. You drive a comuter assisted auto/DCT when fractions of seconds count.

They don't count on the way to work or spirited canyon carving. But they do matter in a race. I don't race, so MT works best for putting a grin on my face. But if every second mattered, gotta go with the best technology available.

[bradleyland]

Originally Posted by shivaswrath

Having flogged my fatter, heavier F30 on LimeRock for 4 20 minute sessions, I'll share the following re: cooling:
1. Oil cooler desperately needed.
2. Larger intercooler desperately needed.
3. Unsure if we need a Tranny cooler.

With all that said, I hit limp mode at the end of Run 3 on a warm fall day (these are full throttle 20 minute sessions so I was glad). And then again at the end of Run 4. I'm positive in a lighter car, with better tuning (I'm running the PPK so similar numbers to the M235i), and more cooling, I could've made it through the entire day without issue.

I don't doubt that you ran in to those issues, but BMW is saying that they tested the car extensively and applied software changes only. Obviously I don't have any insider information, but my guess is that they just expanded the "safe" operational envelope.

For a production car that people will drive for 100,000 miles, you want a tight operating envelope for things like engine and turbo temperature. This is especially true when your service intervals are as long as BMW's.

With the race car, they might specify a different grade of oil and far more frequent service intervals. I can't imagine racing twice on the same oil, for example. Given those changes, it would be possible to allow the car to run hotter before encountering limp mode. Yes, the turbos are probably going to bite the bullet far before they would under the production car operating envelope, but that might be an acceptable consequence.

I'm just speculating here, but I think the important take away is that you can't infer things like when the car will encounter limp mode based on production car parameters, because many of these are controlled by software. For all we know, the production parameters are extremely conservative to protect the car against obstinate end-users.