[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by kmli5

mate because of the soft bushings, the subframe is constantly bouncing around and majorly affecting for the car's ability to put the power down. not to mention axle tramp.

He's not talking about tramp or axle hop though. He's complaining about a lack traction when going from a straight or fairly straight stop and roll run. His problem is with the tires. If he wants traction in the winter, he should consider winter performance tires. They actually hook really well because the rubber is so pliable and the tread sweeps and grabs the pavement. In 60+ degree weather, he should consider a wider drag radial type tire.

Sure, he can buy some bushings but it's not going to help those tires plant in those acceleration situations. He'll see.

There's good reason why Vettes, Vipers, Camaros, and Stangs run really wide rear rubber. .....not just for cornering.

[Mywifes335]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

He's not talking about tramp or axle hop though. He's complaining about a lack traction when going from a straight or fairly straight stop and roll run. His problem is with the tires. If he wants traction in the winter, he should consider winter performance tires. They actually hook really well because the rubber is so pliable and the tread sweeps and grabs the pavement. In 60+ degree weather, he should consider a wider drag radial type tire.

Sure, he can buy some bushings but it's not going to help those tires plant in those acceleration situations. He'll see.

There's good reason why Vettes, Vipers, Camaros, and Stangs run really wide rear rubber. .....not just for cornering.

With the Apex 18x9.5 ET58 rears I have and a 12.5mm spacer, the 265 PSS barely fit. There isnt much room on the inside of the wheel well. Anyone running wider rubber than 265?

[Pparana]

Originally Posted by Mywifes335

With the Apex 18x9.5 ET58 rears I have and a 12.5mm spacer, the 265 PSS barely fit. There isnt much room on the inside of the wheel well. Anyone running wider rubber than 265?

If your breaking 265 loose at speed it's not tires its suspension. Unless the tires are corded. Street tires gain traction as they wear in dry weather as there is less tread squish. You can heat cycle street tires, but you have to get them really hot several times, almost impossible unless you track. Drag strip won't do it. If they are they would feel hard and crappy all the time.

Super sports are worse in cold but not that bad, I drove sport cup 2s on a c7 z06 from fl to ny in March, ended up 500 miles in sub freezing and snow. Yeah not optimum traction, but still did 85-90 most of the way, once you have heat in them your fine, provided road is clear of snow.

If the wheel is spinning then traction control would engage and then It's time to look at tires. If not its suspension.

The stock arms, bushings, springs and shocks are close to there limit with stock power. Add more and youll need upgrades to plant it. Bigger ties put more grip, which means more load and forces on the suspension.

I would do the outer lca and any other bushings you see fit. If that does not solve I would do th subframe a diff bushings, mine as well throw the LSD in then as you have to drop rear subframe to do bushings. All of the bushings in these cars are soft, and very complaint, exact same as in a 3 series. They are not sport oriented.

With 5 link rear you would have to disassemble to check bushings, you can't just grab a part and shake it, unless the bushings are falling out.

The bushings I removed looked fine, once removed I could move them around with a bolt in the hole, new was not possible. I noticed mine on highway, felt loose under acceleration, sometimes like wobble, sometimes like car wanted to go left then right like no traction. The bushing when worn allows the tire to toe in and out quite a bit independently on each side making for odd handling traits.

Honestly I would do the lca bushings on a stage one car.

[Pparana]

Originally Posted by rwalker

Thanks for the recommendations!

You don't have pics of your failed LCA bushings, do you? I may just do LCAs and call it a day.

Also: how's NVH with all that poly?

I may still have them at shop, but they look fine visually however you can move them around a few mm with a bolt in the hole, a new one has no movement. You won't have any additional nvh with outer lca bushings. Really any suspension bushings until you do the subframe, as the subframe bushings are extremely soft and compliant, like jello cups from a nusing home.

[HP Autosport]

Sounds like temperature related since you mentioned it's colder now. Most performance tires don't have much traction in low temps.

Even a stock car should be LSD equipped. Do you have one on the car?

[Mywifes335]

Originally Posted by HP Autosport

Sounds like temperature related since you mentioned it's colder now. Most performance tires don't have much traction in low temps.

Even a stock car should be LSD equipped. Do you have one on the car?

No LSD... on my "to do" list for 2017. $2,100 is the best price I found and the local shop wants $600 for the install. Cost more than my Pure stage 2, LOL.

[rwalker]

Originally Posted by Pparana

I may still have them at shop, but they look fine visually however you can move them around a few mm with a bolt in the hole, a new one has no movement. You won't have any additional nvh with outer lca bushings. Really any suspension bushings until you do the subframe, as the subframe bushings are extremely soft and compliant, like jello cups from a nusing home.

The stock parts are ball joints, not bushings? Poly replacements for ball joints would seem counter-indicated, but perhaps you can share your rationale?

You've tried FCM, Superpro and now you're on Powerflex, right? Can you speak to your experiences with each?

[x233]

Originally Posted by Pparana

rear lca bushings, outer.

Pparana, please, in the picture below what number are referring to?



Thanks.

[Pparana]

Originally Posted by x233

Pparana, please, in the picture below what number are referring to?



Thanks.

3

[Pparana]

Originally Posted by rwalker

The stock parts are ball joints, not bushings? Poly replacements for ball joints would seem counter-indicated, but perhaps you can share your rationale?

You've tried FCM, Superpro and now you're on Powerflex, right? Can you speak to your experiences with each?

they are not ball joints, as the end would have to be in the joint (like your knee socket), they are a spherical bearing. The movement is for compliance and NVH. A rubber bushing would not function on that movement arc. I call them bushings as do most manufacturers. Calling them spherical bearings will confuse people, when they are in theory being used as a bushing.

With upgraded power, the bearing wears out of spec quickly allowing a lot of movement, and undesirable handling traits like the op has. I tried the fcm because I could not find an aftermarket poly one. By going poly and eliminating the bearing, you have very little compression and almost no movement.

The superpro parts are not listed for our cars, but the same oem part number is used in other makes so I searched for them using other makes. The Superpro are the diff and subframe, I did not use them in the lca.

There is no noticeable difference in NVH, esp. if you have oem subframe mounts. You could change every bushing to poly if you have the oem subframe, it will not transmit much as they are very soft.


I use this car mostly at track, but is by no means a race car. My rule for license plate cars is they have to pass the wife sleeping test. If she can't fall asleep while I am driving at speed, I am not smooth enough or the car is setup wrong. You do not have to give up comfort for feel, you just have to setup properly.

[Dylan86]

Going to be doing my rear sway bar soon, and diff bushings. What is the rest of the recipe while I'm in there Pparana?

[Anthony235]

Originally Posted by Dylan86

Going to be doing my rear sway bar soon, and diff bushings. What is the rest of the recipe while I'm in there Pparana?

Rear sway bar only and stiffer bushings? Should be interesting to drive.

[Dylan86]

Originally Posted by Anthony235

Rear sway bar only and stiffer bushings? Should be interesting to drive.

All the feedback I've seen suggests that the front sway is not only a huge PITA, but negligible handling differences? Is this not so? I know a rear only sway bar mod is very common among the masses (primarily my VW/Audi background). It's not a matter of price or time spent on labour, so should I be looking to do both? I guess if so, I should do it all when I'm in there. It's a Hotchkis sway bar, fwiw..

I have the M-Performance LSD already, but I can feel the slop in regards to rear end weight transfer especially down shifting on the off camber sweepers to and from work. I have a 4% downhill grade on my way to work and when going 4-3-2 downhill heavy on the brakes, is when I notice it the most. Would just like things to feel more crisp and less "sloppy" so to speak. It's really quite minor, but to me, noticeable enough to want to mitigate..

I was hoping the sway bar, diff bushings and rear sub-frame bushings would compliment my KW Clubsports and remedy some of that slop. I'm really only doing the rear sway bar because I'll be doing the diff/sub-f bushings, thought I'd take of everything while my rear end is down..

Should be tackling all of this mid May, provided work slows down and I get a weekend to myself

D

[Anthony235]

Originally Posted by Dylan86

All the feedback I've seen suggests that the front sway is not only a huge PITA, but negligible handling differences? Is this not so? I know a rear only sway bar mod is very common among the masses (primarily my VW/Audi background). It's not a matter of price or time spent on labour, so should I be looking to do both? I guess if so, I should do it all when I'm in there. It's a Hotchkis sway bar, fwiw..

I have the M-Performance LSD already, but I can feel the slop in regards to rear end weight transfer especially down shifting on the off camber sweepers to and from work. I have a 4% downhill grade on my way to work and when going 4-3-2 downhill heavy on the brakes, is when I notice it the most. Would just like things to feel more crisp and less "sloppy" so to speak. It's really quite minor, but to me, noticeable enough to want to mitigate..

I was hoping the sway bar, diff bushings and rear sub-frame bushings would compliment my KW Clubsports and remedy some of that slop. I'm really only doing the rear sway bar because I'll be doing the diff/sub-f bushings, thought I'd take of everything while my rear end is down..

Should be tackling all of this mid May, provided work slows down and I get a weekend to myself

D

I used to run a rear only bar set to siffest (whiteline bar), but that was in my Evo. Popular with AWD (like the Audi's you mentioned) and FWD cars (VW's you mentioned) because it helps the back end rotate (generally).

Not usually suggested for RWD cars. Are you AWD? Still on a stagger wheel/tire setup?

I run the KW Clubsport also and square 255s. With your DA coilovers adjusted correctly and LSD I find it hard to believe you're getting much "slop" in the rear. In my opinion the factory sways on this car are more than adequate when the rest of the car is properly setup. Unless you're trying to get that last few percent out of the car and ROI is a non-issue. Even then I'm not sure how doing a rear only bar would benefit the actual handling of the car.

From your description it sounds like it could be how you're driving the car. No offense, just sounds like you might be unsettling the car by your driving technique.

[Bee Pee]

Powerflex now have assorted bush inserts to tighten up rear subframe and diff mountings for Bmw F2x anf F3x.....

https://www.powerflex.co.uk/road-ser...s+-3189/1.html

[Dylan86]

Originally Posted by Anthony235

I used to run a rear only bar set to siffest (whiteline bar), but that was in my Evo. Popular with AWD (like the Audi's you mentioned) and FWD cars (VW's you mentioned) because it helps the back end rotate (generally).

Not usually suggested for RWD cars. Are you AWD? Still on a stagger wheel/tire setup?

I run the KW Clubsport also and square 255s. With your DA coilovers adjusted correctly and LSD I find it hard to believe you're getting much "slop" in the rear. In my opinion the factory sways on this car are more than adequate when the rest of the car is properly setup. Unless you're trying to get that last few percent out of the car and ROI is a non-issue. Even then I'm not sure how doing a rear only bar would benefit the actual handling of the car.

From your description it sounds like it could be how you're driving the car. No offense, just sounds like you might be unsettling the car by your driving technique.

The car is super composed, and not really an issue, more or less just something I wanted to address one shot while the car is down for a few days. It could be more the dinan/oem suspension than the bushings too. I'll just get the front Hotchkis bar on order and might as well get their uprated sway bar links while I'm at it. Will report back in my own thread once this is all done. Just wanted to shed some light into the rear-only swaybar topic

And it's more or less drive line weight transfer between shifts (as if I had worn diff or subrame bushings) that I'm talking about. It's not noticeable unless I'm really digging. And since I'm getting this feedback on my weekend mountain tours, I figured it would be amplified with R compound tires and the KW's on track. I'm currently on Dinan springs, and the car needs to be stiffer, hence the Clubsports. They are going in same time as sway bar, bushings and all that. I am still getting familiar with the car, but my shifting (heel/toe) is smooth as silk and have penciled that out as being my issue, lol..

[SteveInfante]

[QUOTE=Pparana;21037964]

Originally Posted by Mywifes335

Thanks. I was wondering, which pieces are attributing to the torque bias when throttle is applied?[/QU


rear lca bushings, outer. Feels like a wheel is loose or a wobble under acceleration?

you can swap to Poly. I have replaced them with poly, other arms with adjustable arms with spherical bearings and the sub and diff mounts with poly. I replaced them 3 times with stock before I found poly ones from superpro. Stock ones lasted about 1000 track miles until I added meth, then I went through a set each day, then poly. No problems since.

You have to remove the arm to properly check the bushing, doubtful they did this unless you got a 2 plus hour labor bill.

Will those upgraded parts direct bolt to my 228? I'm building my track build parts list.

[Anthony235]

Originally Posted by Dylan86

The car is super composed, and not really an issue, more or less just something I wanted to address one shot while the car is down for a few days. It could be more the dinan/oem suspension than the bushings too. I'll just get the front Hotchkis bar on order and might as well get their uprated sway bar links while I'm at it. Will report back in my own thread once this is all done. Just wanted to shed some light into the rear-only swaybar topic

And it's more or less drive line weight transfer between shifts (as if I had worn diff or subrame bushings) that I'm talking about. It's not noticeable unless I'm really digging. And since I'm getting this feedback on my weekend mountain tours, I figured it would be amplified with R compound tires and the KW's on track. I'm currently on Dinan springs, and the car needs to be stiffer, hence the Clubsports. They are going in same time as sway bar, bushings and all that. I am still getting familiar with the car, but my shifting (heel/toe) is smooth as silk and have penciled that out as being my issue, lol..

If you haven't actually installed the clubsports yet I would do that first and then get a good alignment and corner balance. If you're so sensitive to the weight transfer then you will want to do that anyway. Just my thoughts on it. Good luck.

[Dylan86]

Originally Posted by Anthony235

If you haven't actually installed the clubsports yet I would do that first and then get a good alignment and corner balance. If you're so sensitive to the weight transfer then you will want to do that anyway. Just my thoughts on it. Good luck.

Absolutely having it corner balanced, just need to get to Vancouver to have it done as there's no services like that in my region. Just ordered the Hotchkis F Sway and stab links. I wasn't intending on installing my track setup until next spring but I might just get er done and move onto brakes. It never ends..

D

[Anthony235]

Originally Posted by Dylan86

Absolutely having it corner balanced, just need to get to Vancouver to have it done as there's no services like that in my region. Just ordered the Hotchkis F Sway and stab links. I wasn't intending on installing my track setup until next spring but I might just get er done and move onto brakes. It never ends..

D

I will probably stick with the OEM sway, but would like to do the end links one day. I'll be getting my next set of tires soon and I'll do a new alignment spec and corner balance as well. I think the chassis on this car is stiff enough to warrant a corner balance (if you track the car). Like my old s2000. Not so much my nismo 370z.

[Dylan86]

Originally Posted by Bee Pee

Powerflex now have assorted bush inserts to tighten up rear subframe and diff mountings for Bmw F2x anf F3x.....

https://www.powerflex.co.uk/road-ser...s+-3189/1.html

Only thing I can seem to source here in North America is the LCA bushings. I've tried 3 of their NA suppliers and none even have access to the new numbers.

That said, am I safe to go ahead with Superpro F30 rear sub-frame bushings? SPF3946K Doesn't say anywhere that it fits F22, but from what I've learned it's all the same?

Any help would be great, these are the last bits to the puzzle for me.

D

[Pparana]

Originally Posted by Dylan86

Only thing I can seem to source here in North America is the LCA bushings. I've tried 3 of their NA suppliers and none even have access to the new numbers.

That said, am I safe to go ahead with Superpro F30 rear sub-frame bushings? SPF3946K Doesn't say anywhere that it fits F22, but from what I've learned it's all the same?

Any help would be great, these are the last bits to the puzzle for me.

D

Yes, it is what I installed, don't forget the diff bushings, any f 3 series bushings will be compatible, many companies don't list under 2 series.