[AJM4]

The car is great. But I can't believe that the 3 series has dropped out of that list. Even with the m3/4 I don't under stand the color choices that were made standard. I think some of these decisions will cost them in the long run. Yet that being said Austin yellow is growing on me

[bladeomatic]

Originally Posted by red-sauerkraut

You could be a private eye and drive an Accord because nobody would notice you.

More like it puts you to sleep.

Honda needs to wake up.

Honda builds cars for mom's and dads to drive their kids to school and get to work in. They build one of the market leaders that has been on everyone's top lists for decades. Their attention to ergonomics and cockpit design is stuff that BMW could learn a few things from. If I have any BMW that is as reliable as my old Honda was, I'll be shocked.

Their reliability and sales are legendary. Back in the day, my old 10 year old 2000 v6 Accord would smoke my wife's 2005 Lexus V6 in every category of driving performance…and get better mpg to boot. Even though her car was 5 years newer, from a premium maker and cost $10k more. They are not marketing to the premium luxury audience. They TRY to do that (poorly) via their Accura brand.


So take a midsized Camry, Buick, Chevy, Ford or any other sedan in the low $20k range out for a test drive and then get in an Accord and tell which one is the better all-around car.

So I'm curious what exactly Honda should be doing differently with their Accord that won't lead to reduced reliability and lower sales?

[Hops128i]

echoing others here, i think the 3-series name break was at the e90. Sometimes at work, my 128i is parked by a e46 coupe, and it looks much more related to my car than it is to the e90. The ancestral line for me is:
e30 -> e36 -> e46 -> e82 -> f22

[bladeomatic]

Originally Posted by fcman

Agreed, it's a sad day when a fake M with a slushbox is the best drivers car BMW makes.

I said it on another thread and I'll say it here.

Folks should be grateful that the M235i has an M on it.

It's received incredible praise and IMO is helping restore the luster:

"BMW's return to roots"
"Party-sized M3"
"Fun as hell to drive"
'Favorite BMW in 10 years"
-etc.

The M3/4, which are the standard bearers for the entire company have been caught or passed by many of their competitors. These elite "M" cars are no longer smoking all comers.

So after the hallowed M3/4, what are we left with in the M division? Brontosaurus-sized living rooms like the M6 coupe that push well past $100k and have none of the soul that a driver's car should have???
If you want to have discussions about ripping M badges off cars, let's start there vs. the M235i.

If folks are frustrated that all cars of today aren't as raw/edgy as their ancestors of yesteryear, we'll I can commiserate with that. But when BMW gets something SO right as they did with the M235i (Fast, fun, good mpg, comfy, attractive, affordable), the world is going to take notice…and has.

Instead of pooh-poohing that it's not "a true M car", ask yourself what really is today?

Simply put, the M235i is the best car that BMW makes.
Not faster/sportier than the M3/4, or plush as the M5, but the best car within it's respective class.

-It's why it's smoking most comparisons (A3/4, MB CLA)
-It's why virtually all reviews on it are glowing
-It's why C&D put it on it's 10 best
-It's why Consumer Reports rated it the highest BMW ever (topping the 911 and Corvette)

I'm not seeing the brand new M3/4 getting this much hoopla. And certainly not the M5/6 series. So enjoy that this little upstart is returning some shine to the M division and then rejoice that there's a sinister M2 peeking out from around the corner.

[zkeeper]

1+ Plus above. Well stated, bladeomatic.

[ORIGIN M.]

Originally Posted by bladeomatic

Honda builds cars for mom's and dads to drive their kids to school and get to work in. They build one of the market leaders that has been on everyone's top lists for decades. Their attention to ergonomics and cockpit design is stuff that BMW could learn a few things from. If I have any BMW that is as reliable as my old Honda was, I'll be shocked.

Their reliability and sales are legendary. Back in the day, my old 10 year old 2000 v6 Accord would smoke my wife's 2005 Lexus V6 in every category of driving performanceand get better mpg to boot. Even though her car was 5 years newer, from a premium maker and cost $10k more. They are not marketing to the premium luxury audience. They TRY to do that (poorly) via their Accura brand.


So take a midsized Camry, Buick, Chevy, Ford or any other sedan in the low $20k range out for a test drive and then get in an Accord and tell which one is the better all-around car.

So I'm curious what exactly Honda should be doing differently with their Accord that won't lead to reduced reliability and lower sales?

Honda should fire their designers and start making something exciting after all these years.

They don't even make one exciting car, or sports car. Not one !

[norMcal]

The new 3 series is like a Lexus to me. It is a nice car, has quality, luxury and some sportiness, but it is a far cry from what I want. At the same time I understand that BMW is pleasing the masses because that is where the profit is, but I never understood why they can't make at least one or two cars for the enthusiasts, when they can make a shitload of unnecessary models. The M235 is a step in the right direction. I still don't think it is a real pretty car and it lacks some performance attributes, but hopefully the M2 will fix that.

Had BMW offered the M235 a few years ago, I might have gotten one, but after owning E36's, E46's and e90's I decided that a new VW GTI and a used E30 M3 was a better way to spend $50k.

[bladeomatic]

Originally Posted by tallshortguy

The only way this would be indicated is if a rival in it's segment made the list, which none have.

Not really.

The C&D 10 best is not about best car in each category. It's about cars that significantly exceed their standard. There doesn't have to be a compact luxury class in there, or roadster or convertible. But if there's a huge standout in that class, it can make the list. The fact that BMW 3 series and it's rivals aren't on the list doesn't mean they suck. It just means there no clear-cut all star in that segment. If the 3 series and the Audi 4 were both stellar examples of that class, then both could have been on the list.

Another example is the Accord and Mazda6. They're both roughly in the same bracket (low $20k midsize family car), but both are standouts from their competition, which is why both are on the list.

The 3 series being absent is about it not being the uber-standout in that category anymore. It's still a fine car, it's just not WAY better than the its rivals.

[hyperzulu]

Originally Posted by IB M

The King is dead. Long live the new King.

M235i at Charlotte autoshow today.

Seriously that looks like an M6 in the background. Crazy...

[HarmOG]

Originally Posted by bladeomatic

Simply put, the M235i is the best car that BMW makes.
Not faster/sportier than the M3/4, or plush as the M5, but the best car within it's respective class.
I'm not seeing the brand new M3/4 getting this much hoopla. And certainly not the M5/6 series. So enjoy that this little upstart is returning some shine to the M division and then rejoice that there's a sinister M2 peeking out from around the corner.

I agree whole-heartedly. I spent A LOT of time shopping for a car that was fun to drive, didn't feel like an econo car and was in my price range. I really wanted a sedan, but when I stepped into the 2 series, it was a done deal.

Nothing else on the market was even remotely close in my opinion.

[fcman]

Originally Posted by bladeomatic

I said it on another thread and I'll say it here.

Folks should be grateful that the M235i has an M on it.

It's received incredible praise and IMO is helping restore the luster:

"BMW's return to roots"
"Party-sized M3"
"Fun as hell to drive"
'Favorite BMW in 10 years"
-etc.

The M3/4, which are the standard bearers for the entire company have been caught or passed by many of their competitors. These elite "M" cars are no longer smoking all comers.

So after the hallowed M3/4, what are we left with in the M division? Brontosaurus-sized living rooms like the M6 coupe that push well past $100k and have none of the soul that a driver's car should have???
If you want to have discussions about ripping M badges off cars, let's start there vs. the M235i.

If folks are frustrated that all cars of today aren't as raw/edgy as their ancestors of yesteryear, we'll I can commiserate with that. But when BMW gets something SO right as they did with the M235i (Fast, fun, good mpg, comfy, attractive, affordable), the world is going to take notice…and has.

Instead of pooh-poohing that it's not "a true M car", ask yourself what really is today?

Simply put, the M235i is the best car that BMW makes.
Not faster/sportier than the M3/4, or plush as the M5, but the best car within it's respective class.

-It's why it's smoking most comparisons (A3/4, MB CLA)
-It's why virtually all reviews on it are glowing
-It's why C&D put it on it's 10 best
-It's why Consumer Reports rated it the highest BMW ever (topping the 911 and Corvette)

I'm not seeing the brand new M3/4 getting this much hoopla. And certainly not the M5/6 series. So enjoy that this little upstart is returning some shine to the M division and then rejoice that there's a sinister M2 peeking out from around the corner.

I'm not arguing that the M235i is not a great car. More pointing out how sad it is that BMWs bread and butter, the M3 is a worse car than a car that isn't really even a true M. If the M235i is getting such good reviews, the proper M-car, the M2, could very well be battling with the GT3 for the top spot. I've got my deposit ready.

[tallshortguy]

Originally Posted by bladeomatic

Not really.

The C&D 10 best is not about best car in each category. It's about cars that significantly exceed their standard. There doesn't have to be a compact luxury class in there, or roadster or convertible. But if there's a huge standout in that class, it can make the list. The fact that BMW 3 series and it's rivals aren't on the list doesn't mean they suck. It just means there no clear-cut all star in that segment. If the 3 series and the Audi 4 were both stellar examples of that class, then both could have been on the list.

Another example is the Accord and Mazda6. They're both roughly in the same bracket (low $20k midsize family car), but both are standouts from their competition, which is why both are on the list.

The 3 series being absent is about it not being the uber-standout in that category anymore. It's still a fine car, it's just not WAY better than the its rivals.

Once again the F30 was on the list the last 3 years, the only change to the segment from last year to this year is the new c class which did not make the list. The 3 series got replaced by the 2 series, like I mentioned in another thread if the 2 series did not exist I guarantee you the 3/4 would have that spot.

[augerpro]

+1 bladeomatic!!

If self-regarded purists would take once second to look at the SPIRIT of an M car (rather than technicalities over naming) I would say the M235i not only deserves the M badge, but is probably the ONLY BMW worthy of it today.

[kd0t]

I don't understand all the fuss about being a fake 'M car.' What's the big deal?

Lexus did the same with their F-Sport line and you literally do not get anything more than aesthetics. BMW gives you aesthetics and a bit of performance.

If you'd take a look, a lot of manufacturers are doing this..

Lexus: F-Sport
Audi: S-Line
Mercedes: AMG, although the don't decorate the car with it..

[Rupes]

Originally Posted by tallshortguy

Once again the F30 was on the list the last 3 years, the only change to the segment from last year to this year is the new c class which did not make the list. The 3 series got replaced by the 2 series, like I mentioned in another thread if the 2 series did not exist I guarantee you the 3/4 would have that spot.

Where does it say in the C&D article that the 2 series replaced the 3 series on the list? Does the 2 series come as a sedan now too? Does BMW get guaranteed placement on C&D's list so only one can make the list (yet two Mazda's make the cut somehow)?

Perhaps it's time to recognize the 3 series was not replaced, but fell off the list because it's no longer the entry level luxury benchmark sedan/coupe it used to be. C&D has been saying that ever since the F series came out.

[DSTR]

Originally Posted by kd0t

I don't understand all the fuss about being a fake 'M car.' What's the big deal?

Lexus did the same with their F-Sport line and you literally do not get anything more than aesthetics. BMW gives you aesthetics and a bit of performance.

If you'd take a look, a lot of manufacturers are doing this..

Lexus: F-Sport
Audi: S-Line
Mercedes: AMG, although the don't decorate the car with it..

+1 - BMW made it and named it. Its hardly fake. If so then some of you should drive to Munich, Im happy to supply the google maps for you, and take this up with management.

Other than that the so called 'purists' who think they own the brand and company after buying a depreciating M car asset should go and drive something else.

Its an M235i made by BMW to a fair amount of acclaim. So there is an issue lol ????? I dont see any other than so called 'fan boy's who have bruised ego's and a sense of silly entitlement.

Im tempted to buy another for my garage. Why not 2 lol!

[bladeomatic]

Originally Posted by Rupes

Perhaps it's time to recognize the 3 series was not replaced, but fell off the list because it's no longer the entry level luxury benchmark sedan/coupe it used to be.

Ding! We have a winner.

What he said.

[bladeomatic]

Originally Posted by DSTR

+1 - Other than that the so called 'purists' who think they own the brand and company after buying a depreciating M car asset should go and drive something else.

Its an M235i made by BMW to a fair amount of acclaim. So there is an issue lol ????? I dont see any other than so called 'fan boy's who have bruised ego's and a sense of silly entitlement.

LOL!

Sometimes the "M" conversation feels like it belongs in an old Grey Poupon advertisement

https://search.yahoo.com/search;_ylt...n%20commercial

[hyperzulu]

Originally Posted by tallshortguy

Once again the F30 was on the list the last 3 years, the only change to the segment from last year to this year is the new c class which did not make the list. The 3 series got replaced by the 2 series, like I mentioned in another thread if the 2 series did not exist I guarantee you the 3/4 would have that spot.

So what you're saying is that the M235i competes with the 3/4 series and beat its bigger brothers.

[samtnel]

Originally Posted by bladeomatic

I said it on another thread and I'll say it here.

Folks should be grateful that the M235i has an M on it.

It's received incredible praise and IMO is helping restore the luster:

"BMW's return to roots"
"Party-sized M3"
"Fun as hell to drive"
'Favorite BMW in 10 years"
-etc.

The M3/4, which are the standard bearers for the entire company have been caught or passed by many of their competitors. These elite "M" cars are no longer smoking all comers.

So after the hallowed M3/4, what are we left with in the M division? Brontosaurus-sized living rooms like the M6 coupe that push well past $100k and have none of the soul that a driver's car should have???
If you want to have discussions about ripping M badges off cars, let's start there vs. the M235i.

If folks are frustrated that all cars of today aren't as raw/edgy as their ancestors of yesteryear, we'll I can commiserate with that. But when BMW gets something SO right as they did with the M235i (Fast, fun, good mpg, comfy, attractive, affordable), the world is going to take notice…and has.

Instead of pooh-poohing that it's not "a true M car", ask yourself what really is today?

Simply put, the M235i is the best car that BMW makes.
Not faster/sportier than the M3/4, or plush as the M5, but the best car within it's respective class.

-It's why it's smoking most comparisons (A3/4, MB CLA)
-It's why virtually all reviews on it are glowing
-It's why C&D put it on it's 10 best
-It's why Consumer Reports rated it the highest BMW ever (topping the 911 and Corvette)

I'm not seeing the brand new M3/4 getting this much hoopla. And certainly not the M5/6 series. So enjoy that this little upstart is returning some shine to the M division and then rejoice that there's a sinister M2 peeking out from around the corner.

[danimal]

Very pleased to see the 3 Series drop off the list. It just wasn't worthy anymore.

Also very pleased to see the M235i added to the list. Definitely worthy.

Not so pleased they didn't give the award to the whole 2 Series line, though. Did they just not drive the 228i or did they actually consider it unworthy?

Edit

I just remembered that the 228i 8AT lost to the A3 in a comparison test (mostly due to not-so-grippy runflats), so they probably figured they'd have too much explaining to do if they included it in their 10 Best.

[whoosh]

MotorTrend ripped on the car when it first came out for all of the M badges on it. It's really no different than the previous gen M-sport cars and all the badges on there. So M is in the model name now... who cares? That boat sailed long ago when M became part of the model designation for SUV's (sorry, SAV's).

Anyone who really cares already knows it's not an M2. Anyone who is bothered by the fact that a non-enthusiast might confuse an M235i with a future M2 is taking the concept of "first world problems" to an entirely new standard of ridicule.