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      08-16-2014, 12:34 AM   #1
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M235i Vs Golf R *Chris Harris Review*

Just thought this was a good video of Chris Harris showing off the Golf R and the M235i!

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x23...s-on-cars_auto
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      08-16-2014, 12:50 AM   #2
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      08-16-2014, 11:55 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Killramos
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Where is the original post? I haven't seen any discussion of this review on here.
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      08-16-2014, 12:46 PM   #4
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      08-16-2014, 01:38 PM   #5
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Can't watch the video at work. Can I get some cliffs?
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      08-16-2014, 01:42 PM   #6
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If the Golf R 400 ever gets made that would be a hard blow.
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      08-16-2014, 02:40 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Delnari View Post
If the Golf R 400 ever gets made that would be a hard blow.
I think you would end up with a very large case of platform with to much power.

Basically like driving an 80's f1 car on streets.
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      08-16-2014, 02:41 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timsev
Can't watch the video at work. Can I get some cliffs?
Golf - better chassis, better engine, more usable.
M235i - more fun, better noise and feel. Has the LSD. He pics it over the golf.
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      08-16-2014, 08:01 PM   #9
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It was a bit of a unique perspective; the monkey likes the R engine and more usable chassis, but feels the 235 is more fun with a better sound.

While the M gets what appears a slight nod, given the $13K difference in price, it seems like the Golf is the winner.
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      08-16-2014, 09:33 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by abp689 View Post
It was a bit of a unique perspective; the monkey likes the R engine and more usable chassis, but feels the 235 is more fun with a better sound.

While the M gets what appears a slight nod, given the $13K difference in price, it seems like the Golf is the winner.
I like CH but again he doesn't mention the fact that VW doesn't allow you disable ESP in the US. Thank the attorneys.

For that reason alone BMW gets the nod. It's bad enough the gubmint mandates all these nannies, but to hell with any vehicle that prohibits me from turning it all off for track days.
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      08-16-2014, 10:44 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dwvcfii
I like CH but again he doesn't mention the fact that VW doesn't allow you disable ESP in the US. Thank the attorneys.

For that reason alone BMW gets the nod. It's bad enough the gubmint mandates all these nannies, but to hell with any vehicle that prohibits me from turning it all off for track days.
VW has said the ESP will be able to be totally disabled in the R MKVII in the US, FYI.
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      08-16-2014, 11:24 PM   #12
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I'm scratching my head as to why they chose to compare what was otherwise two utterly different cars. One is technically a hot hatch while the other is a sports coupe. Comparing the two cars is like comparing broccoli to carrots. Sure they are vegetables, but totally different.
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      08-17-2014, 12:10 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scottomfg View Post
VW has said the ESP will be able to be totally disabled in the R MKVII in the US, FYI.

I got excited after the review and just go back from driving Mk7 GTI manual. Traction control disable button is there!

Chris is right, the chassis is very nice and the brake feel is much improved over the MkV my wife drives. Electric steering was OK too. Man, if it was rear drive, it's only 26K. Still a fan of the GTI. Can't wait to see the R model but as Chris said, I really want rear drive and MT.

I also re-drove the 228i and I think that is a great little car and feels a bit livelier. I'm just having a hard time going from 1M to that much less power. It would be so nice if I could just get the M235i with Euro Alcantara, fixed suspension and I'll put up with the silly display/idrive/two button ac control no comfort access.

Part of why some of us are interested in R, is because its AWD and while no one disputes RWD is better, AWD is not as big a drop off as FWD.

I really want to re-drive M235i again, but none in stock anywhere!
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      08-17-2014, 07:36 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scottomfg View Post
VW has said the ESP will be able to be totally disabled in the R MKVII in the US, FYI.
That seems counterintuitive. Is that snap oversteer issue I've read about (the one that reportedly prompted ESP locked on) any less likely on the R? I doubt it.
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      08-17-2014, 08:24 AM   #15
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I must say the Golf R is quite an appealing car, based on reviews I've watched plus the price is much lower than the M235i. Yea the M235i is a sports coupe, but the M135i is still way more expensive compared to the Golf. If money wasn't an object I would pick the M235i like Chris. But when there's a 8.000€ price difference in my country, if you spec both similairly, before even putting an LSD on the M235i, I don't think the M235i is worth +10.000€ more. Even the 228i with similair equiptment is more expensive. I think the Golf R is a real bargain for the performance it offers. Never thought I'd like a Golf so much...
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      08-17-2014, 02:32 PM   #16
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One thing I don't think I heard mentioned in this video was whether the Golf R w/ manual could be heel-toed. I had zero luck in the '15 (MK7) GTI I test drove, due to the throttle no longer being floor hinged and too much spacing between pedals. For most people, this is probably a non issue, but for me, it's part of joy of driving a manual, and the 2 Series is beautifully set up for it. So, that was almost a deal breaker for the VW in itself. I also didn't like the FWD feel at all, and the mid-range punch in the GTI engine seemed lacking vs. the 228i's. I don't have numbers to back up that impression, though, and the R is of course a different story altogether.
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      08-18-2014, 01:46 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Killramos View Post
I think you would end up with a very large case of platform with to much power.
Basically like driving an 80's f1 car on streets.
Watch the video. He thinks the R has more chassis/brakes than the M235i.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dwvcfii View Post
I like CH but again he doesn't mention the fact that VW doesn't allow you disable ESP in the US. Thank the attorneys.

For that reason alone BMW gets the nod. It's bad enough the gubmint mandates all these nannies, but to hell with any vehicle that prohibits me from turning it all off for track days.
Traction control is fully defeatable on the Mk7 Golf R. How do think he makes the car go nice and sideways in the vid?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dwvcfii View Post
That seems counterintuitive. Is that snap oversteer issue I've read about (the one that reportedly prompted ESP locked on) any less likely on the R? I doubt it.
You need to read up on the Mk7 GTI and R. It is an entirely different chassis which is very well balanced.

This is a very interesting comparison, and one that may not make sense to some people. His bottom line in the review is that the Golf R is the better car but he prefers the M235i due to 6 cylinder and RWD, that's it. You choose one of these cars over the other because either you want a RWD 6 cyl coupe that can get a little hairy at times, or you want an AWD hatch that is better sorted out. They are otherwise equal and you can't really say one is better than the other unless you insert your personal needs into the equation... until you look at price which is >$10k different when you consider LSD in the 235i.
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      08-18-2014, 02:56 PM   #18
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^Agree with everything you say here but for me the appearance of the Golf R is a real negative and a major "do not buy" flag. I like the size of the package but it's completely lacking in any "I gotta have it" curb appeal.

This problem is compounded in NA, where we will only get the even more awkward-looking 4-door version.
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      08-18-2014, 03:02 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Devon K View Post
^Agree with everything you say here but for me the appearance of the Golf R is a real negative and a major "do not buy" flag. I like the size of the package but it's completely lacking in any "I gotta have it" curb appeal.

This problem is compounded in NA, where we will only get the even more awkward-looking 4-door version.
Exactly this. It remains a Golf.
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      08-18-2014, 03:17 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Transfer View Post
Watch the video. He thinks the R has more chassis/brakes than the M235i.


Traction control is fully defeatable on the Mk7 Golf R. How do think he makes the car go nice and sideways in the vid?


You need to read up on the Mk7 GTI and R. It is an entirely different chassis which is very well balanced.

This is a very interesting comparison, and one that may not make sense to some people. His bottom line in the review is that the Golf R is the better car but he prefers the M235i due to 6 cylinder and RWD, that's it. You choose one of these cars over the other because either you want a RWD 6 cyl coupe that can get a little hairy at times, or you want an AWD hatch that is better sorted out. They are otherwise equal and you can't really say one is better than the other unless you insert your personal needs into the equation... until you look at price which is >$10k different when you consider LSD in the 235i.
QFT

You know, when I watched the video, I was a little unnerved over the fact that a 35k+ hatch may outperform my new M235i - and I just came out of a MKVI GTI with an APR tune.

That being said, Chris Harris' perspective comes from a very focused viewpoint - how the car(s) performs while driving and nothing else. Not that there is anything wrong with that - he is a performance reviewer and we are (mostly) enthusiasts.

However, other things may be taken into consideration between the two cars - especially since, per Chris Harris, he could take one car over the other depending on how he feels. Whatever faults the M235i has in comparison to the Golf R are apparently so minor that he would take the M235i because of the engine noise and "fun" factor, and despite the fact that the motor/chassis/brakes aren't quite as good as the Golf.

Also, and this kind of depends on your take (or wants from a car). In my experience with my GTI (which, despite the MQB platform enhancements, is relatively similar in some respects with the MK 7 line) is that the car just ... doesn't feel as nice. I don't know what it is. Maybe its the build quality (lots of rattles in my GTI, none in the BMW), or the leather, or the iDrive system (which I happen to like), or the gearbox, or whatever, but I really fell in love with my M235i in a way that I never did with my GTI. I really don't know how to describe it.

That being said, Chris Harris is a pro driver - the Golf R is an awesome car, and if he says its a teensy bit better than the M235i re: pure performance, I'll believe him, but I'll probably never notice the difference because I could never use either car in the way he is able to.
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      08-18-2014, 03:31 PM   #21
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Danimal is right pedal placement is not as good 235i. But as Chris said he disregards some foibles in the BMW. The golf is an awesome platform if you carry more than 2 people and the suspension does feel better sorted in current gti. I still would rather BMW tweak a few things but you gotta love what the golf r is doing at that price point!
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      08-19-2014, 12:32 AM   #22
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Great comparison! What an entertaining, perceptive chap that Chris Harris is.

The Golf R's wheelbase is a bit shorter than the M235i's, right? Would it be correct to think that the M235i would be a better cruiser, more stable?
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