What am I missing?

Brenzo · 10-07-2014, 01:17 PM

I'm in the early negotiation stage (currently on an extended test drive) of a loaded M235i with xDrive and can't figure out why the monthly lease rate is so high compared to what I am calculating myself. For comparison purposes, I am using the iLease Car Pro application.

MSRP: $54,115
Discount: $1,000
Selling Price: $53,115
Fees: $387.27
Sales Tax: $2,632.20 (rolled into monthly payment)

Trade Allowance: $17,000
Trade Payoff: $11,871

Residual: 60%
MF: .000129

36 Months / 15,000 miles

$687.93/month

When I input the same financials into the application, it spits out a monthly payment of $610.92.

Before I go back and make an ass of myself, I'd like to know if anyone here has any insight?

Thanks in advance for any help!

Cal · 10-07-2014, 02:08 PM

What's the acquisition fee? Are you paying that up front, or rolled it into the lease? Also, $1k off is too little, especially with $500 coming from BMW (innovation credit). You should be able to do a lot better than that.

Lucky13 · 10-07-2014, 02:09 PM

I came up with a payment under $600 a month. I'd have them break out the detail and calculation by email so you can prepare ahead of time. The way I read this you have a net down payment of $5,129, allowance minus loan payoff. Something is way off.

Brenzo · 10-07-2014, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cal

What's the acquisition fee? Are you paying that up front, or rolled it into the lease? Also, $1k off is too little, especially with $500 coming from BMW (innovation credit). You should be able to do a lot better than that.

Total due at signing would be $1,075.20. This is first month's payment plus the following fees:

Document Fee: $166.27
Electronic Filing: $25.00
Registration: $101.00
Title: $95.00

Total Fees: $387.27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lucky13

I came up with a payment under $600 a month. I'd have them break out the detail and calculation by email so you can prepare ahead of time. The way I read this you have a net down payment of $5,129, allowance minus loan payoff. Something is way off.

I know, I keep coming back to a number closer to $600 as well. I'd understand it being higher if I wasn't trading in a car with $5,129 in equity, which essentially acts as a down payment, no?

Lucky13 · 10-07-2014, 02:52 PM

They are off by about $80 month on two different sites I calculated on. Something has to be off on the trade/down payment to be off that much. I got $610 on the last site I used. Double check the money factor quote as well in the paperwork, I had the dealer try and change mine to .00016 from .00013 to recoup money. Demand a detail calculation in writing instead of just a monthly payment number.

I even calculated the $387 into your payments not up front, mine were included in my payments about $700 total.

Brenzo · 10-07-2014, 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lucky13

They are off by about $80 month on two different sites I calculated on. Something has to be off on the trade/down payment to be off that much. I got $610 on the last site I used. Double check the money factor quote as well in the paperwork, I had the dealer try and change mine to .00016 from .00013 to recoup money. Demand a detail calculation in writing instead of just a monthly payment number.

I even calculated the $387 into your payments not up front, mine were included in my payments about $700 total.

I'm waiting to get back a quote without my trade-in accounted for. We were over the phone discussing the calculation and both got to the same monthly depreciation value:

$53,115 less $31,917 residual = $21,198 / 36 months = $588.83 monthly depreciation payment.

Then I calculated the money factor payment portion:

$53,115 + $31,917 residual = $85,032 x 0.00129 MF = $109.69 money factor (interest) monthly payment.

Lastly, I calculated what my taxes would add to my monthly payment:

($588.83 + $109.69) x .0725 = $56.52

The total comes out to:

$588.83
+109.69
+56.52
$755.04 *Note: I am seeing $749 in some online calculators, but moot point.

This is all without a trade-in.

When I add a trade-in valued at $5,128 the monthly payment drops to $589+/- per month.

Look, I understand the dealership has to make a little bit of money, but still...

Lucky13 · 10-07-2014, 05:18 PM

Residual is based on list price not negotiated price so 60% of $54,114 is $32,469. I don't totally understand the above calculations since I've never seen it done like that. There's plenty of on line calculators.

Brenzo · 10-07-2014, 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lucky13

Residual is based on list price not negotiated price so 60% of $54,114 is $32,469. I don't totally understand the above calculations since I've never seen it done like that. There's plenty of on line calculators.

Sorry, I found an explanation of calculations on Edmunds.com and just broke it out above like that. Regardless, I'm still getting to a monthly payment of $749 without a trade-in and $589 with the trade-in.

See, that's what I thought (regarding residual price) but the rep wrote out that residual value was $31,917, which isn't even 60% off the selling price of $53,115.

Lucky13 · 10-07-2014, 07:03 PM

It's always based off sticker, MSRP or list which in this case is the $54,115 so the dealer is full of crap. Offer to buy them a new calculator. A lower residual helps if your going to buy it at the end of the lease but you pay a lot more for depreciation.

Brenzo · 10-08-2014, 06:57 AM

I just wanted to provide an update here. I went back to the dealership last night and after more than two hours of negotiation, I eventually got them down to a number much closer to what I was seeing with the trade-in. I casually mentioned that I wish I had gone to the Ultimate Drive Event and they were able to "find" some additional incentives and do some creative tax credit works to bring the payment down to something that fit in my budget.

At the end of the day, I got to drive home in my brand new M235i and I LOVE this car!

Cal · 10-09-2014, 12:03 AM

Congrats Brenzo! They had plenty of margin from the original $1k off MSRP (which is actually only $500 off since the other 500 is innovation credit). Glad they were willing to give you more off to meet your budget (or as they said, find some additional incentives elsewhere). Now post some pics when you get a chance!

Brenzo · 10-09-2014, 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cal

Congrats Brenzo! They had plenty of margin from the original $1k off MSRP (which is actually only $500 off since the other 500 is innovation credit). Glad they were willing to give you more off to meet your budget (or as they said, find some additional incentives elsewhere). Now post some pics when you get a chance!

Here's a sneak peak. I'm gonna have to get some quality time with the DSLR.

10-07-2014, 01:17 PM	#1
Brenzo Private First Class 10 Rep 123 Posts Drives: 2015 M235i xDrive Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Chicago, IL iTrader: (0)	What am I missing? I'm in the early negotiation stage (currently on an extended test drive) of a loaded M235i with xDrive and can't figure out why the monthly lease rate is so high compared to what I am calculating myself. For comparison purposes, I am using the iLease Car Pro application. MSRP: $54,115 Discount: $1,000 Selling Price: $53,115 Fees: $387.27 Sales Tax: $2,632.20 (rolled into monthly payment) Trade Allowance: $17,000 Trade Payoff: $11,871 Residual: 60% MF: .000129 36 Months / 15,000 miles $687.93/month When I input the same financials into the application, it spits out a monthly payment of $610.92. Before I go back and make an ass of myself, I'd like to know if anyone here has any insight? Thanks in advance for any help!
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10-07-2014, 02:08 PM	#2
Cal Second Lieutenant 31 Rep 214 Posts Drives: BMWs, NSX. Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: CA iTrader: (0)	What's the acquisition fee? Are you paying that up front, or rolled it into the lease? Also, $1k off is too little, especially with $500 coming from BMW (innovation credit). You should be able to do a lot better than that.
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10-07-2014, 02:09 PM	#3
Lucky13 Lucky13 211 Rep 1,762 Posts Drives: 2014 M235 manual, 2020 X3 30X Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Columbia, S.C. iTrader: (0)	I came up with a payment under $600 a month. I'd have them break out the detail and calculation by email so you can prepare ahead of time. The way I read this you have a net down payment of $5,129, allowance minus loan payoff. Something is way off. __________________ 1995 325i, 1996 328ci, 1997 528i, 1997 Z3 2.8, 2000 528i, 2001 X5 3.0, 2001 330i Convertible, 2002 M3 Convertible, 2003 M3 Coupe, 2004 M3 Coupe, 2004 Z4 3.0, 2004 X3 3.0, 2007 X3 3.0, 2007 335i Convertible, 2013 X1 28 sdrive, 2014 M235 manual, 2020 X3 30i Xdrive
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10-07-2014, 02:52 PM	#5
Lucky13 Lucky13 211 Rep 1,762 Posts Drives: 2014 M235 manual, 2020 X3 30X Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Columbia, S.C. iTrader: (0)	They are off by about $80 month on two different sites I calculated on. Something has to be off on the trade/down payment to be off that much. I got $610 on the last site I used. Double check the money factor quote as well in the paperwork, I had the dealer try and change mine to .00016 from .00013 to recoup money. Demand a detail calculation in writing instead of just a monthly payment number. I even calculated the $387 into your payments not up front, mine were included in my payments about $700 total. __________________ 1995 325i, 1996 328ci, 1997 528i, 1997 Z3 2.8, 2000 528i, 2001 X5 3.0, 2001 330i Convertible, 2002 M3 Convertible, 2003 M3 Coupe, 2004 M3 Coupe, 2004 Z4 3.0, 2004 X3 3.0, 2007 X3 3.0, 2007 335i Convertible, 2013 X1 28 sdrive, 2014 M235 manual, 2020 X3 30i Xdrive Last edited by Lucky13; 10-07-2014 at 03:06 PM..
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10-07-2014, 05:18 PM	#7
Lucky13 Lucky13 211 Rep 1,762 Posts Drives: 2014 M235 manual, 2020 X3 30X Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Columbia, S.C. iTrader: (0)	Residual is based on list price not negotiated price so 60% of $54,114 is $32,469. I don't totally understand the above calculations since I've never seen it done like that. There's plenty of on line calculators. __________________ 1995 325i, 1996 328ci, 1997 528i, 1997 Z3 2.8, 2000 528i, 2001 X5 3.0, 2001 330i Convertible, 2002 M3 Convertible, 2003 M3 Coupe, 2004 M3 Coupe, 2004 Z4 3.0, 2004 X3 3.0, 2007 X3 3.0, 2007 335i Convertible, 2013 X1 28 sdrive, 2014 M235 manual, 2020 X3 30i Xdrive
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10-07-2014, 07:03 PM	#9
Lucky13 Lucky13 211 Rep 1,762 Posts Drives: 2014 M235 manual, 2020 X3 30X Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Columbia, S.C. iTrader: (0)	It's always based off sticker, MSRP or list which in this case is the $54,115 so the dealer is full of crap. Offer to buy them a new calculator. A lower residual helps if your going to buy it at the end of the lease but you pay a lot more for depreciation. __________________ 1995 325i, 1996 328ci, 1997 528i, 1997 Z3 2.8, 2000 528i, 2001 X5 3.0, 2001 330i Convertible, 2002 M3 Convertible, 2003 M3 Coupe, 2004 M3 Coupe, 2004 Z4 3.0, 2004 X3 3.0, 2007 X3 3.0, 2007 335i Convertible, 2013 X1 28 sdrive, 2014 M235 manual, 2020 X3 30i Xdrive
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10-08-2014, 06:57 AM	#10
Brenzo Private First Class 10 Rep 123 Posts Drives: 2015 M235i xDrive Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Chicago, IL iTrader: (0)	I just wanted to provide an update here. I went back to the dealership last night and after more than two hours of negotiation, I eventually got them down to a number much closer to what I was seeing with the trade-in. I casually mentioned that I wish I had gone to the Ultimate Drive Event and they were able to "find" some additional incentives and do some creative tax credit works to bring the payment down to something that fit in my budget. At the end of the day, I got to drive home in my brand new M235i and I LOVE this car!
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10-09-2014, 12:03 AM	#11
Cal Second Lieutenant 31 Rep 214 Posts Drives: BMWs, NSX. Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: CA iTrader: (0)	Congrats Brenzo! They had plenty of margin from the original $1k off MSRP (which is actually only $500 off since the other 500 is innovation credit). Glad they were willing to give you more off to meet your budget (or as they said, find some additional incentives elsewhere). Now post some pics when you get a chance!
	Appreciate 0 Quote