[nomade30]

Originally Posted by boostm3

So you pretty much agree with what Ive written; BMW can detect when a car has been flash tuned.

Yep. If push comes to shove they'll pull the modules and analyze them deeply and this will usual reveal anything, including boot access count.

It's better to just accept the fact that they you may be liable for anything after tuning it, but I would always recommend going back to stock before going to the dealer as this seems to keep people under the radar. I bet this car wasn't flagged until it went into the dealer with a tune on it for this diff problem, if it didn't have the tune on it on the time of inspection this whole thread might not exist.

[mjsaville]

Wise words above.....

[boostm3]

Originally Posted by nomade30

Yep. If push comes to shove they'll pull the modules and analyze them deeply and this will usual reveal anything, including boot access count.

It's better to just accept the fact that they you may be liable for anything after tuning it, but I would always recommend going back to stock before going to the dealer as this seems to keep people under the radar. I bet this car wasn't flagged until it went into the dealer with a tune on it for this diff problem, if it didn't have the tune on it on the time of inspection this whole thread might not exist.

Sage advice! In '99, I bought a new E36M3, and a year later, since we got those American version engines with but 240hp, I needed more, but definitely didnt want to jeopardize my factory warranty.. So, since I had a Dinan affiliated BMW dealership near me, that seemed to fill the bill, so I went with enough Dinan mods to get me that spiffy DINAN badge on the rear trunk lid. This included a Vortech supercharger and a Dinan exhaust among other parts. Its easy to increase the boost in such equipment simply by swapping in a smaller pulley to drive the blower, which I did after a few months of ownership.. Nothing drastic; just a boost increase of a couple of lbs, supported by an Aquamist water injection kit to help cool the charge since the Dinan kit had no Charge Air Cooling . Subsequent to that I went with an RMS water-cooled aftercooler, but that has nothing to do with this story!

Recall that the Dinan warranty was supposed to step in to cover their parts for the length of the original factory warranty. So when I blew a weld in their muffler, I expected them to take care of it.. They didnt! Why not? They claimed that my pulley swap and resulting boost increase made me ineligible for coverage on the exhaust. I never bought into that as being the reason for the blown weld, but Dinan wouldnt budge.

So, even a seemingly unrelated modification is enough to void warranties, even for a performance company.

[Poochie]

Yep, that's what I trying to explain in my previous post. I went to a different dealer that I usually go to last week because my summer wheel was leaking air from the valve stem. I figure they would swap the sensor, and I'll be on my way..

The service writer was a dickhead (literally bald) from the second I walked in ("I have to go to lunch in 5 mins" he said) and first told me they don't cover TPMS sensors. I fought. Then afterwards he came and told me the sensor is leaking because I put too much air in the tire and there is Epoxy on the wheel. I need a new wheel also. (I didn't BTW).

I gave up and told him to bite me.. When I was leaving, the tech working on my car walked up to me in the parking lot and told me that it's just the gasket for the sensor was bad and to just buy the rebuilt kit. He also said it should be covered but the service writer is just being an a-hole. I tipped him and left..

$5 sensor gasket and $15 to replace and my wheel is still fine.

All warranty claims can be subjective and you're at the mercy of the dealer's asinine attitude.

boostm3

[Artemis]

As the car was not purchased at a BMW dealership, I added "(private)" to the thread title:
"A (private) dealer sold me an M2 with a flagged VIN... what do I do?"

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by boostm3

BMW can detect when a car has been flash tuned.

As cars get more advanced, more information than before is logged.

Car manufacturers can know more about what happened to their cars than the owners/drivers.

[chmura]

Originally Posted by Artemis

As cars get more advanced, more information than before is logged.

Car manufacturers can know more about what happened to their cars than the owners/drivers.

Most likely with connected cars BMW can send engine info remotely on the fly. The cars do not even need to go in for service.

Tesla currently does this right now.

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by chmura

Most likely with connected cars BMW can send engine info remotely on the fly. The cars do not even need to go in for service.
Tesla currently does this right now.

See for example: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/27/a...-tracking.html ("Cars Suck Up Data About You. Where Does It All Go?")

[djarchow]

Originally Posted by chmura

Most likely with connected cars BMW can send engine info remotely on the fly. The cars do not even need to go in for service.

Tesla currently does this right now.

I just picked up my new m2 last Friday. In the first 20 miles it popped up a message saying essentially that until my 1200 mile service it would be gathering engine diagnostic data and sending it back to BMW for "Quality Assurance" purposes.

[boostm3]

Originally Posted by djarchow

I just picked up my new m2 last Friday. In the first 20 miles it popped up a message saying essentially that until my 1200 mile service it would be gathering engine diagnostic data and sending it back to BMW for "Quality Assurance" purposes.

Seriously? I dont recall ever seeing that, but maybe I forgot.. Certainly would be timely in this discussion though.

[omasou]

Originally Posted by champignon

There's a lot of other stuff that goes on a CarFax or Autocheck report, that doesn't come from a dealer. If a car is in a significant accident and the police are involved, the accident will likely show up on the reports. This is especially true if (1) the car is towed afterwards; (2) an airbag or airbags deploy; or (3), one of the drivers is cited. If the car is issued a salvage or otherwise branded title, this will almost certainly show up, although "title washing" is not unheard of. Usually, still, there will be traces.

Registration data, entered by state and county DMVs is also recorded without any real involvement from selling or servicing dealers.

People selling cars with reported accidents, branded titles, etc., will almost universally say that the damage was minor, a fender bender, the car was given a salvage title because the insurance company wouldn't pay much for the repairs, etc. etc. etc. Run, don't walk, as soon as you start to hear this sort of thing.

This is the key part... will likely show up on the reports... There is absolutely no guarantee and again it depends if those agencies are incentivized to report the information.

old but probably still pretty accurate...

https://jalopnik.com/how-carfax-work...981/1639687668

Basically, if it's not automated and requires human intervention and that human is not getting a kickback in some form it ain't getting reported.

[pz619]

Originally Posted by stefan

Well hang on though.. how does that work exactly? Are those parameters really that tightly controlled? I doubt it. So if I take my M2 up Highwood pass in AB and the damn turbo is working overtime, is the dealer going to assume there's a tune on the car? Seems a little dubious. I mean I totally agree if you're running a piggyback but I just doubt the process.

I can't speak to the methods they use, but there are multiple stories of people (especially on the m3 forum) where they got flagged for a flash tune. BMW understands the coding of their cars and DME parameters far better than any vendor selling a tune. The way I see it, it doesn't matter how good some of these flash tunes are. It's highly unlikely they can change code/parameters of how the car works and BMW will not know if they look for it. From a software perspective it'll be pretty easy. If the code (computer code) is different than what BMW originally put in there, they will know it was tampered with.

Just like the saying goes, you gotta pay to play.

[Mdkcrf250r]

As a BMW SA I can say first hand the only time I’ve ever seen cars get flagged is when the BMW Area Manager visits the dealership and sees a car with a piggyback tune. Happened to one of my clients with a Dinan piggyback. I’m sure there are other ways and reasons vins get flagged but that’s all I’ve seen in my experience. I really highly doubt BMW would do any investigative work looking for flash tunes unless it’s a blown motor on an M5 or something crazy expensive and something the parts or repairs were on what’s called “teleclearing.” They can also remotely pull data from your car anytime for any reason as well.

[boostm3]

Originally Posted by Mdkcrf250r

As a BMW SA I can say first hand the only time I’ve ever seen cars get flagged is when the BMW Area Manager visits the dealership and sees a car with a piggyback tune. Happened to one of my clients with a Dinan piggyback. I’m sure there are other ways and reasons vins get flagged but that’s all I’ve seen in my experience. I really highly doubt BMW would do any investigative work looking for flash tunes unless it’s a blown motor on an M5 or something crazy expensive and something the parts or repairs were on what’s called “teleclearing.” They can also remotely pull data from your car anytime for any reason as well.

My dealership in Ct. told me they recently pulled the warranty on a car for coding. Now whether he meant coding, or flash tune, or was just trying to scare me I dont know, but that's what the Srvc Mgr told me.

[Mdkcrf250r]

Dealerships don’t flag vins that’s for Sure so he was most likely trying to scare you.

[Macphisto]

Bimmer is the correct term for BMW cars while Beemer and Beamer are used for BMW motorcycles.

[boostm3]

Originally Posted by Mdkcrf250r

Dealerships don’t flag vins that’s for Sure so he was most likely trying to scare you.

>> Long story short, my vin number comes up as "flagged" because apparently the car is tuned and boom, the entire warranty is voided. The differential error is possibly because of the tune, or they said I might need a new rear diff soon, which out of pocket would cost around 7k. F*** that.<<

So how is it that this is what the OP experienced?

[pz619]

Originally Posted by boostm3

>> Long story short, my vin number comes up as "flagged" because apparently the car is tuned and boom, the entire warranty is voided. The differential error is possibly because of the tune, or they said I might need a new rear diff soon, which out of pocket would cost around 7k. F*** that.<<

So how is it that this is what the OP experienced?

I had interpreted his statement as BMW (corporate) does the flagging rather than the independent/licensed dealership.

[boostm3]

Originally Posted by pz619

I had interpreted his statement as BMW (corporate) does the flagging rather than the independent/licensed dealership.

Interesting.. but thats not what it says. It says:

"The only time I’ve ever seen cars get flagged is when the BMW Area Manager visits the dealership and sees a car with a piggyback tune"

You might be correct, but there's no indication of that in this sentence. According to this, cars with flashes dont get flagged; only ones with Piggybacks do. And only when spotted by a BMW area mngr. That really doesnt account for the OP's experience.

[akkando]

Originally Posted by boostm3

My dealership in Ct. told me they recently pulled the warranty on a car for coding. Now whether he meant coding, or flash tune, or was just trying to scare me I dont know, but that's what the Srvc Mgr told me.

What did they void the warranty on, the mirrors?

[HTTP 410]

Originally Posted by Poochie

I am not knowledgeable about "Shadow Codes" but I do know that all ECUs are built on a re-writer-able EPROM system, which leads me to believe that a software flash will erase the old shadow codes.

Check you the link below, guys; it is a shameful example of a dealer spewing BS to deny a legit claim because of shadow codes and circumstantial evidence..

https://www.6post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1174774

While the ECU is stored in rewritable memory additional data could be stored elsewhere and not susceptible to a reflash.

[Cavpilot2k]

OP: Any updates/progress?