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      07-26-2015, 08:08 PM   #45
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Dave,

Take a spin in a 235xi and then tell us how you feel about 235xi and Xdrive too.

I drove both the 235i and 235xi side by side and there is a difference..But its for me it was negligable and I wanted Xdrive for Midwest Winters..
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      07-26-2015, 08:10 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Merc for hire View Post
Some of us enjoy the fact that our cars are putting the most power out of the engine to the rear tires while having the least weight.
This obsession for weight reduction is why cars like M3 CSL and Porsche 911 GT3 exist.

Live dangerously, it's more fun.
Totally get it, totally respect it..Hope you are enjoying the hell out of your cars!

For me? I love having Xdrive with snows those 5 mos of the year its winter...And I'm having a blast on my Michelin PSS when its 90 out there today.

Glad there are choices for all of us!!
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      07-31-2015, 11:28 AM   #47
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Glad to hear I'm not the only one who is enjoying their BMW with x-drive.
I wanted a year round "GERMAN" performance car that would stay planted in all weather conditions without the necessity of 2 sets of wheels and would go fast as stink!

Find me another German car under $50K that can compete with the M235xi?

Please dont say the S3. I test drove it and while I enjoyed the responsiveness of the 4 banger (I used to own an APR modified MKV GTI), once I drove the M235 it was all over. IMO, the M235 sh--s all over the S3 in terms of engine performance, steering/handling, cockpit ergonomics, cabin tech, Harmon Kardon stereo, sport seats and exterior styling.

I've previously owned a 2009 335i coupe with a Dinan suspension and purchased a winter wheel set for the 2.5 months out of the year to deal with snow and ice. What a PITA owning 2 sets of wheels are (finding storage, lugging them back and forth to my indy shop). I hated the inconvenience and it still did not handle with as much confidence as my M235xi riding on all season tires. Now mind you my 335i dry weather handling capabilities and road feel riding on Michelin PS2s was in another class. Absolutely phenomenal in conjunction with the Dinan suspension but still as a total package my M235xi is the best car I've ever owned. The engine is an absolute gem.
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      07-31-2015, 12:16 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobby66 View Post
The sports suspension on the F22 xdrive makes all the difference, feels and drives like a rear wheel car with the grip and traction of a GTR.
Totally true.

The handling and the grip of my 235xi in sport mode are insane
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      07-31-2015, 12:43 PM   #49
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I can't wait to get mine! I ordered with mixed summer PSS tires and will be running squared Michelin PA4 tires in the winter.
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      07-31-2015, 01:51 PM   #50
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The way I look at it is this....if Porsche makes a AWD vehicle the 911 Targa 4S, it cannot suffer to much.
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      07-31-2015, 09:53 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by haffl View Post
Glad to hear I'm not the only one who is enjoying their BMW with x-drive.
I wanted a year round "GERMAN" performance car that would stay planted in all weather conditions without the necessity of 2 sets of wheels and would go fast as stink!

Find me another German car under $50K that can compete with the M235xi?

Please dont say the S3. I test drove it and while I enjoyed the responsiveness of the 4 banger (I used to own an APR modified MKV GTI), once I drove the M235 it was all over. IMO, the M235 sh--s all over the S3 in terms of engine performance, steering/handling, cockpit ergonomics, cabin tech, Harmon Kardon stereo, sport seats and exterior styling.

I've previously owned a 2009 335i coupe with a Dinan suspension and purchased a winter wheel set for the 2.5 months out of the year to deal with snow and ice. What a PITA owning 2 sets of wheels are (finding storage, lugging them back and forth to my indy shop). I hated the inconvenience and it still did not handle with as much confidence as my M235xi riding on all season tires. Now mind you my 335i dry weather handling capabilities and road feel riding on Michelin PS2s was in another class. Absolutely phenomenal in conjunction with the Dinan suspension but still as a total package my M235xi is the best car I've ever owned. The engine is an absolute gem.
AWD only helps you go in the snow. Snow tires help you stop and turn. I hope you are nowhere near me when it is slippery. Having to have bodywork done is a LOT more inconvenient than putting appropriate tires on the car twice a year.
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      08-01-2015, 03:25 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krhodes1 View Post
AWD only helps you go in the snow. Snow tires help you stop and turn. I hope you are nowhere near me when it is slippery. Having to have bodywork done is a LOT more inconvenient than putting appropriate tires on the car twice a year.
Exactly...if he is driving fast as stink as he says. AW tires are fine on snow on an AWD vehicle but not if you don't slow down for the road conditions. A ditch may be in the future!
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      08-01-2015, 03:59 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sstarrx3 View Post
Exactly...if he is driving fast as stink as he says. AW tires are fine on snow on an AWD vehicle but not if you don't slow down for the road conditions. A ditch may be in the future!
They get full of them around here each winter with overconfident SUV/AWD drivers on all-seasons tires!
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      08-01-2015, 07:39 PM   #54
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Why anyone drives on snow with no-season tires when God blessed us with winter tires, is beyond me. I like to start and stop with authority in my AWD cars.
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      08-01-2015, 08:33 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Transfer View Post
Why anyone drives on snow with no-season tires when God blessed us with winter tires, is beyond me. I like to start and stop with authority in my AWD cars.
I understand it. Its a pain in the azz to deal with two sets if tires. I lived in Oregon and we got 400 inches a year in the mountains. I never had problems on AW tires the 10 years I lived there. That being said I drove like I did not have AWD on bad roads. I gave myself plenty of distance between cars and slowed the hell down. If you drive like you have a brain you dont need winter tires.
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      08-01-2015, 08:46 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sstarrx3 View Post
I understand it. Its a pain in the azz to deal with two sets if tires. I lived in Oregon and we got 400 inches a year in the mountains. I never had problems on AW tires the 10 years I lived there. That being said I drove like I did not have AWD on bad roads. I gave myself plenty of distance between cars and slowed the hell down. If you drive like you have a brain you dont need winter tires.
Until some bonehead without a brain does something stupid in front of you and you need to turn or stop. Yes, you can "get by" without appropriate tires. If I wanted to "get by" I would run winter tires all year round, because winter tires in the summer are WORLDS better than no-season tires in the winter. They just wear out faster. Certainly AWD is NOT a substitute for have the right rubber on the road. And with appropriate winter tires, you can run higher performance tires the rest of the year. A few feet of decreased stopping distance is the difference between a cold sweat shower and an insurance claim.
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      08-01-2015, 10:18 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krhodes1 View Post
Until some bonehead without a brain does something stupid in front of you and you need to turn or stop. Yes, you can "get by" without appropriate tires. If I wanted to "get by" I would run winter tires all year round, because winter tires in the summer are WORLDS better than no-season tires in the winter. They just wear out faster. Certainly AWD is NOT a substitute for have the right rubber on the road. And with appropriate winter tires, you can run higher performance tires the rest of the year. A few feet of decreased stopping distance is the difference between a cold sweat shower and an insurance claim.
If you are driving with appropraite distance between yourself and the guy in front on you at a safe speed for the conditions it won't be an issue. Winter tires are definitely superior though.
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      08-01-2015, 11:52 PM   #58
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I just like the ability to "safely" drive like a jackass all year round.

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      08-02-2015, 06:08 AM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sstarrx3 View Post
If you are driving with appropraite distance between yourself and the guy in front on you at a safe speed for the conditions it won't be an issue. Winter tires are definitely superior though.
Yeah, the problem comes when you have winter tires and your safe speed for the conditions is notably higher than that of the person in front of you, who's crawling along because he has the wrong tires for the situation.
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      08-02-2015, 07:30 AM   #60
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Originally Posted by Zooks527 View Post
Yeah, the problem comes when you have winter tires and your safe speed for the conditions is notably higher than that of the person in front of you, who's crawling along because he has the wrong tires for the situation.
I guess we all have our own definition of crawling. Its not a worry for me anymore. I live in the South where it almost never snows. If it does you stay home because most folks down here do not know how to drive in it. Our roads are so much better too.
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      08-02-2015, 07:32 AM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sstarrx3 View Post
If you are driving with appropraite distance between yourself and the guy in front on you at a safe speed for the conditions it won't be an issue. Winter tires are definitely superior though.
What's an appropriate distance when said bonehead slides across the centerline at you head on? Happened to me last winter. I was able to avoid them - might have been ugly had I been less prepared.
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      08-02-2015, 07:39 AM   #62
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Originally Posted by krhodes1 View Post
What's an appropriate distance when said bonehead slides across the centerline at you head on? Happened to me last winter. I was able to avoid them - might have been ugly had I been less prepared.
Yes...that one has happened to me too...it is scary.
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      08-02-2015, 08:03 AM   #63
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Originally Posted by sstarrx3 View Post
The way I look at it is this....if Porsche makes a AWD vehicle the 911 Targa 4S, it cannot suffer to much.
I own a 996 4S, and I've driven a number of RWD 996's. Yeah, the AWD 996 is ultimately going to be faster on the track just because there's more grip.

But is the RWD more entertaining? Well, yes, to a point, but you can never forget there's all that weight hanging out in the rear. Even the Porsche engineers can't change the laws of physics, and if you get too aggressive with the car it can still bite you, and it's going to happen earlier on the RWD car versus the AWD car. I've had it happen on both, and lucky for me I didn't bend or break anything. That being said if I had it to do all over again my preference would be a RWD Carrera versus AWD.

But my 235 (on order) is an AWD. The overriding factor for me is that it's going to be driven all winter, versus the Porsche which goes into hibernation each year.

Before I placed my order, I did have the opportunity to drive an AWD 235 and a RWD 235 back to back (both had all season tires) without any SA in the cars, so I was able to push them hard, really hard.

Not at all surprisingly at the limit the AWD tends to understeer somewhat more than the RWD. And yes, you can feel the extra weight, but you really have to be pushing the car hard before you notice it. I would think the vast majority of drivers would never discern the difference in handling, and the rest of us will notice the difference only when the car is driven super aggressively.

Just my opinion.
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      08-03-2015, 09:22 AM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sstarrx3 View Post
I guess we all have our own definition of crawling. Its not a worry for me anymore. I live in the South where it almost never snows. If it does you stay home because most folks down here do not know how to drive in it. Our roads are so much better too.
Well, I can use an example from last winter. It was 6:30 am, snowing, with about 4" of snow on an unplowed 3-lane limited access interstate highway. There was a group of about 5 of us, all in AWD vehicles with winter tires from the way everyone was handling. We had 1/2 mile of visibility, and were keeping about 50 yards between us. We had echeloned out so that there were 3 of us to the left half of the road and 2 on the right, with about 100 yards between any car and the car directly in front of it.

We were all going between 35 and 40 mph, all in control, and all able to stop well within our line of sight. Right up until we came upon someone in the center of the road, doing between 10 and 15 mph, and fishtailing at that speed. He was so out of it that there was no clean way around either side of him, and it took about 2 miles before he had the brains to move to the side and let the rest of us pass.

We were running in control and safe for the conditions at 35 mph. He was unsafe at 10. Almost all of that had to be tire selection.
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