[jdgamble]

So new to the car. 10k mile executive demo CPO. The car is a rocket, but it's almost spooky how much chassis movement there is under hard acceleration in low gears. Is this normal? I feel a little wheelspin, but the sensation is almost like torque steer in a FWD car. I'm coming from an 09 Carrera, which has pretty much unlimited traction, so that could be a factor.

Anyway... feedback appreciated.

Thanks.

[nachob]

Originally Posted by jdgamble

So new to the car. 10k mile executive demo CPO. The car is a rocket, but it's almost spooky how much chassis movement there is under hard acceleration in low gears. Is this normal? I feel a little wheelspin, but the sensation is almost like torque steer in a FWD car. I'm coming from an 09 Carrera, which has pretty much unlimited traction, so that could be a factor.

Anyway... feedback appreciated.

Thanks.

The torque difference from E90 and NA motors is very different. Full Torque hits at around 1800 RPM, coupled less rubber in the back, yes the new cars take throttle discipline. Tires are critical on these cars because there is not a lot of rubber.

Do you have the Supersports or Continentals? Contis are noticeably less traction. Regardless, you have to learn to manage more torque with less traction.

Finally, there is no limited slip by default on these cars unless you added aftermarket. This makes it harder to get the power down too. Did yours have the optional limited diff?

[siwo]

Even with brand new PSS I remember when I stomped it in sport mode while under low gears (1 & 2) up to about 5500rpm the traction control kicks in like mad and you can feel the back end swishing as it aggressively attempts to correct itself. I have to admit I was scared and backed off right away on the first time. Few times after realized that I need to be kind to the throttle to limit the slippage.

[madmax240]

Fun isn't it?

[emtrey]

I have a 911, too. Nothing "bites" like a Porsche with all that engine weight in rear. Hit it hard coming around a corner and it just rockets ahead.
That may be altering your perception.

The power delivery of the 2 cars is radically different. The BMW has more immediate torque where the Porsche just builds seamless power all the way through. As a friend of mine once said after test driving my 911S, this car is really fast BUT its a different kind of fast than I have ever experienced.

I just got my M235IX and I love it. It just feels like its always "charging". Have not hit it hard from a dead stop but it jt takes off from any speed. Going 75 on the tollway the other day and wanted to get around a truck. Gave it a little throttle and made my move--looked down, going 100 mph. WOW....

You can get into a lot of trouble with these pocket rockets

[ianp622]

Yeah, definitely true of mine, even with PSS in warm weather. I got the LSD so curious to see if that will affect it, but honestly I kind of like it sometimes.

[jdgamble]

Originally Posted by nachob

The torque difference from E90 and NA motors is very different. Full Torque hits at around 1800 RPM, coupled less rubber in the back, yes the new cars take throttle discipline. Tires are critical on these cars because there is not a lot of rubber.

Do you have the Supersports or Continentals? Contis are noticeably less traction. Regardless, you have to learn to manage more torque with less traction.

Finally, there is no limited slip by default on these cars unless you added aftermarket. This makes it harder to get the power down too. Did yours have the optional limited diff?

Summer tires and no LSD. Summer tires were a must. I passed on a car with better options / color combo cuz it had the RFTs. And I know from experience that PSS have great traction. The diff seems interesting but pricey.

Thanks for the responses. It is fun, it's just very different from what I'm used to. Yeah the 911 was all top end and very linear. I love the immediate push in the 240, I just have to adapt to the first couple gears. I was starting to think there was something wrong with the car, but I feel better now.

Gotta love car foruns!

[jdgamble]

Originally Posted by ianp622

Yeah, definitely true of mine, even with PSS in warm weather. I got the LSD so curious to see if that will affect it, but honestly I kind of like it sometimes.

Hey keep me filled in on how the LSD affects performance please. Maybe that can be my Xmas 18 gift! Too soon right now... wife would veto.

[USA-RET]

Mine acts the same way. First time was pretty scary. Reminded me of my C7 when I first did hard acceleration. Scary. Between the noise of the motor and the car's "twitchiness", I let off pretty quickly.

Off topic:

Question on Porsche regarding power delivery.

BMW and MINI seem to deliver power low in the RPM range, so you feel a lot of "grunt" early and at low RPMs.

Does the Porsche power delivery mimic BMW/Mini's or do you need to build up RPM's before you get that same "grunt"?

Test drove a Audi TTS and noticed that "bliping" the throttle at lower speeds didn't transfer any feeling of acceleration or connection to the cabin. I could hear the engine rev w/ the throttle input, but that was about it. If iImanually went to a lower great and got higher engine RPM's, then the car would "buck" and lunge forward as I blipped the throttle.

Wondering how a Porsche fits in?

[nachob]

Originally Posted by jdgamble

Hey keep me filled in on how the LSD affects performance please. Maybe that can be my Xmas 18 gift! Too soon right now... wife would veto.

LSD was recently 40% off. Crazy deal. I think it would help get power down but I would be curious. The 1M has a 100% full lock diff whereas the regular ones are 20-30%. Even with full lock diff and bigger rear tires, it's hard to get power down and with a full lock diff, you can spin both wheels simultaneously and have to change diapers. Torque is nice but I think it comes on too early. I jump into my normally aspirated 330i zhp which has a lot less torque but instantanous throttle response and honestly it's almost a wash for me. I am lucky that I can have both but if I could've ordered 1M with a NA V8, I might have done that even if slower.

I had the same issue when I first switched to the the turbo motors. I see you have a crazy honda. I think if you approach the throttle like a powerful front wheel drive car where you have to have a lot of throttle discipline you will enjoy it a little more. Here is a good video of a full-lock diff in action. Check it out around 39-44 seconds.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=lEvpnKRLDO4

Congrats and best wishes.

[WolfGTI]

I've found that tire pressure plays a decent role in how 'squirrely' the rear feels under heavy throttle. I find either the PSS or the Contisport ExtremeContact Sports behave the same if they're down a couple PSI and cold. I would imaging the rear subframe bushings on our cars are more forgiving than the ones n a Porsche and definitely than the solid ones in the full M cars and that will play a part in the feeling,.

[jdgamble]

Originally Posted by USA-RET

Mine acts the same way. First time was pretty scary. Reminded me of my C7 when I first did hard acceleration. Scary. Between the noise of the motor and the car's "twitchiness", I let off pretty quickly.

Off topic:

Question on Porsche regarding power delivery.

BMW and MINI seem to deliver power low in the RPM range, so you feel a lot of "grunt" early and at low RPMs.

Does the Porsche power delivery mimic BMW/Mini's or do you need to build up RPM's before you get that same "grunt"?

Test drove a Audi TTS and noticed that "bliping" the throttle at lower speeds didn't transfer any feeling of acceleration or connection to the cabin. I could hear the engine rev w/ the throttle input, but that was about it. If iImanually went to a lower great and got higher engine RPM's, then the car would "buck" and lunge forward as I blipped the throttle.

Wondering how a Porsche fits in?

The NA Porsche motors (anything before 2017) are very much high RPM, so power delivery is very linear. The top end is amazing. Sounds like a race car. Porsche knows what they're doing! That said, at lower RPM, it's not nearly as responsive as our turbo 6s.

Originally Posted by nachob

LSD was recently 40% off. Crazy deal. I think it would help get power down but I would be curious. The 1M has a 100% full lock diff whereas the regular ones are 20-30%. Even with full lock diff and bigger rear tires, it's hard to get power down and with a full lock diff, you can spin both wheels simultaneously and have to change diapers. Torque is nice but I think it comes on too early. I jump into my normally aspirated 330i zhp which has a lot less torque but instantanous throttle response and honestly it's almost a wash for me. I am lucky that I can have both but if I could've ordered 1M with a NA V8, I might have done that even if slower.

I had the same issue when I first switched to the the turbo motors. I see you have a crazy honda. I think if you approach the throttle like a powerful front wheel drive car where you have to have a lot of throttle discipline you will enjoy it a little more. Here is a good video of a full-lock diff in action. Check it out around 39-44 seconds.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=lEvpnKRLDO4

Congrats and best wishes.

FYI - My avatar pic is a joke from year ago. No pink Hondas here. I need to grow up and get a real pic of my car in there.

[jdgamble]

Originally Posted by WolfGTI

I've found that tire pressure plays a decent role in how 'squirrely' the rear feels under heavy throttle. I find either the PSS or the Contisport ExtremeContact Sports behave the same if they're down a couple PSI and cold. I would imaging the rear subframe bushings on our cars are more forgiving than the ones n a Porsche and definitely than the solid ones in the full M cars and that will play a part in the feeling,.

So where do you keep your tire pressure? Temp just dropped like crazy here and this morning mine were at 34 cold. Should I bump that up? My issue is always that we have pretty dramatic temp swings during the day in the Bay Area. So if they are 39 cold in the AM, at noon they could be 45 warm after driving a bit. That seems too high. Most cars handle better with lower pressure (per car magazine road tests).

[amw896]

Ahhhhh the magic of torque and skinny tires.

[XutvJet]

I use to think it was cool, now I find it mostly annoying. I'm still on the stock tune and no power mods and my M235 6MT will obliterate the MPSS tires (still have 50% life) in 1st and can spin then easily in 2nd from a 30-45mph punch. Going down entrance ramps, I'll punch it in 2nd and can feel the tires hunting for traction while also accelerating forward and this is on concrete which is usually traction rich. On smooth asphalt, the traction can be really sketchy and can sometimes get it to spin from a roll in 3rd from a 2500-3000rpm punch.

I blame the big torque surge at turbo spool onset and somewhat narrow rear tires. Oddly, my 225/40R18 Michelin Aplin PA4 winter performance tires have FAR better straight line traction than my MPSS tires. I can punch it in 1st with minimal spin and have little traction issues in 2nd. It's awesome but handling isn't remotely as good.

I'll be getting the MP LSD in the spring and while I think it will do very little to improve straightline traction, it should help make dealing with the spin a bit more predictable.

[AlpsRider]

I experienced the same unstable feeling with my M235i in lower gears or under heavy acceleration in corners. The problem is that the M235/M240 has too much torque for the original size tires. The car resorts to traction control to stabilize the car. The problem is that it isn't the most seamless system. The car hunts and jerks as the traction control tries to reduce power and use braking to control all that torque. If you turn off the traction control (long press DSC button) it activates the "E" differential mode but the car just doesn't have enough traction, it will slide like crazy. This drifting is fun but the car needs more traction.

I upgraded to 235/35/19 front and 265/30/19 rear tires in the new MPS 4S, which has transformed the car. BMW most likely used those smaller tires on the car in order to 1) save money, 2) improve fuel economy for advertising and import duties, and 3) to not compete with the M2 on the track. Dinan springs adds another step towards more control on this car.

My preferred tire pressure for street driving with these tires 35F 35R.

[WolfGTI]

I keep my tires @ 34F and 39R when cold - I generally tweak them based on average temps for the season. I check and adjust pressures every week - yes OCD ... lol.

Originally Posted by jdgamble

So where do you keep your tire pressure? Temp just dropped like crazy here and this morning mine were at 34 cold. Should I bump that up? My issue is always that we have pretty dramatic temp swings during the day in the Bay Area. So if they are 39 cold in the AM, at noon they could be 45 warm after driving a bit. That seems too high. Most cars handle better with lower pressure (per car magazine road tests).

[jdgamble]

Originally Posted by AlpsRider

I experienced the same unstable feeling with my M235i in lower gears or under heavy acceleration in corners. The problem is that the M235/M240 has too much torque for the original size tires. The car resorts to traction control to stabilize the car. The problem is that it isn't the most seamless system. The car hunts and jerks as the traction control tries to reduce power and use braking to control all that torque. If you turn off the traction control (long press DSC button) it activates the "E" differential mode but the car just doesn't have enough traction, it will slide like crazy. This drifting is fun but the car needs more traction.

I upgraded to 235/35/19 front and 265/30/19 rear tires in the new MPS 4S, which has transformed the car. BMW most likely used those smaller tires on the car in order to 1) save money, 2) improve fuel economy for advertising and import duties, and 3) to not compete with the M2 on the track. Dinan springs adds another step towards more control on this car.

My preferred tire pressure for street driving with these tires 35F 35R.

Interesting. Any idea what the widest tire that would fit on the stock wheels? 18x8 right? I'm a stock wheel guy... too old to change.

Thanks.

[samej]

Originally Posted by AlpsRider

I experienced the same unstable feeling with my M235i in lower gears or under heavy acceleration in corners. The problem is that the M235/M240 has too much torque for the original size tires. The car resorts to traction control to stabilize the car. The problem is that it isn't the most seamless system. The car hunts and jerks as the traction control tries to reduce power and use braking to control all that torque. If you turn off the traction control (long press DSC button) it activates the "E" differential mode but the car just doesn't have enough traction, it will slide like crazy. This drifting is fun but the car needs more traction.

I upgraded to 235/35/19 front and 265/30/19 rear tires in the new MPS 4S, which has transformed the car. BMW most likely used those smaller tires on the car in order to 1) save money, 2) improve fuel economy for advertising and import duties, and 3) to not compete with the M2 on the track. Dinan springs adds another step towards more control on this car.

My preferred tire pressure for street driving with these tires 35F 35R.

Nice - no rubbing?

[Dylan86]

LSD and good tires will totally change your perspective of the "unsettled" character that the m235/40s have. Just ask anyone who's done before/after reviews, it's very telling that this car "should" have come with an LSD from the factory, but to keep the MSRP in check, they obviously had to cut come corners..

[Maynard]

Originally Posted by emtrey

I have a 911, too. Nothing "bites" like a Porsche with all that engine weight in rear. Hit it hard coming around a corner and it just rockets ahead. [/B]

How the 911 has changed! Used to be that 911's would kill you for that type of behavior (or at least put you into a ditch backwards).

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by jdgamble

Interesting. Any idea what the widest tire that would fit on the stock wheels? 18x8 right? I'm a stock wheel guy... too old to change.

Thanks.

To maintain the stock overall diameter, the widest tire you can fit on the 18X8 rim is the stock size 245/35R18.

I've owned my M235 for 19 months. I've experimented with tire pressures and have noticed absolutely no improvement in straight line traction by varying pressure. The only thing that makes a difference is getting the MPSS tires into the 100+ degree range. In ambient temps below 60 degrees, they're worthless, as to be expected for a summer tire.