[BLK235iNJ]

Check this out.

[Cal]

Not too shabby...They also just tested the new 2015 Mustang GT with Performance Package and a 2014 Camaro SS with the 1LE package. Both were fairly impressive with the 2015 Mustang GT mustering a 1.24.32, and the Camaro SS 1LE with an impressive 1.22.81.

[///MCFC]

Originally Posted by BLK235iNJ

Not bad for a 6cyl (MT Hotlap)

but beaten by a couple of 4cyls!

[Cyberdemon]

Are we talking about the M235i or the Mustang?

I think what we should be more concerned about is the fact that a 4 cylinder Turbo Mustang is only a second and a half away. The new GT with the track options is probably going to be stupid fast.

#murica

[///MCFC]

Originally Posted by Cyberdemon

Are we talking about the M235i or the Mustang?

I think what we should be more concerned about is the fact that a 4 cylinder Turbo Mustang is only a second and a half away. The new GT with the track options is probably going to be stupid fast.

#murica

did you read the thread? but anyway, track times = d*ck waving.

[jbenington86]

Originally Posted by Cyberdemon

Are we talking about the M235i or the Mustang?

I think what we should be more concerned about is the fact that a 4 cylinder Turbo Mustang is only a second and a half away. The new GT with the track options is probably going to be stupid fast.

#murica

If the only thing we are worried about is track times we wouldn't be buying BMWs nor would we be buying Fords.

[Cyberdemon]

Originally Posted by jbenington86

If the only thing we are worried about is track times we wouldn't be buying BMWs nor would we be buying Fords.

"Worrying" about anything was not a serious comment.

But more as a props to Ford for engineering a serious machine.

The rest of the world is able to squeeze 300+hp out of a 4 cylinder it's time BMW starts keeping up with the game - the planned ~270hp refresh for the B48 even if under-rated is low compared to what most engines are stringing out.

[Cavpilot2k]

Originally Posted by Cyberdemon

"Worrying" about anything was not a serious comment.

But more as a props to Ford for engineering a serious machine.

The rest of the world is able to squeeze 300+hp out of a 4 cylinder it's time BMW starts keeping up with the game - the planned ~270hp refresh for the B48 even if under-rated is low compared to what most engines are stringing out.

I'm not sure I agree. HP per cylinder or CC is not all about the numbers, and more is not necessarily better.
Case in point: The N55 in my 2012 135 makes 300HP with a turbo 6, as we all know. At the same time, the 2012 V6 mustang made 300HP with a NA V6. Does that mean Ford makes a better engine than BMW? Not by a long shot. How many awards has the N55 won compared to the (whatever nomenclature) V6 in the comparable year mustang? It's not all about how much power it makes, but how it delivers that power.
I drove both (I had the mustang as a rental for a long weekend). The N55's power delivery is vastly smoother, more linear, more responsive, and in every measurable way better than that of the Mustang's V6.

So who cares if another manufacturer makes more HP out of a given displacement or number of cylinders? There is no one thing that BMW does that someone else doesn't do better in some way. What is great about BMW is how it combines all the elements of a car to make a great sum of its parts.
Will a 2015 Mustang GT outrun an M235? Yes.
Is it a better car? No.
Is a 300HP NA V6 better than a 300HP FI I6? No.

[jbenington86]

IMO the 2013 track package mustang has 100hp more only weighs ~100lbs more and only sneaks past the M235i by .6 seconds...you think 100hp lugging only a large child worth of extra weight would do better....also you look at Mustang ecoboost numbers and they aren't much better than the 228i with 70 less hp......It's not always about power its about the delivery.

[Cyberdemon]

Originally Posted by Cavpilot2k

I'm not sure I agree. HP per cylinder or CC is not all about the numbers, and more is not necessarily better.
Case in point: The N55 in my 2012 135 makes 300HP with a turbo 6, as we all know. At the same time, the 2012 V6 mustang made 300HP with a NA V6. Does that mean Ford makes a better engine than BMW? Not by a long shot. How many awards has the N55 won compared to the (whatever nomenclature) V6 in the comparable year mustang? It's not all about how much power it makes, but how it delivers that power.
I drove both (I had the mustang as a rental for a long weekend). The N55's power delivery is vastly smoother, more linear, more responsive, and in every measurable way better than that of the Mustang's V6.

So who cares if another manufacturer makes more HP out of a given displacement or number of cylinders? There is no one thing that BMW does that someone else doesn't do better in some way. What is great about BMW is how it combines all the elements of a car to make a great sum of its parts.
Will a 2015 Mustang GT outrun an M235? Yes.
Is it a better car? No.
Is a 300HP NA V6 better than a 300HP FI I6? No.

Cav - You're comparing to the old car which is not what I was talking about.

The old Mustang/rental king V6 is garbage. Absolutely. And I'm not comparing Apples->Oranges (I6 turbo to a V6).

The 2015 Ecoboost Mustang (which is what was tested in the screenshot at the top of the thread) uses a 2.3L 4 Cylinder Turbo engine - not one unlike the 2.0L Turbo N20 engine in the 228.

That puts the Mustang factory rating @ 135hp/Liter vs 120hp/Liter for the N20 (The B48 should match it if it comes rated at 270 which would match the hp/liter) and if you watch the video (which is here for reference)

To your point about not winning awards - Ford has won Wards 10 best engines awards for their Ecoboost engines since they started building them in 2010. (As has BMW for the N20, N55, & N57)

While I'm sure the B48 will dyno quite healthily just as the N20 did, my point still stands that Ford raised the turbocharged bar with this engine.

Also, the 2013 Mustang they are comparing is still the old fashioned live rear axle - so yes that car will be considerably slower than the 2015 will.

Either way, don't get your panties in a bunch - I'm a BMW driver on a BMW forum who engineers things for a living and likes cars. So yes, when another company comes out with an impressive piece of internal combustion engineering I appreciate it. Setting the benchmark higher is always a good thing.

Now bring on the tunes.

[Cavpilot2k]

Originally Posted by Cyberdemon

Cav - You're comparing to the old car which is not what I was talking about.

The old Mustang/rental king V6 is garbage. Absolutely. And I'm not comparing Apples->Oranges (I6 turbo to a V6).

The 2015 Ecoboost Mustang (which is what was tested in the screenshot at the top of the thread) uses a 2.3L 4 Cylinder Turbo engine - not one unlike the 2.0L Turbo N20 engine in the 228.

That puts the Mustang factory rating @ 135hp/Liter vs 120hp/Liter for the N20 (The B48 should match it if it comes rated at 270 which would match the hp/liter) and if you watch the video (which is here for reference)

To your point about not winning awards - Ford has won Wards 10 best engines awards for their Ecoboost engines since they started building them in 2010. (As has BMW for the N20, N55, & N57)

While I'm sure the B48 will dyno quite healthily just as the N20 did, my point still stands that Ford raised the turbocharged bar with this engine.

Also, the 2013 Mustang they are comparing is still the old fashioned live rear axle - so yes that car will be considerably slower than the 2015 will.

Either way, don't get your panties in a bunch - I'm a BMW driver on a BMW forum who engineers things for a living and likes cars. So yes, when another company comes out with an impressive piece of internal combustion engineering I appreciate it. Setting the benchmark higher is always a good thing.

Now bring on the tunes.

I'm not knocking Ford, or their engines, because I was actually cross-shopping a 2015 GT w/track pack against the M235, which I wouldn't be if I didn't believe they made good stuff (in the end, I decided against both, and will stay in a 135 until the M2 comes out because I don't think the M235 is enough of an upgrade to warrant the change).

I think you, however, missed MY point, which was that even in an apples-to-apples comparison, dyno numbers and HP/L are simply numbers on paper and little relevance to real-world application and usability. And even then, a lot of it boils down to flavor preference (shape of the power band, sound, redline, vibration).

Did Ford raise the bar on what a 4-banger turbo can do? Maybe a little. It's really just the latest step in the eternal leapfrogging of technology that has been going on for decades. Let's not forget that Honda made a 250HP NA 4-banger 10 years ago in the S-2000.

[uberspeed]

Originally Posted by Cavpilot2k

I'm not knocking Ford, or their engines, because I was actually cross-shopping a 2015 GT w/track pack against the M235, which I wouldn't be if I didn't believe they made good stuff (in the end, I decided against both, and will stay in a 135 until the M2 comes out because I don't think the M235 is enough of an upgrade to warrant the change).

I think you, however, missed MY point, which was that even in an apples-to-apples comparison, dyno numbers and HP/L are simply numbers on paper and little relevance to real-world application and usability. And even then, a lot of it boils down to flavor preference (shape of the power band, sound, redline, vibration).

Did Ford raise the bar on what a 4-banger turbo can do? Maybe a little. It's really just the latest step in the eternal leapfrogging of technology that has been going on for decades. Let's not forget that Honda made a 250HP NA 4-banger 10 years ago in the S-2000.

S2000 is a wonderful light little boy racer package but you have to drive it like you hate it to extract the power, I like what ze germans have been cooking up (same recipe for decades really) with usable torque down low where I spend most of my time

[Lucky13]

Originally Posted by Cyberdemon

Are we talking about the M235i or the Mustang?

I think what we should be more concerned about is the fact that a 4 cylinder Turbo Mustang is only a second and a half away. The new GT with the track options is probably going to be stupid fast.

#murica

No the Mustang GT owner with a 435 HP V8 should be worried that a 6 cyl with 320 hp is only .6 seconds slower and in the hands of a different driver probably equal.

[Cyberdemon]

Originally Posted by Lucky13

No the Mustang GT owner with a 435 HP V8 should be worried that a 6 cyl with 320 hp is only .6 seconds slower and in the hands of a different driver probably equal.

The 2015 was 2 seconds quicker than the M235i which is actually disappointing since it was 2 seconds slower than the Camaro at the hands of the same driver.

Seems like they kept the suspension too soft. Adjustable dampers FTW.

[BLK235iNJ]

I'm thinking with my Dinan upgrades I should be able to play with a stock GT. I have a 13 lightly modded and tuned. I'm going to talk my wife into following me to the track so I can compare the 2. I know its not a 15 but I'm pretty sure my 13 is as quick or quicker than a stock 15..