[Devon K]

M235i is a wicked deal for us Canucks

I made just that argument yesterday over at the VWVortex Mk VII R forum - folks there were howling about the premium the M235i carried versus the R. And it's true in the States the difference is about $10K - but here in the home of the Arctic Vortex the difference is only about $5K.

Of course our 2 is not equipped quite the same way - we don't get a sunroof as standard equipment, and we have to pay an extra $1500 if we want the ZF tranny. OTOH as you point out we get the winter package standard, and we also get leather standard. But we cannot get either navi or a backup camera without a bunch of other options in a big expensive package.

[Devon K]

http://www.windingroad.com/articles/...014-bmw-m235i/

They got a few facts wrong - I posted a corrective comment there.

[Seagull]

I think my example is pretty darn close - plus the exchange rate.... delta is less than $5 easily

[Devon K]

^I was referring to the delta to the Golf R for the Canadian M235i - with the US we are at parity or even a bit better off on the M235i given the .89 Canadian dollar.

[Devon K]

http://www.pistonheads.com/doc.asp?c=100&i=29272

Provides a detailed analysis of handling (and it's not all pretty, reviewer cites a notable lack of steering feel).

[dmboone25]

Originally Posted by Devon K

http://www.pistonheads.com/doc.asp?c=100&i=29272

Provides a detailed analysis of handling (and it's not all pretty, reviewer cites a notable lack of steering feel).

This has been the harshest review on the steering yet--looking forward to comparing the outgoing E82 to the new M235, specifically in terms of steering feel.

[bradleyland]

Originally Posted by Devon K

I made just that argument yesterday over at the VWVortex Mk VII R forum - folks there were howling about the premium the M235i carried versus the R. And it's true in the States the difference is about $10K - but here in the home of the Arctic Vortex the difference is only about $5K.

Of course our 2 is not equipped quite the same way - we don't get a sunroof as standard equipment, and we have to pay an extra $1500 if we want the ZF tranny. OTOH as you point out we get the winter package standard, and we also get leather standard. But we cannot get either navi or a backup camera without a bunch of other options in a big expensive package.

I wouldn't expect them to accept this argument over at VWVortex, but for $5k, you're getting a lot more car (from a sports car perspective). The Golf R is FWD with the ability to engage the rear wheels when the fronts slip. This guarantees it will understeer on-throttle. It also has (in every review I've seen) traction control that cannot be disabled, so in addition to an understeer-only chassis, you've got a nanny cutting the throttle every time. I don't know how anyone looking for a sports car buys a Golf R. I can understand the value argument of the GTI, but the Golf R is so much more money, and still hamstrung by it's driveline and traction control.

[bradleyland]

Originally Posted by Devon K

http://www.pistonheads.com/doc.asp?c=100&i=29272

Provides a detailed analysis of handling (and it's not all pretty, reviewer cites a notable lack of steering feel).

I think this statement accurately describes BMW's intention for the M235i.

Ultimately, the M235i's hatchback origins are evident once you ask the most serious questions of its chassis. Absolute on circuit brilliance would perhaps be the job of an M2, or at least the rather tasty looking M235i Racing...

The M235i is a car for spirited driving on the roads where you shouldn't be asking the most serious questions of its chassis. We'll have to wait for the M2 to see BMW's 2-series track-oriented car.

[riccappa]

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-0...tml?cmpid=yhoo

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by dmboone25

This has been the harshest review on the steering yet--looking forward to comparing the outgoing E82 to the new M235, specifically in terms of steering feel.

Looking forward to your feedback. Just curious what you think of the E82 steering feel? I was personally never impressed with it, it was overly heavy, didn't provide much actual feedback with RFT's or even non RFT's and didn't particularly like to recenter. Some of this is negatively influenced by the fact that I was daily driving my E36/8 M Coupe for most of the time my wife had her 135i, and the M Coupe still has the best steering feel of any recent BMW I've driven, with absolutely great road feel, sense of slip and quick turn in.

[buumer]

Originally Posted by bradleyland

I wouldn't expect them to accept this argument over at VWVortex, but for $5k, you're getting a lot more car (from a sports car perspective). The Golf R is FWD with the ability to engage the rear wheels when the fronts slip. This guarantees it will understeer on-throttle. It also has (in every review I've seen) traction control that cannot be disabled, so in addition to an understeer-only chassis, you've got a nanny cutting the throttle every time. I don't know how anyone looking for a sports car buys a Golf R. I can understand the value argument of the GTI, but the Golf R is so much more money, and still hamstrung by it's driveline and traction control.

The golf r is capable of disabling all of its traction control. And 35k is a bargain price for the amount of stuff you get in a car. And at 3500 pounds, I wouldn't be so quick as to call the m235i more of a sports car.

[dirtdog]

Originally Posted by riccappa

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-0...tml?cmpid=yhoo

two turbos and top speed of 130mph?

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by buumer

The golf r is capable of disabling all of its traction control. And 35k is a bargain price for the amount of stuff you get in a car. And at 3500 pounds, I wouldn't be so quick as to call the m235i more of a sports car.

Absolutely agree with this. The Mk7 has the latest Haldex, which apparently keeps a constant flow of power to the rear wheels and can transfer nearly 100% to the rears when slip is detected. This is very different than the older generation of Haldex that the A45/CLA45(and the Mk4 Golf R) is using that runs in fwd only until slip is detected and then has a max transfer ability of 60% to the rear.

Traction control is fully defeatable in the Mk7, something that was only true in the EU Mk6 or any with aftermarket tuning.

If the US M235i really is 3500 pounds then it's power to weight is just under 11 lbs / hp. The Mk7 R is supposed to be between 3,100 and 3,200 pounds, with 290 hp, so that puts it right in the same ball park at around 11 lbs / hp.

If history is anything to go by, the E82 and F2x have pretty heavy understeer, so while the R is certainly going to understeer from the factory, it's unlikely to be much different than a stock M235i.

[outcast]

Originally Posted by buumer

And at 3500 pounds, I wouldn't be so quick as to call the m235i more of a sports car.

The M235i specs say 1545kg for the auto version (1530kg for the manual), that should correspond to 3406 pounds (or 3373 for the manual). Where do you get your 3500 from?

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by outcast

The M235i specs say 1545kg for the auto version (1530kg for the manual), that should correspond to 3406 pounds (or 3373 for the manual). Where do you get your 3500 from?

Our US site, it's likely due to standard content that the ROW can avoid.

[outcast]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

Our US site, it's likely due to standard content that the ROW can avoid.

Isn't this the US site? http://www.bmw.com/com/en/newvehicle...ata/index.html It lists 1545kg as well.

edit: actually, that's the international site, BMW US http://www.bmwusa.com/Standard/Conte...fications.aspx indeed lists even 3535 pounds for the auto - what the hell do you guys get as standard? Extra bricks in the trunk? Or is "US curb weight" not comparable to EU weight? (i.e. does your standard driver weigh more than 75 kg )

[JustChris]

Originally Posted by dirtdog

two turbos and top speed of 130mph?

I thought that looked way off too and I think it is. UK site lists M235i at 250kmh which is the usual 155mph and its limited to that so capable of more. Either lazy article or some sort of strange US limit that's different to ROW.

[grant]

Originally Posted by dmboone25

This has been the harshest review on the steering yet--looking forward to comparing the outgoing E82 to the new M235, specifically in terms of steering feel.

It's really sad to see how BMW has rapidly declined in the area of steering feel over the last 15 years. I thought the E46 M3 was a huge disappointment in this area compared to the E36 M3. Now the E46 M3 is held up as a paragon of good steering feel, since all the models since are much worse

[dmboone25]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

Looking forward to your feedback. Just curious what you think of the E82 steering feel? I was personally never impressed with it, it was overly heavy, didn't provide much actual feedback with RFT's or even non RFT's and didn't particularly like to recenter. Some of this is negatively influenced by the fact that I was daily driving my E36/8 M Coupe for most of the time my wife had her 135i, and the M Coupe still has the best steering feel of any recent BMW I've driven, with absolutely great road feel, sense of slip and quick turn in.

I will be excited to make the comparisons. The E82 has always felt a bit heavy to me, but I like that aspect of a BMW. I will say that neither of my E82s has been a "point and go" type machine, where you simply put the nose of the car exactly where you want it.

I can't remember the internal designation for my dad's 2007 Z4MC, but that's the best car I have ever driven, in terms of it doing exactly what you expect it to. The E82 was never along those lines, and I don't expect the M235 to be either. I just don't want to feel like I have to turn the steering wheel a much greater distance to get the car to move, OR that the steering is so light that I feel like I am in a Chevy Sonic (had one for a rental last week, and I was truly scared to drive that thing on the highway).

We shall see.

[buumer]

http://www.europeancarweb.com/firstl...5i_first_drive

Has the best rear shot yet, on proper wide summer tires.

http://www.europeancarweb.com/firstl...e/photo_5.html

[JustChris]

Originally Posted by buumer

http://www.europeancarweb.com/firstl...5i_first_drive

Has the best rear shot yet, on proper wide summer tires.

http://www.europeancarweb.com/firstl...e/photo_5.html

Good spot thanks, rear tyres still not massive the shot looks good as the shadow of the front tyres adds to the width of the rear, makes it look really wide. Agree some great photos in there though.

[captpn]

The article mentions the LSD thats been of big interest.

'BMW outfits all their new M235i's with their new Torque Sensitive LSD, making sure both tires are spinning at all times (and making me look that much more badass albeit accidentally)'

What is he talking about? is this the standard rear? I thought the LSD was a Port installed expensive option?