[crbalch]

Originally Posted by Taskmaster

Sounds like contrived BS to me. OP doesn't even have kids yet, much less 3.

Look, there are plenty of reasons to buy a Model 3 (I guess...) But the contrived BS you're making up aren't valid ones.

Save gas? Over what? Over what period of time?
Carry a family? What family? Does having 2 extra doors really change that much?
It doesn't offer more quality than cars in it's price range
It doesn't save money over MOST ICE cars
It's poorly designed
Outside of accelerating from a standstill, it's acceleration isn't that impressive.
It's ugly inside and out (subjective, I know)
It doesn't have the range of ICE cars
It requires the driver to adapt to the vehicle instead of the other way around (But muh 30 minute wait at supercharger stations)

It really doesn't offer much outside of a fully electric drive train- wait a year and Porsche will be offering a car that exceeds Model S specs for a lower cost. Oh, and it's a Porsche (a drivers car brand) and not some overhyped, poorly thought out Tech brand that sells cars to clueless consumers.

I am still struggling to comprehend how you can't even try to see this from another point of view.

Save gas over literally any period of time, when compared to an M3 which is what I would've gotten next.

Why are you so vehemently opposing the fact that having a DOOR to put a child in and out of a car is better than moving the seat up and down every time?

"Its acceleration isn't that impressive" - ok. I've driven my car and the P3D back to back, kills my car in every situation acceleration-wise, but I'll take it from the guy that has never driven one.

In MY situation (having an X1 for long road trips), the charging aspect doesn't matter at all. I'll charge at home for free essentially, and be good for anything I do now.

"OP doesn't even have kids yet". Not that hard to comprehend here bud. I will within a year. I want to take advantage of the tax credit, my car's current value, and other benefits in the meantime. Maybe you don't understand but I actually want 4 doors, for reasons other than kids as well.

The fact that you keep telling me what is best for my situation is very bizarre. I know what is best for me, and you know what is best for you. Do you see me telling you all the reasons why the M235 is worse for you when I don't even know you? I just looked up your post history and see you have a pattern of this type of behavior so I get it.

[M235ForNow]

Originally Posted by crbalch

I am still struggling to comprehend how you can't even try to see this from another point of view.

Save gas over literally any period of time, when compared to an M3 which is what I would've gotten next.

Why are you so vehemently opposing the fact that having a DOOR to put a child in and out of a car is better than moving the seat up and down every time?

"Its acceleration isn't that impressive" - ok. I've driven my car and the P3D back to back, kills my car in every situation acceleration-wise, but I'll take it from the guy that has never driven one.

In MY situation (having an X1 for long road trips), the charging aspect doesn't matter at all. I'll charge at home for free essentially, and be good for anything I do now.

"OP doesn't even have kids yet". Not that hard to comprehend here bud. I will within a year. I want to take advantage of the tax credit, my car's current value, and other benefits in the meantime. Maybe you don't understand but I actually want 4 doors, for reasons other than kids as well.

The fact that you keep telling me what is best for my situation is very bizarre. I know what is best for me, and you know what is best for you. Do you see me telling you all the reasons why the M235 is worse for you when I don't even know you? I just looked up your post history and see you have a pattern of this type of behavior so I get it.

Just to throw my own zwei pfennigs in. I can completely see the poster's desire for a 3. It's not his only car - road trips are taken care of with his other BMW. So it becomes, what's fun and neato to drive w/o that constraint. There are tons of options there - heck, I was considering an ND MX5. The acceleration in the big battery 3 is huge. Certainly more oomph than in my 235. Fun. The fueling costs are certainly lower, and even helps justify solar roof installation (for a roof owner). And the desire for 4 doors - well, I can totally relate to that one. If a 4 door M235 gran coupe existed I'd be driving it. Rear doors are massively less of a pain for loading kids or dogs or groceries or anything else. I'd gladly tradeoff the looks of the coupe for the ease of usage 4 doors would bring.

Looks are totally subjective. I, personally, don't think the 3 looks particularly good. Awkward greenhouse, odd looking front, etc. And I love the looks of my 235. But - that's me, and my subjective opinions count for zero against the person laying down the cash.

What I'd be irritated at is the way Tesla is tweaking prices on their various tiers. They just made the $5K power bump free. Which is cool for a new buyer but has mightily pissed off those who just paid $5K for it. However, if the original poster is content with the car, as priced, then this isn't really an issue either.

So - thumbs up on your new ride and I hope you continue to love it!

[crbalch]

Originally Posted by M235ForNow

Just to throw my own zwei pfennigs in. I can completely see the poster's desire for a 3. It's not his only car - road trips are taken care of with his other BMW. So it becomes, what's fun and neato to drive w/o that constraint. There are tons of options there - heck, I was considering an ND MX5. The acceleration in the big battery 3 is huge. Certainly more oomph than in my 235. Fun. The fueling costs are certainly lower, and even helps justify solar roof installation (for a roof owner). And the desire for 4 doors - well, I can totally relate to that one. If a 4 door M235 gran coupe existed I'd be driving it. Rear doors are massively less of a pain for loading kids or dogs or groceries or anything else. I'd gladly tradeoff the looks of the coupe for the ease of usage 4 doors would bring.

Looks are totally subjective. I, personally, don't think the 3 looks particularly good. Awkward greenhouse, odd looking front, etc. And I love the looks of my 235. But - that's me, and my subjective opinions count for zero against the person laying down the cash.

What I'd be irritated at is the way Tesla is tweaking prices on their various tiers. They just made the $5K power bump free. Which is cool for a new buyer but has mightily pissed off those who just paid $5K for it. However, if the original poster is content with the car, as priced, then this isn't really an issue either.

So - thumbs up on your new ride and I hope you continue to love it!

I certainly appreciate the perspective!

I agree about the GC version of either the 240 or M2. If they released the M2 with that option, I would consider going that route and move to an EV for the next car. I could justify the fuel savings with the lower cost of the car, and get that 2nd row of doors which I want. I'd miss out on some of the other features I want like Autopilot, but an M2 GC would probably persuade me.

The 3 is such a polarizing car in terms of looks. People either love it or hate it, it seems. I don't know why, but I love the look. Some colors look better than others, but the white on white with 20" wheels and red calipers just does it for me. Especially when comparing it to others in that segment. Throw a bit of tint on and it'll look perfect. To be fair, when I had my 2012 135i I loved the look, which all things considered was a pretty ugly car.

The price tweaking is a little strange I admit. I get why they are doing it, but it is very different than what we are used to. The same type of things happen with other manufacturers (rebates, other incentives, sales negotiation, etc.), where I can buy a car that costs me more than someone else. The nice thing about Tesla is that it seems to be taking ownership of these things. They've already said that anyone that paid the $5k will be getting a refund. I personally did not go for the upgrade option, so instead I switched my order to include it so it is effectively free. Was originally going to take delivery 11/10 but that'll likely be pushed back now. Fine with me for the free upgrades though!

[M235ForNow]

Originally Posted by crbalch

I certainly appreciate the perspective!

The price tweaking is a little strange I admit. I get why they are doing it, but it is very different than what we are used to. The same type of things happen with other manufacturers (rebates, other incentives, sales negotiation, etc.), where I can buy a car that costs me more than someone else. The nice thing about Tesla is that it seems to be taking ownership of these things. They've already said that anyone that paid the $5k will be getting a refund. I personally did not go for the upgrade option, so instead I switched my order to include it so it is effectively free. Was originally going to take delivery 11/10 but that'll likely be pushed back now. Fine with me for the free upgrades though!

Unfortunately, they seem (so far) to be kind of not-truth-telling on that score. Or more precisely, not paying attention to anything EM promises. A buddy of mine can go on about this for a quite a while. He ordered the $9K upgrade from AWD, apparently based on info from dealer and online that it's buying him hardware. When he discovered that the hardware is identical (with regard to power) he asked to get the $ back and Tesla said no. So he asked them to take back the car, a la Musk's "you can return it" tweet. And again got a no. One can argue whether he should have been more aware of what he was getting (forum folks knew the score, even if the Tesla management apparently did not) but ultimately he's not a fully pleased camper. Then again, all those E39 owners who faced Vanos bills of $1000+ due to the failure of a $0.25 part weren't all that happy either!

[crbalch]

Originally Posted by M235ForNow

Unfortunately, they seem (so far) to be kind of not-truth-telling on that score. Or more precisely, not paying attention to anything EM promises. A buddy of mine can go on about this for a quite a while. He ordered the $9K upgrade from AWD, apparently based on info from dealer and online that it's buying him hardware. When he discovered that the hardware is identical (with regard to power) he asked to get the $ back and Tesla said no. So he asked them to take back the car, a la Musk's "you can return it" tweet. And again got a no. One can argue whether he should have been more aware of what he was getting (forum folks knew the score, even if the Tesla management apparently did not) but ultimately he's not a fully pleased camper. Then again, all those E39 owners who faced Vanos bills of $1000+ due to the failure of a $0.25 part weren't all that happy either!

I think its been confirmed that the Performance AWD models have binned motors and double burn in. What that means exactly, I am not entirely sure haha. But...the Performance model with the 5k performance upgrade is absolutely different hardware wise (lower suspension, bigger brakes, different rotors). So at least you know you're getting those upgraded motors (theoretically).

Fair point on the E39. So many car companies do less than transparent things (VW), Tesla is definitely more in the crosshairs though.

[Taskmaster]

Originally Posted by crbalch

I am still struggling to comprehend how you can't even try to see this from another point of view.

Save gas over literally any period of time, when compared to an M3 which is what I would've gotten next.

I'm still struggling to understand why you think people who care about cars would cross shop a looks to be a Fisher Price made vaccum cleaner made a by an egomaniac, which one of the last real driver's cars, made by a company that actually knows how to make cars.

Who pays $70000 to save gas? Who?
And that doesn't even point out that you don't have to wait X minutes and base your life around charging the car. Any combustion car is ready to go anywhere at any time.

Originally Posted by crbalch

Why are you so vehemently opposing the fact that having a DOOR to put a child in and out of a car is better than moving the seat up and down every time?

I'm not. I just think the reason you gave is contrived. And it is.

Originally Posted by crbalch

"Its acceleration isn't that impressive" - ok. I've driven my car and the P3D back to back, kills my car in every situation acceleration-wise, but I'll take it from the guy that has never driven one.

I've driven a Model S P100D - it was fast. And also heavy, cheap and kinda ugly. The Model 3 is slower, expensive, heavy and also cheap and ugly (the last one is subjective - I admit that)

What isn't subjective is the Dyson Vacuum 3 is a 112mph trap speed car, while an M3 will do 119mph over the same distance. The M3 is absolutely a quicker car in EVERY sense, save from an absolute standstill. Hell, even a modded 235i like yours SHOULD be able to walk one.

Originally Posted by crbalch

In MY situation (having an X1 for long road trips), the charging aspect doesn't matter at all. I'll charge at home for free essentially, and be good for anything I do now.

See my first point about spending 70K to save gas.

Originally Posted by crbalch

"OP doesn't even have kids yet". Not that hard to comprehend here bud. I will within a year. I want to take advantage of the tax credit, my car's current value, and other benefits in the meantime. Maybe you don't understand but I actually want 4 doors, for reasons other than kids as well.

That's why you have that X1 - right?

Originally Posted by crbalch

The fact that you keep telling me what is best for my situation is very bizarre. I know what is best for me, and you know what is best for you. Do you see me telling you all the reasons why the M235 is worse for you when I don't even know you? I just looked up your post history and see you have a pattern of this type of behavior so I get it.

I'm not telling you what to buy - I simply stated that your "reasons" aren't logical.

Simply put, you got your answer. No one here wants really cross shop the two. Enjoy.