[dan84]

Originally Posted by beenthere1

What is the MF and negotiated sale price? I would consider using the $3300 as a multiple security deposit rather than a cap reduction.

I asked the salesperson that, but I'm still waiting for the reply. Is it against car buying etiquette to ask for the lease worksheet they're working with? Like asking a magician how he does his tricks? lol If not, what's the right way to ask for it?

[hyperzulu]

If someone is not willing to be transparent, I'd work with someone else. My last two deals were completely transparent. My CA was even upfront about charging a $200 markup to acquisition for euro delivery orders, which I was fine with. This was not a last minute, oh by the way, thing.

[pdubb]

Originally Posted by dan84

I asked the salesperson that, but I'm still waiting for the reply. Is it against car buying etiquette to ask for the lease worksheet they're working with? Like asking a magician how he does his tricks? lol If not, what's the right way to ask for it?

Could you not use Ride with G's for your situation? http://www.ridewithg.com/the-lease-formula/

[rhinothatflies]

Hi everyone. I am new to this site. I placed my $2000 deposit for a 228i x-drive I built three weeks ago. I should take delivery in four weeks. The sales associate said that we could negotiate final terms when the car arrives. I'm hoping that that is actually the case, because as of right now my payments are 595 a month after putting down the maximum payment in MSDs. I would appreciate any input the community can provide. Thanks.

[hyperzulu]

Originally Posted by rhinothatflies

Hi everyone. I am new to this site. I placed my $2000 deposit for a 228i x-drive I built three weeks ago. I should take delivery in four weeks. The sales associate said that we could negotiate final terms when the car arrives. I'm hoping that that is actually the case, because as of right now my payments are 595 a month after putting down the maximum payment in MSDs. I would appreciate any input the community can provide. Thanks.

I don't like that. Always negotiate terms before the order is even put in. The fear here is that you have all the power in the world except will power. You can refuse the car if the terms are not satisfying to you, but are you willing to go somewhere else after waiting so long, just to get a better deal?

$595 a month sounds expensive for max MSDs. Compare it to mine, which is obviously apples to oranges, but just for grins:

2015 M235i - MSRP $50,250 / Selling Price $44,4100 (Euro Delivery)
Monthly payment is $575

Now, I rolled in $925 on the selling price to bring it up to that price, I also did 45k miles over 36 months, which reduces the residual value considerably, meaning my monthly goes up. And euro delivery leases have a higher interest rate than stateside deliveries, on top of me doing NO security deposits.

All that being said, if your deal is on a less expensive car, with only 30k miles over 3 years and you have a much lower interest rate on account of being a US delivery AND maxing out the security deposits, there is no way you should have a higher monthly than me.

All that being said, tell your sales associate that you want to negotiate the terms before the car arrives and get it in writing or you will be going elsewhere to place a new order.

[rhinothatflies]

Thanks for the heads up. Clearly I'm no good at this, hah. First car I've ever bought (leased), only just graduated. I want to say my selling price was $42,000. It's optioned as a dark grey on black sensatec M-Sport trim, track package, lighting package, cold weather package, driver assistance package, harmon kardon, and alarm (no moon roof, leather, or power seats). If I *am* willing to walk, which I think I am, I could regain some leverage...but what of my deposit? Ah yes I forgot to mention the lease is for 45,000 miles over three years.

[hyperzulu]

Originally Posted by rhinothatflies

Thanks for the heads up. Clearly I'm no good at this, hah. First car I've ever bought (leased), only just graduated. I want to say my selling price was $42,000. It's optioned as a dark grey on black sensatec M-Sport trim, track package, lighting package, cold weather package, driver assistance package, harmon kardon, and alarm (no moon roof, leather, or power seats). If I *am* willing to walk, which I think I am, I could regain some leverage...but what of my deposit?

I don't know about Michigan. Do you have a receipt for the deposit. Did you sign anything? Does anything you signed state you are remitting a deposit of $X sum which is non-refundable?

[rhinothatflies]

I haven't signed anything that said it was non-refundable. Now that you mention it. I'm going to renegotiate this thing for sure.

[pdubb]

Sounds like to me they're inflating the Money Factor cause it's his first car and maybe not much established credit.

How's your credit? Do you have much credit established?

[Cal]

Originally Posted by CF22

Well, it is 60% for 10k at 39 months, was really hoping for something better or a better incentive. The lower monthly payment on BMW's offer is BS. My car arrived at the dealer and I'll be signing the paperwork tomorrow.

Congrats! Glad the RV percentages are no longer a mystery. BTW, have you decided which rates to use? (36/10k 62%, .00129, or new ones at 39/10k 60%, 0013) If you placed an order, I assume you locked in previous rates.

Dan84, as has been suggested already, get the selling price, acquisition fee, and MF used in your lease calculation to better determine your "deal". Your CA should be able to provide you with the lease worksheet he/she used. There shouldn't be any secret there because when you go sign the papers, the purchase agreement will spell out the selling price, acquisition fee, RV, interest, etc. Your CA might as well be transparent from the start and just provide these figures to you beforehand.

In any case, doing some reverse calculations based on the info you provided so far, my guess is that the selling price is ~42350, assuming they also use 725 acquisition fee and .0013 MF. That gives an approximate discount of 44600-42350=2250, of which 500 is the holiday incentive. This is actually a pretty good discount for a base car (less difference between MSRP and invoice than a better equipped one), and also depending on where you are located. In my neck of the woods, that's a very good discount.


rhinothatflies, since you say you're a recent grad, look into getting the recent grad incentive/rebate applied.

[hyperzulu]

Originally Posted by pdubb

Sounds like to me they're inflating the Money Factor cause it's his first car and maybe not much established credit.

How's your credit? Do you have much credit established?

As a recent grad, he should have gotten market rate. It is part of the BMW recent college grad program...as long as his credit isn't ravaged by something already. Also ask for the $1000 incentive for this.

[hyperzulu]

http://www.bmwusa.com/Standard/Conte...teProgram.aspx

On second look, it appears even this requires a 24 month credit history, but maybe they are loose about it.

[pdubb]

Originally Posted by hyperzulu

As a recent grad, he should have gotten market rate. It is part of the BMW recent college grad program...as long as his credit isn't ravaged by something already. Also ask for the $1000 incentive for this.

Interesting. Good to know. Wonder why his deal was so much higher than the other guy with the m235i.

[hyperzulu]

Originally Posted by pdubb

Interesting. Good to know. Wonder why his deal was so much higher than the other guy with the m235i.

The dealer may have just decided to use a bit of consumer ignorance to his advantage. Unfortunately the kinds of predatory lending restrictions that exist in the banking world, don't extend to car loans? Maybe there should be, especially since BMWFS is a credit lender like any other bank.

[LV]

Can anyone confirm the Money Factor for November for European Delivery?
I have been quoted .0016. I know traditionally the MF has been higher for ED compared to US but did not know the exact difference.

[pdubb]

Originally Posted by hyperzulu

The dealer may have just decided to use a bit of consumer ignorance to his advantage. Unfortunately the kinds of predatory lending restrictions that exist in the banking world, don't extend to car loans? Maybe there should be, especially since BMWFS is a credit lender like any other bank.

Agree with you there.
It definitely is in his best interest to find out the residual, msrp and MF for the deal to double check.

[rhinothatflies]

I graduated from medical school in 2010 and have been in residency for the last three years. I owe $350,000 in medical school loans by now. Credit has taken a hell of a beating. I am working as a physician so I figured that would be good for something in terms of credit due to my income.

[rhinothatflies]

Is renegotiation a realistic possibility?

[beenthere1]

Originally Posted by rhinothatflies

Is renegotiation a realistic possibility?

Absolutely. The deal isn't done until the paperwork is signed. If you are in a major metro area, shop the deal to other dealerships. Remember, you need to keep your arms around lots of moving parts:

Negotiated Sale Price (some percentage of MSRP)
Money Factor (This is your interest rate)
Drive off fees (Delivery, tags, finance fees, etc)
Security Deposits (These reduce your interest rate. A great option if you have some free cash.)

Residual Value/Miles (a dealer shouldn't mess with these)

You can ask, specifically, for ALL of these numbers. If the dealer won't give them to you, it's a reasonable indication that something silly is going on.

Now, the shorthand method for people uncomfortable with numbers:

"This is a $45,000 car. I'm not putting anything down, and my monthly payment should be in the $420-440/mo range. If a dealer gives me that, it's close enough and I'll take it".

[pdubb]

Originally Posted by beenthere1

Absolutely. The deal isn't done until the paperwork is signed. If you are in a major metro area, shop the deal to other dealerships. Remember, you need to keep your arms around lots of moving parts:

Negotiated Sale Price (some percentage of MSRP)
Money Factor (This is your interest rate)
Drive off fees (Delivery, tags, finance fees, etc)
Security Deposits (These reduce your interest rate. A great option if you have some free cash.)

Residual Value/Miles (a dealer shouldn't mess with these)

You can ask, specifically, for ALL of these numbers. If the dealer won't give them to you, its a reasonable indication that something silly is going on.

Now, the shorthand method for people uncomfortable with numbers:

"This is a $45,000 car. I'm not putting anything down, and my monthly payment should be in the $420-440/mo range. If a dealer gives me that, it's close enough and I'll take it".

Do you mean MSD's? I thought a Security Deposit is what they require of some leasee's who have bad credit....??

[beenthere1]

Yes, MSDs was what I was referring to.

[rhinothatflies]

Originally Posted by beenthere1

Absolutely. The deal isn't done until the paperwork is signed. If you are in a major metro area, shop the deal to other dealerships. Remember, you need to keep your arms around lots of moving parts:

Negotiated Sale Price (some percentage of MSRP)
Money Factor (This is your interest rate)
Drive off fees (Delivery, tags, finance fees, etc)
Security Deposits (These reduce your interest rate. A great option if you have some free cash.)

Residual Value/Miles (a dealer shouldn't mess with these)

You can ask, specifically, for ALL of these numbers. If the dealer won't give them to you, it's a reasonable indication that something silly is going on.

Now, the shorthand method for people uncomfortable with numbers:

"This is a $45,000 car. I'm not putting anything down, and my monthly payment should be in the $420-440/mo range. If a dealer gives me that, it's close enough and I'll take it".

Thanks for the input. I'll be talking numbers with my guy real soon.