[B_Rice]

I taught myself when I bought my first car. Learning how to drive is easy, but mastering it can take a lifetime. All these cars have hill assist and autostart if you stall so it should be a breeze.

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by Wheelwright

There is zero feedback on M235i clutch (it is hydraulic). The clutch and flywheel are small and fragile carryovers from 228i which is done purposefully so that when they get burned out (usually together) BMW can charge Ferrari prices to replace them ($4800 in Canada which is what one expects to pay for a decent used-car here).

My honest advise: learn driving manual in a lesser-powered car like 228i or buy a properly engineered bullet-proof manual car like Dodge Hellcat or Camaro. You're much less likely to break those heavily built transmissions & clutches and even if you do you won't get gouged on the cost of replacement parts & labour.

Not true at all. The M235 uses a different flywheel and clutch disc and is more than up to the task of handling racing and more power than stock.

Look, we know you got screwed over by BMW Canada with your clutch/flywheel problem, but the problem was due to either a factory defect or installation error, not the parts themselves. Your beef should be with the way you were treated by BMW Canada. $4800 for a clutch and flywheel? LOL In what world did they come up with those numbers. The OEM clutch disc is $600 USD and the dual mass flywheel is $1000 USD.

The 6mt in the M235 is the same one used in the 1M and M2/3/4. It's a ZF unit and the one used in the 228 and 3/4 series is a Getrag unit.

[ianp622]

Beyond whether you can learn it, you'll have to figure out whether you'll even want to drive manual. I've driven a couple of hours over 4-5 days and I can certainly drive manual and have practiced tricky situations, but I just don't feel super comfortable with it and can't say I'd get the enjoyment out of it others might. Given the increased performance you'll get with a DCT it's really a question of what you enjoy these days, not getting the most out of your car which the manual used to provide.

[thewubwub]

Originally Posted by wtfbrah

So here's my situation. As I am now on a (12 month) waiting list for the M2, I am already beginning to think, DCT or 6MT.

In the mean time, my plan is to use a lease swapping site to get a short-term (hopefully about 12 months) 2015 or 2016 M235i lease.

I'm wondering if it's a good idea to try and get a manual to see how I like it.

Couple things. One, I have never driven a manual before, BUT, my father has one (volvo) and would be willing to teach me.

Two, I live in Cincinnati, but not downtown. The area in which I live has some hills, and a little traffic, but it's not that bad.

Im weighing up the benefits of an auto for daily driving versus a manual for "fun". Ultimately if I am going to wait the full 12 months for an M2 over an M240i, it's clearly for the fun factor, because for practicality, I would get an xDrive M240i.

You should just use the time you have til you get your next car, to learn how to drive a manual. The volvo should be a great way to learn it and not worry about breaking the car. Even then you can't really BREAK a car learning how to drive stick... unless you don't know how to clutch in, brake, then go barreling into something.

Get used to it, and once you do, you will truly understand why most enthusiasts prefer manual transmissions.

[Hellrot]

Originally Posted by wtfbrah

Because BMW just isn't making that many of them. My dealer is getting about 2 allocations per quarter, and I am #8 on their waiting list. I will shop around for a potentially shorter wait, but 12 months is probably about right.


It was explained to me like this: BMW just started with the M2. They have to be able to show that it's making money and in demand before diverting more resources (which are expensive) to making more of them. So starting in 2017, given the long waiting lists, BMW may start making more of them.

The other issue was the stop on M cars, which has been lifted. I ended up getting a discounted M235 instead of on M2 because I didn't want to wait and I'm totally happy with it.

Oh... and get a manual.

[wtfbrah]

I decided not to go with the manual because I want to drive the car hard and rev the engine high and the idea of a mis-shift is too much.

I mean I honestly think it's just freaking ridiculous that there isn't some sort of mechanical stop in place. It wouldn't be that hard to put an electronic arm that stops the shifter from being pushed into a gear that it doesn't have the revs for. But I can be inattentive at times, and the prospect of being in 3rd, reaching for 4th and getting 2nd and destroying my tranny / clutch is just ridiculous. I'll take the auto.

[Hellrot]

Originally Posted by wtfbrah

I decided not to go with the manual because I want to drive the car hard and rev the engine high and the idea of a mis-shift is too much.

I mean I honestly think it's just freaking ridiculous that there isn't some sort of mechanical stop in place. It wouldn't be that hard to put an electronic arm that stops the shifter from being pushed into a gear that it doesn't have the revs for. But I can be inattentive at times, and the prospect of being in 3rd, reaching for 4th and getting 2nd and destroying my tranny / clutch is just ridiculous. I'll take the auto.

You should probably be attentive when you're pushing your 50k+ car hard.

I think those are just nerves talking. A 235 or M2 is probably not the best vehicle to learn how to drive a manual on which is why many people have advocated for other options.

Most of the people who drive manuals, myself included, feel MORE comfortable and as if they are in more control than an auto. Besides its just more fun.

I think you should get a car you don't care about and learn to drive stick. If you are getting your M2 as a track car you may want to get a manual but if you're getting the M2 to HAVE an M2 and sit in freeway traffic, then go with the auto.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2awswE9bMl4

[redontheline]

Originally Posted by wtfbrah

I decided not to go with the manual because I want to drive the car hard and rev the engine high and the idea of a mis-shift is too much.

I mean I honestly think it's just freaking ridiculous that there isn't some sort of mechanical stop in place. It wouldn't be that hard to put an electronic arm that stops the shifter from being pushed into a gear that it doesn't have the revs for. But I can be inattentive at times, and the prospect of being in 3rd, reaching for 4th and getting 2nd and destroying my tranny / clutch is just ridiculous. I'll take the auto.

That's why you use backhand when shifting to 4th

[wtfbrah]

Originally Posted by redontheline

That's why you use backhand when shifting to 4th

Yes, I get that there are techniques to lessen the chance of making a mistake, but nobody is ever perfect. I just think it's stupid that there isn't a mechanical stop so that you can't go into a gear that you don't have the revs for.

[B_Rice]

Originally Posted by wtfbrah

Yes, I get that there are techniques to lessen the chance of making a mistake, but nobody is ever perfect. I just think it's stupid that there isn't a mechanical stop so that you can't go into a gear that you don't have the revs for.

The shifter kind of fights you when you're trying to put it in the wrong gear.

[redontheline]

Originally Posted by B_Rice

The shifter kind of fights you when you're trying to put it in the wrong gear.

Reminds me of my ex..

[jpnh]

Originally Posted by redontheline

Reminds me of my ex..

Ditto......aggrevation is one of the reason she's an ex

[wtfbrah]

Originally Posted by B_Rice

The shifter kind of fights you when you're trying to put it in the wrong gear.

Not enough. I want it to be impossible. If it were so, I'd buy the manual without a literal second thought. But the fact that I could be driving HARD, and shifting FAST (as this car is meant to do), and hit the wrong gear and fuck everything over, makes me not want the manual.