[wtfbrah]

So here's my situation. As I am now on a (12 month) waiting list for the M2, I am already beginning to think, DCT or 6MT.

In the mean time, my plan is to use a lease swapping site to get a short-term (hopefully about 12 months) 2015 or 2016 M235i lease.

I'm wondering if it's a good idea to try and get a manual to see how I like it.

Couple things. One, I have never driven a manual before, BUT, my father has one (volvo) and would be willing to teach me.

Two, I live in Cincinnati, but not downtown. The area in which I live has some hills, and a little traffic, but it's not that bad.

Im weighing up the benefits of an auto for daily driving versus a manual for "fun". Ultimately if I am going to wait the full 12 months for an M2 over an M240i, it's clearly for the fun factor, because for practicality, I would get an xDrive M240i.

[overcoil]

You can learn to drive a manual in a few hours or less.

[wtfbrah]

Originally Posted by ScottSinger

You can learn to drive a manual in a few hours or less.

What do you think about taking a 2015 M235i in manual for 12 months to see if I like it as a daily driver?

How different will it be from the M2 manual? I think the M2 does auto rev matching which the M235i won't, and the M2 also will have a rollback stop, which I don't think the 2015 M235i will.

[overcoil]

235 has rollback stop.
The rev-matching at this point I wouldn't worry about.

I don't know your life situation, but I personally wouldn't lease or buy w/planning to sell a 235 for twelve months. I'd buy a used manual car for that time and either keep or sell when your car comes in.

Most important, the roads you drive on, M2 has 19-inch wheels, and poor road surfaces and parking along curbs can destroy a tire. I have a 235 in Maryland and wouldn't get a M2 as a daily driver, only as a second car, primarily to wheels and parking a $60K car in crappy places or spaces.

[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by ScottSinger

You can learn to drive a manual in a few hours or less.

Agree, but it takes practice to get smooth and have it become reflexive. Here's the single most important exercise/skill to start with IMHO. From a standstill, repeatedly get the car to roll by releasing the clutch with zero throttle. Leave your right foot on the floor for the time being, other than to brake. You need to get your brain to realize it has a left leg in play while driving and start energizing that pathway. When you can smoothly get the vehicle rolling from stop in 1st gear to forward motion, the next skills of up and down shifting will start to come more naturally.

Of course, do all of this in an empty parking lot or private grounds where there is good space!

[overcoil]

Also, if you spend a few months watching YouTube videos on how to drive manual transmission and get a book that teaches driving manual transmission and teaches heel & toe, and you mimic the action while sitting - you can really quicken and improve the learning process. Also do the same with mimicking how to shift a motorcycle - when you understand the theory.

[ralawren]

My wife (then girlfriend) learned in 30 minutes. I was very impressed and ended up marrying her!

YouTube is probably a good source. See if you can rent a manual vehicle (car or truck) and practice. It isn't that hard to become competent. But rev matching and 1-2 shifts can be tough and will take some time.

[wtfbrah]

Originally Posted by ScottSinger

235 has rollback stop.
The rev-matching at this point I wouldn't worry about.

I don't know your life situation, but I personally wouldn't lease or buy w/planning to sell a 235 for twelve months. I'd buy a used manual car for that time and either keep or sell when your car comes in.

Most important, the roads you drive on, M2 has 19-inch wheels, and poor road surfaces and parking along curbs can destroy a tire. I have a 235 in Maryland and wouldn't get a M2 as a daily driver, only as a second car, primarily to wheels and parking a $60K car in crappy places or spaces.

I want the 235 now with the specific goal in mind of deciding over the next 12 months if I actually want an M2. If I love the 235 xDrive then I won't use my allocation for an M2.

Aren't the 235 wheels 18 inches? There can't be THAT much of a difference. The roads can be pretty crappy around here, though. Some decent sized potholes, but I think they'd destroy an 18 inch wheel as well.

About parking it in bad places, I do understand that. One attractive thing about the M240 prospect is the idea that it's much more "under the radar". I mean, it's a nice looking car, but doesn't stand out the way a LBB M2 does.

[overcoil]

I think the difference between 18 and 19 susceptability is greater then many people think.

These are all great cars. (whether manual transmission or automated)

[wtfbrah]

Originally Posted by ScottSinger

I think the difference between 18 and 19 susceptability is greater then many people think.

These are all great cars. (whether manual transmission or automated)

I could always replace the wheels with 18 inch wheels if it was really a problem. Same tire width and 18 inch wheels shouldn't change anything, right?

[BentZero]

When I was a young buck I got a job as a lot boy at an auto dealership so I could be around cars. During the interview they asked if I could drive stick to which of course I said I could even though I had never even tried to do so.

First day on the job and they tell me to grab lunch for everyone and tossed me the keys to a truck. Of course it's a stick. Pretty much had to learn on the fly. Buddy of mine told me to just give it a good bit of gas and ease out the clutch. I made it off of the lot with no problems. Stalled once at the next stop light and haven't looked back ever since.

I was 16. If I could teach myself in a matter of 5 mins you can too. Obviously I wasn't awesome at it at first, but over the next couple of days and numerous job related errands I was good.

Do yourself a favor and go with the 6MT. That's assuming that traffic isn't that big of a deal in your area. If your commute has you in constant stop and go traffic then I'd reconsider.

[Rayscott]

I taught my wife how to drive my 66 GTO. No power steering, 4 speed hurst shifter and a heavy duty clutch. I also taught my daughters to drive a stick. Piece of cake with todays manuals.

[nike001]

12 month waiting period..... if you're lucky.

Quit waiting your life away and pick up a slightly used 235 or order a 240 and have the same amount of fun.

EDIT: Since you said 12 month waiting period, that leads me to believe you're at LEAST 3rd in line at your local dealer (figuring they get 1 allocation per production cycle) and said 12 months just to give you a timeframe. Since I don't quite understand the hype on the M2, I hope BMW does what they said they're going to do and start ramping up production on them.

[Sleslie]

I taught myself over a weekend. I was about 17 and had only driven my parent's automatic (I think it was an Omni, yuck). They had a manual Rabbit that I had never driven. They went away and took the automatic. Knowing I didn't know how to drive the manual they didn't explicitly say I couldn't use it...

Only really took a few hours, and one life-flash-before-my-eyes stall, to get the hang of it, clear sailing once I learned that 3rd wasn't 1st.

[Tpeterson]

I've been driving a manual transmission for more years than I care to admit to. The BMW hydraulic clutch is the easiest to use I've experienced. You'll learn in less than a day,but it will take several months to get completely proficient.
Use the method Sportstick recommends and you'll get a good feel for how the clutch engages,which is the key to driving with a manual transmission.

[Blue2]

You can learn in just a few sessions. When I was in college I had a couple friends generously let me learn on their cars in parking lots. I had an automatic car at the time. After 2 or 3 little parking lot sessions I went and picked up my manual Mustang from the dealership and drove it home. The first week was nerve wracking, but I only stalled once or twice. By week two it's like second nature. Haven't had an automatic transmission since.

People will often use the traffic/commute excuse as a reason for not owning a manual, but don't be dissuaded by that. I've had jobs where I've commuted 45 minutes each way in heavy traffic and never once was I bothered by having a manual transmission, even in bumper-to-bumper traffic. It becomes so second nature that you don't even think about it.

[wtfbrah]

Originally Posted by nike001

12 month waiting period..... if you're lucky.

Quit waiting your life away and pick up a slightly used 235 or order a 240 and have the same amount of fun.

EDIT: Since you said 12 month waiting period, that leads me to believe you're at LEAST 3rd in line at your local dealer (figuring they get 1 allocation per production cycle) and said 12 months just to give you a timeframe. Since I don't quite understand the hype on the M2, I hope BMW does what they said they're going to do and start ramping up production on them.

I am 8th. They get 2-3 allocations per quarter. So 12 months at worst, and shorter if production is ramped up.

I'll say this, I drove the M235 and the M4. The M-tuned suspension is something else. The car has a more visceral, intense feel and the steering gives you more feedback. I would rather have an M2 than an M240, I think, but time will tell. If the wait becomes unbearable or I would rather have the M240 for it's less intense looks and softer ride, I'll get that. But if the M2 is what I really want, a year isn't a bad wait.

[BentZero]

Originally Posted by wtfbrah

I am 8th. They get 2-3 allocations per quarter. So 12 months at worst, and shorter if production is ramped up.

I'll say this, I drove the M235 and the M4. The M-tuned suspension is something else. The car has a more visceral, intense feel and the steering gives you more feedback. I would rather have an M2 than an M240, I think, but time will tell. If the wait becomes unbearable or I would rather have the M240 for it's less intense looks and softer ride, I'll get that. But if the M2 is what I really want, a year isn't a bad wait.

I waited two years before ordering my car and I'm glad that I did. At one point I was a signature away from buying a F30. Man am I happy that I decided to wait until I got what I really wanted.

[wtfbrah]

Originally Posted by BentZero

I waited two years before ordering my car and I'm glad that I did. At one point I was a signature away from buying a F30. Man am I happy that I decided to wait until I got what I really wanted.

Can you elaborate?


The M240/M2 isn't just about wait time. I'm also considering other things - rougher ride, 19 inch vs 18 inch wheels, looks (do I want the aggressive M2 or more conservative, under the radar M240), xDrive, colors, loudness, and overall experience.


I know if I want the absolute maximum visceral sports car experience I want the M2. But I don't know if I want the absolute maximum visceral sports car experience every day as my daily driver.

[BentZero]

Originally Posted by wtfbrah

Can you elaborate?


The M240/M2 isn't just about wait time. I'm also considering other things - rougher ride, 19 inch vs 18 inch wheels, looks (do I want the aggressive M2 or more conservative, under the radar M240), xDrive, colors, loudness, and overall experience.


I know if I want the absolute maximum visceral sports car experience I want the M2. But I don't know if I want the absolute maximum visceral sports car experience every day as my daily driver.

For me the F30 just wasn't visceral enough. It felt too much like an overpriced Camry or Accord sans the standard features. I was also tempted by the new WRX as it had most of what I wanted, but I wasn't quite keen on AWD. I really wanted a RWD car. I knew that the 2 series was coming soon, but I have kids and I just didn't think that they would be okay with the rear seats. Well, kids got older, child seats got smaller (child to booster seat) and nothing on the market spoke to me like the M235i did.

I took it for a test drive and I was sold. I also considered waiting for the M2, but it's too much car for the roads I drive in a regular basis. Basically, here in the low country of South Carolina there's not much need for a car with sweet suspension. Roads here are pretty straight and all highway. If I still lived in California with access to some sweet canyon roads then I would have waited. From a power standpoint I knew that I could tune the N55 to where I needed it to be. I've yet to do a tune, but I did get an intake and exhaust. Those two mods alone are enough for me right now.

As far as looks go, my car is far from under the radar. I think it's the black on white scheme I have going with my mineral white car. It's fun to see ppl craning their necks to get a look at it. I'm no attention whore, but it does feel nice to have a beautiful car. Not as much of a chick magnet as when i had a motorcycle, but I'm sure that wifie appreciates that lol.

[pimp4cheddar]

Did you say a 12 month wait list???? Holy shit that's insane...why so long?


Also - my wife taught me how to drive stick an hour after I bought my E92 335 in an empty parking lot. I brought a car that I didn't drive because I didn't know how to drive stick. I learned in an hour...and drove to work in the morning (obviously with beginner shifts lol).

It's not that hard...you'll stall maybe 3 times and then get the hang.

[wtfbrah]

Originally Posted by pimp4cheddar

Did you say a 12 month wait list???? Holy shit that's insane...why so long?

Because BMW just isn't making that many of them. My dealer is getting about 2 allocations per quarter, and I am #8 on their waiting list. I will shop around for a potentially shorter wait, but 12 months is probably about right.


It was explained to me like this: BMW just started with the M2. They have to be able to show that it's making money and in demand before diverting more resources (which are expensive) to making more of them. So starting in 2017, given the long waiting lists, BMW may start making more of them.