[M2audioman]

I should add that the purchase experience with the Caddy dealership was excellent. Definitely on par or better than the best experiences I've had with BMW. So that's a good start at least.

[fancyfl1ght]

Originally Posted by 335audioman

Just to be clear, BMW by no means invented the sports car. Many would argue that Porsche did. I would argue that almost every car on the market is an imitation of another car. Audi, BMW and Mercedes all copy from each other's playbooks. Do you really think the 6 series Gran Coupe would exist if Mercedes didn't come up with the CLS first? That's how competition works in the auto industry.

Now, I completely agree that GM has questionable quality. However, the ATS-V is, from a performance standpoint, an incredible vehicle. No one can argue that. Is the build quality on par with BMW? No, it's not. Does that mean the car isn't still a great value for the money (on a lease)? No, it doesn't.

I think we all realize that you are not a fan of the Cadillac brand. Neither am I to be honest. However, I am a well-versed car enthusiast that understands certain cars are worth the risk at a given price point and the ATS-V is one of them.

You can continue to buy BMWs and I'll likely be back in a Bimmer at some point in the next few years because I do like their vehicles. However, I can happily say that I'm going to enjoy owning the ATS-V because it really is a spectacular performance car that exceeds the M4 on a variety of levels at a lease price point more in line with a 328/340i.

Copying is okay. All the brands you mentioned have a pedigree unique to the brand. What pedigree does the caddy have except the cimarron.

[fancyfl1ght]

Originally Posted by 335audioman

I should add that the purchase experience with the Caddy dealership was excellent. Definitely on par or better than the best experiences I've had with BMW. So that's a good start at least.

Enjoy the car. When the ATS brakes were fixed, it was a great car. Shame on BMW for diluting to brand to Lexus drivers for market share.

I GET that Caddy is exploiting this weakness with BMW. I just think Caddy can do much much better than just copying BMW. I do hope the ex Audi ceo can turn things around.

[M2audioman]

Originally Posted by fancyfl1ght

Copying is okay. All the brands you mentioned have a pedigree unique to the brand. What pedigree does the caddy have except the cimarron.

I'm not sure why pedigree even matters aside from allowing those companies to charge more for their vehicles because of it. To answer your question though....

1953 Eldorado Convertible
1967 Eldorado Coupe
1948 Series 62 Club Coupe

...and let's not forget the 1908 Caddy which was the first production car with interchangeable standardized parts.

[M2audioman]

Originally Posted by fancyfl1ght

Enjoy the car. When the ATS brakes were fixed, it was a great car. Shame on BMW for diluting to brand to Lexus drivers for market share.

I GET that Caddy is exploiting this weakness with BMW. I just think Caddy can do much much better than just copying BMW. I do hope the ex Audi ceo can turn things around.

Thing is, Caddy is actually churning out some excellent cars from an enthusiast standpoint. Fantastic driver's cars. They just have to stick to the blueprint and they will be fine. The new CT6 is also an excellent car. Plus, this new concept looks promising:

http://www.leftlanenews.com/cadillac...ept-92596.html

Again, I'm not a Caddy fan in any way, shape or form. I just think the ATS-V is a great toy for the money.

[fancyfl1ght]

Originally Posted by 335audioman

I'm not sure why pedigree even matters aside from allowing those companies to charge more for their vehicles because of it. To answer your question though....

1953 Eldorado Convertible
1967 Eldorado Coupe
1948 Series 62 Club Coupe

...and let's not forget the 1908 Caddy which was the first production car with interchangeable standardized parts.

That is what I mean! What great cars Cadillac made when they had an identity. I would argue as great the ATS is, Cadlliac is still searching for one. The Ciel concept was a step in the right direction, but GM executives killed it.

I think for price and performance you did very well, since the m4 is really the Lexus drivers car, for an old school bmw guy like me.

[15GT-TO-M235]

Originally Posted by 335audioman

Thing is, Caddy is actually churning out some excellent cars from an enthusiast standpoint. Fantastic driver's cars. They just have to stick to the blueprint and they will be fine. The new CT6 is also an excellent car. Plus, this new concept looks promising:

http://www.leftlanenews.com/cadillac...ept-92596.html

Again, I'm not a Caddy fan in any way, shape or form. I just think the ATS-V is a great toy for the money.

how about some pics on your new car?

[Joe240]

Originally Posted by 15GT-TO-M235

how about some pics on your new car?

Here, here! I second this motion!

[Y0tsuya]

Another data point to consider is reliability. The 2-series are among the most reliable while the ATS is just the opposite.

http://www.consumerreports.org/car-r...cars-by-class/

[sea6speed]

Originally Posted by Lucky13

Pretty funny but Autoweek ran an article today about Cadillac and how they can't give away the CTS. 3 different guys gave reviews of the car and said its good but nobody wants Cadillacs except in China. Maybe equal to Germans in performance but the electronics are not and consumers just don't want them and people that own Mercedes, Audi and BMW's won't even test drive them, not my words but dirrectly from the Autoweek article today.

That seems to be the case. One of my neighbors is the manager of a local Grammy winning hip hop musician and he was cycling through an endless array of new Cadillacs, probably loaned to him as promotions.

[DF]

Originally Posted by sea6speed

That seems to be the case. One of my neighbors is the manager of a local Grammy winning hip hop musician and he was cycling through an endless array of new Cadillacs, probably loaned to him as promotions.

So they manage Ryan?

[Reznick]

Originally Posted by 335audioman

Just to be clear, BMW by no means invented the sports car. Many would argue that Porsche did. I would argue that almost every car on the market is an imitation of another car. Audi, BMW and Mercedes all copy from each other's playbooks. Do you really think the 6 series Gran Coupe would exist if Mercedes didn't come up with the CLS first? That's how competition works in the auto industry.

Now, I completely agree that GM has questionable quality. However, the ATS-V is, from a performance standpoint, an incredible vehicle. No one can argue that. Is the build quality on par with BMW? No, it's not. Does that mean the car isn't still a great value for the money (on a lease)? No, it doesn't.

I think we all realize that you are not a fan of the Cadillac brand. Neither am I to be honest. However, I am a well-versed car enthusiast that understands certain cars are worth the risk at a given price point and the ATS-V is one of them.

You can continue to buy BMWs and I'll likely be back in a Bimmer at some point in the next few years because I do like their vehicles. However, I can happily say that I'm going to enjoy owning the ATS-V because it really is a spectacular performance car that exceeds the M4 on a variety of levels at a lease price point more in line with a 328/340i.

I think it's cool that you're looking into the ATS-V. I'd have no hesitation jumping on that deal. I tend to drive what I like. Currently there are 2 Cadillacs ( CTSV coupe & 3.6 ATS. Sold the 3.6 CTS) sitting in the garage with our BMW's and a few others. I won't get into Cadillac build quality perception people have. It could be the best in the world and some people will still call it shit. Perception is reality . The fact that the ATS and CTS aren't selling well has nothing to do with quality. Again, there's quality and there's perceived quality. My e92's were some of the most troublesome cars I've owned and I know I'm not alone. It's the running joke of owning a BMW. Get used to being at the dealership. Yet my Cadillacs have been trouble free.
I could care less if people think Cadillac "copied" BMW. They did what any smart person would do. They bench marked what was a great car.In the end, we win because there is one more awesome car out there to choose from..People just have to be brave enough to choose the Cadillac.For now, I'm kinda happy they aren't. The ATS I bought was $17K off sticker (it's RWD and I'm in upstate NY) So there again when people talk about the horrible depreciation for Caddy, I just laugh. Both Cadillacs I still own have held their value (based off of what I paid), better then my BMW's. Sure there are things I don't like about my Cadillacs ( HATE the leather in the ATS), but I can find something in EVERY car I've owned.
So all that and my next new car will probably be an M240. I've kinda given up on the 3 series but love the 2. I figure in another couple years there will be some killer deals to be had on an ATS-V. When the right deal comes along , I'll gladly park it in my garage .Hope you enjoy yours!

[Fabspeed Motorsport]

You are not crazy for considering the ATS-V. Not only do I think it is gorgeous but it's a lot of car for that price.

[z335is]

Current F80 M3 owner here and I was also recently offered an ATS-V Coupe with an MSRP of 73k at $580 a month with zero out of pocket. Mind you, that's about $200 less a month than I pay for my M3.

I walked in to the dealer as almost a joke, but now I'm really considering it! Is the M3 worth the $200 extra per month? Hmm....

[Bleeped]

Reading this thread caused me to look at the ATSV's at the dealer a few blocks from me. They have a bunch of them 2 of which are discounted $10k also without me walking in the door. Will need to test drive when Im back in town. I actually think they look great in person and I also tend to drive what I like and not very partial to just one brand. Still love my 2 but the Caddy may win me over for a couple years.

[chattanooga240]

Originally Posted by z335is

Current F80 M3 owner here and I was also recently offered an ATS-V Coupe with an MSRP of 73k at $580 a month with zero out of pocket. Mind you, that's about $200 less a month than I pay for my M3.

I walked in to the dealer as almost a joke, but now I'm really considering it! Is the M3 worth the $200 extra per month? Hmm....

Yep that is a damn good deal, would definitely make me think twice.

[msej449]

Am I alone in thinking that, well, the ATS-V just looks awful? Underneath the bodywork it's probably a fine machine, I'm sure. But to me it looks like a toddler's drawing of a car. Of course, this is completely subjective - I wonder if this is a case of a car that would look peculiar in a small European village street looking spot-on in a more spacious US urban context. But I can't really believe that someone would put an M2 or M240i alongside one of these for comparison, unless they didn't care about looks at all and were just going on the basis of value-for money, which is of course a perfectly reasonable approach.

[chattanooga240]

Originally Posted by msej449

Am I alone in thinking that, well, the ATS-V just looks awful? Underneath the bodywork it's probably a fine machine, I'm sure. But to me it looks like a toddler's drawing of a car. Of course, this is completely subjective - I wonder if this is a case of a car that would look peculiar in a small European village street looking spot-on in a more spacious US urban context. But I can't really believe that someone would put an M2 or M240i alongside one of these for comparison, unless they didn't care about looks at all and were just going on the basis of value-for money, which is of course a perfectly reasonable approach.

The ATS V looks like a beast.

[bimmerfile]

Originally Posted by msej449

Am I alone in thinking that, well, the ATS-V just looks awful?...........................

Caddies design language is edgy and that kind of styling generally elicits some kind of emotional response with some people loving it and some hating it.
You, apparently fall into the latter camp.
I'm betting that Caddy cares no more about your opinion than you do about their design as they are targetting potential customers in the former.

[msej449]

Originally Posted by bimmerfile

Caddies design language is edgy and that kind of styling generally elicits some kind of emotional response with some people loving it and some hating it.
You, apparently fall into the latter camp.
I'm betting that Caddy cares no more about your opinion than you do about their design as they are targetting potential customers in the former.

I'm not selling to them, they're selling to me. They need my business, I don't need theirs. They do care what I think because I'm a potential customer they're not managing to reach.

I'd certainly agree that the Caddies design is striking and probably appeals to people who feel the BMW styling is anonymous/bland. I think that any car manufacturer cares what their target customers think, as much whether they buy the car as if they don't.

[bimmerfile]

Originally Posted by msej449

'm not selling to them, they're selling to me. They need my business, I don't need theirs. They do care what I think because I'm a potential customer they're not managing to reach.

No, they're not "selling to you". They don't "need your business".
You don't like their design language, so you are not a "potential customer" and any effort selling to you would be a waste of their time and money.
They are selling to people who like their design language.

[msej449]

Originally Posted by bimmerfile

No, they're not "selling to you". They don't "need your business".
You don't like their design language, so you are not a "potential customer" and any effort selling to you would be a waste of their time and money.
They are selling to people who like their design language.

Please don't take this personally, as I suspect you are doing. I simply don't like the styling. Like I don't like the styling of the current generation of Mercedes. I've owned Audis and Mercedes, and it's a factor. Some people don't like BMW styling - I can understand why. Sometimes people like a change.

I think the OP had a very reasonable comment and of course it's worth looking at other cars. All I said was that I don't like the styling. I'm cool with someone disagreeing with my preference but I don't really understand why I'm somehow not entitled to an opinion because of some nebulous concept of 'design language'.