[Bemo]

How about the "end" price? Let's talk about this as well, how many would buy a fully loaded M2 for $65k?

[PackPride85]

Originally Posted by Bemo

How about the "end" price? Let's talk about this as well, how many would buy a fully loaded M2 for $65k?

Not me.

[gaijin]

Originally Posted by Bemo

How about the "end" price? Let's talk about this as well, how many would buy a fully loaded M2 for $65k?

If the majority of speculations places the base car at around $53K, then it is more than doable to see a fully loaded M2 at $12K above the base. With that said, if I were seriously in the market at the get-go, I'd go with it especially if fully loaded means hi-performance upgrades such as more lightweight stuff, CF, etc.

After all my idea of what my M2 would be comes close to what other marques have done in the past with their ultra-performance model offerings.

[dmboone25]

Originally Posted by PackPride85

Not me.

Me either - that's approaching a different "level" of car that could be within reach at that kind of price point.

[W///]

I'd rather have a stripped M3 than a loaded M2

[dmboone25]

Originally Posted by W///

I'd rather have a stripped M3 than a loaded M2

+1

Going to drive one today on my lunch hour...I am very curious to see how it feels in comparison to the 2er.

I have been in one before, but never driven the S55. I hope it tickles my fancy.

[W///]

Originally Posted by dmboone25

+1

Going to drive one today on my lunch hour...I am very curious to see how it feels in comparison to the 2er.

I have been in one before, but never driven the S55. I hope it tickles my fancy.

Good!

Maybe then you'll be as excited about the M2 as I am after driving the M3/4

To me, the most impressive part was the chassis and the brakes. The engine was pretty ridiculous too.

[dmboone25]

Originally Posted by W///

Good!

Maybe then you'll be as excited about the M2 as I am after driving the M3/4

To me, the most impressive part was the chassis and the brakes. The engine was pretty ridiculous too.

Considering my biggest complaint with the 2er, I am really excited to see how the suspension feels - I am hoping it feels very different, specifically more stiff and composed.

And I have high hopes for the engine too.

[W///]

Originally Posted by dmboone25

Considering my biggest complaint with the 2er, I am really excited to see how the suspension feels - I am hoping it feels very different, specifically more stiff and composed.

And I have high hopes for the engine too.

Let us know how it goes man

[nachob]

Originally Posted by W///

I'd rather have a stripped M3 than a loaded M2

Same here. But probably take 2 over 3 if both strippers. Loading these types of cars is nuts. People want carbon this and carbon that but bloat the cars with frills. There are so many fluff wagons already why not get one instead of ruining the m2. Loading an M2 is like asking for a diet coke then adding 30 teaspoons of sugar. Why not just get a jolt cola?

[W///]

Originally Posted by nachob

Same here. But probably take 2 over 3 if both strippers. Loading these types of cars is nuts. People want carbon this and carbon that but bloat the cars with frills. There are so many fluff wagons already why not get one instead of ruining the m2. Loading an M2 is like asking for a diet coke then adding 30 teaspoons of sugar. Why not just get a jolt cola?

Haha very true! Right now, my option list includes metallic paint and that's about it. Doesn't get much more basic than that. I might treat myself to heated seats if cloth is not offered.

I'm really hoping that I'm able to get this car in the high 40s with discounts and ED.

[dmboone25]

Originally Posted by W///

Let us know how it goes man

So I have driven the same M4 twice in the last two days. There weren't any M3s on the lot, so to get a general feel for the S55 and the better suspension, it was M4 or no drive at all.

In full disclosure, the car had less than 100 miles on it, so the sales guys were very adamant on me keeping the car under 5K RPMs. I was able to do that for the entirety of both rides, but for one blast off the line where I got close to 6K in second gear.

First and foremost, remember that i went into the test drive not really knowing what to expect. The F8X Ms haven't been universally praised, unlike the 235, which has been repeatedly praised and adulated over...and which I haven't been very impressed with - so I tried to be as objective as possible.

The M4 had DCT and the Executive package, so HUD was present. No adaptive suspension.

Steering Feel: this is one place where I had felt that the 235 wasn't bad - the electric steering in the 2er is pretty good, and I haven't had many complaints. Until I drove the M4. The sharpest setting was satisfyingly heavy, while still feeling quick and easy to direct the front of the car. The M boffins clearly have put some time into this part of the car - it is much better than the 2er. Not to say that the 235 is lacking, the M4 was simply provided a more rewarding experience. I liked it a lot.

Brakes: this is another place in the 235 that I haven't had complaints with - and once again, the M4 was better in my opinion. The M4 I drove had the normal brakes, not the CCB option. There was, overall, a more secure pedal feel and more bite as you pressed down. It really felt like you could bring the car to a composed stop in a very big hurry. Nice upgrade over the 2.

DCT: This is a tougher comparison, as my 235 has the MT, but I have to admit...man this thing shifts fast and precise. In the most aggressive setting, it just pops through the gears, and it is quite nice to feel that from the driver's seat. There is also a nice little blip in the throttle when you are slowing down and in the most aggressive setting - which wasn't present in my DCT-equipped 135 from 2010. I was pleasantly surprised overall and this is one option I would definitely consider after getting some time with it.

Suspension: Far and away my biggest gripe with the 235 - aka the "squishy" moniker than i am now mocked with by my buddies. The M4...ummm...doesn't suffer from a similar problem. It was nice and stiff, and felt very composed over both smooth and bumpy portions of the road. The test drive took me on flat, curvy, straight, highway, etc. - and there wasn't a situation in which the car didn't excel. The car just felt so planted - you could feel the weight of it, but at the same time, it felt tight - that's exactly how my buddy CHack described it, as he was in the car too. Very big difference here, and in a good way in my opinion. I was truly impressed with that - and if the M2 has a similar feel, it will be leaps and bounds over the 235.

Engine: this one has a bit of a caveat, that i mentioned above - I wasn't above to really push the car through each gear - I was able to go fast and feel how the car responded at speed (the grip is incredible by the way) but I am not 100% sure on the engine. It certainly sounds better in the cabin, but I am not sure if that is merely active sound shenanigans at work or not. Definitely felt faster than the 235, but how much I cannot say. From 1-5k there is a significant difference, but I wasn't floored by the engine. Perhaps it comes alive further in the rev range - I haven't done enough research to know where the max HP and Torque come in. One major difference is how quickly the S55 revs. It just whips through the range and before you know it, you're in 4th gear and approaching silly speeds. I was really impressed with that aspect of the engine response. The 235 truly felt lazy afterwards. Is it manic, in the same way that my dad's Z4MC is? No - but again, I wasn't able to really rev it out either - my guess is that there is quite a bit left in the 5K+ part of the range.

Throttle: Again, another big difference here - generally speaking, both N55s I have had seemed to lack the same throttle response of my N54 - but the S55 outshines either one by a long way in my opinion. I am sure I would drive around in the most aggressive modes 99% of the time because it is so easy to get what you're looking for out of the gas pedal - the engine responds very quickly to slight or large inputs - which is nice. It seems like I just have to floor the 235 now to get it to move with any urgency. That gets old after a while, and reminded of it once again after getting back in my 235.

Final Thoughts: Wow...what a car - I really really think I would like the M3 after that demonstration. I think the 3 looks better and weighs about the same, plus it's a little cheaper. The car sounded better, had a much more capable suspension, unbelievable grip, outstanding brakes, and the first version of the X55 engine that I liked right off the bat. And that was just up to 5K RPMs. In short, the car is leaps and bounds above the 235, as it should be, being nearly 25K dollars more expensive. But I would skip out on most of the options - just DCT, 19s, and likely LEDs and Alpine White...which still leaves me in a conundrum - the F80/82 are awesome - but are they $400 more a month over what I am already paying awesome? I am not sure of that. $200, yes. $400 or more...I don't think so. As a result, I am going to seriously start looking for someone who will deal closer to the 7% below MSRP like David Aviles - if I can find that, I think I am going to do it...but we will see.

[Bemo]

Originally Posted by dmboone25

So I have driven the same M4 twice in the last two days. There weren't any M3s on the lot, so to get a general feel for the S55 and the better suspension, it was M4 or no drive at all.

In full disclosure, the car had less than 100 miles on it, so the sales guys were very adamant on me keeping the car under 5K RPMs. I was able to do that for the entirety of both rides, but for one blast off the line where I got close to 6K in second gear.

First and foremost, remember that i went into the test drive not really knowing what to expect. The F8X Ms haven't been universally praised, unlike the 235, which has been repeatedly praised and adulated over...and which I haven't been very impressed with - so I tried to be as objective as possible.

The M4 had DCT and the Executive package, so HUD was present. No adaptive suspension.

Steering Feel: this is one place where I had felt that the 235 wasn't bad - the electric steering in the 2er is pretty good, and I haven't had many complaints. Until I drove the M4. The sharpest setting was satisfyingly heavy, while still feeling quick and easy to direct the front of the car. The M boffins clearly have put some time into this part of the car - it is much better than the 2er. Not to say that the 235 is lacking, the M4 was simply provided a more rewarding experience. I liked it a lot.

Brakes: this is another place in the 235 that I haven't had complaints with - and once again, the M4 was better in my opinion. The M4 I drove had the normal brakes, not the CCB option. There was, overall, a more secure pedal feel and more bite as you pressed down. It really felt like you could bring the car to a composed stop in a very big hurry. Nice upgrade over the 2.

DCT: This is a tougher comparison, as my 235 has the MT, but I have to admit...man this thing shifts fast and precise. In the most aggressive setting, it just pops through the gears, and it is quite nice to feel that from the driver's seat. There is also a nice little blip in the throttle when you are slowing down and in the most aggressive setting - which wasn't present in my DCT-equipped 135 from 2010. I was pleasantly surprised overall and this is one option I would definitely consider after getting some time with it.

Suspension: Far and away my biggest gripe with the 235 - aka the "squishy" moniker than i am now mocked with by my buddies. The M4...ummm...doesn't suffer from a similar problem. It was nice and stiff, and felt very composed over both smooth and bumpy portions of the road. The test drive took me on flat, curvy, straight, highway, etc. - and there wasn't a situation in which the car didn't excel. The car just felt so planted - you could feel the weight of it, but at the same time, it felt tight - that's exactly how my buddy CHack described it, as he was in the car too. Very big difference here, and in a good way in my opinion. I was truly impressed with that - and if the M2 has a similar feel, it will be leaps and bounds over the 235.

Engine: this one has a bit of a caveat, that i mentioned above - I wasn't above to really push the car through each gear - I was able to go fast and feel how the car responded at speed (the grip is incredible by the way) but I am not 100% sure on the engine. It certainly sounds better in the cabin, but I am not sure if that is merely active sound shenanigans at work or not. Definitely felt faster than the 235, but how much I cannot say. From 1-5k there is a significant difference, but I wasn't floored by the engine. Perhaps it comes alive further in the rev range - I haven't done enough research to know where the max HP and Torque come in. One major difference is how quickly the S55 revs. It just whips through the range and before you know it, you're in 4th gear and approaching silly speeds. I was really impressed with that aspect of the engine response. The 235 truly felt lazy afterwards. Is it manic, in the same way that my dad's Z4MC is? No - but again, I wasn't able to really rev it out either - my guess is that there is quite a bit left in the 5K+ part of the range.

Throttle: Again, another big difference here - generally speaking, both N55s I have had seemed to lack the same throttle response of my N54 - but the S55 outshines either one by a long way in my opinion. I am sure I would drive around in the most aggressive modes 99% of the time because it is so easy to get what you're looking for out of the gas pedal - the engine responds very quickly to slight or large inputs - which is nice. It seems like I just have to floor the 235 now to get it to move with any urgency. That gets old after a while, and reminded of it once again after getting back in my 235.

Final Thoughts: Wow...what a car - I really really think I would like the M3 after that demonstration. I think the 3 looks better and weighs about the same, plus it's a little cheaper. The car sounded better, had a much more capable suspension, unbelievable grip, outstanding brakes, and the first version of the X55 engine that I liked right off the bat. And that was just up to 5K RPMs. In short, the car is leaps and bounds above the 235, as it should be, being nearly 25K dollars more expensive. But I would skip out on most of the options - just DCT, 19s, and likely LEDs and Alpine White...which still leaves me in a conundrum - the F80/82 are awesome - but are they $400 more a month over what I am already paying awesome? I am not sure of that. $200, yes. $400 or more...I don't think so. As a result, I am going to seriously start looking for someone who will deal closer to the 7% below MSRP like David Aviles - if I can find that, I think I am going to do it...but we will see.

Nice review. I haven't yet driven the M3/4 because the local stealer didn't have any but i'm not pushing the issue as I don't want to have an impulse buy. Patience until the M2 comes out and we'll see what happens.

BTW, if you're serious about picking up an M3/4, go to Germany and save more than 7% off MSRP...most folks are getting deals at $1500 over ED Invoice.

[W///]

Originally Posted by dmboone25

So I have driven the same M4 twice in the last two days. There weren't any M3s on the lot, so to get a general feel for the S55 and the better suspension, it was M4 or no drive at all.

In full disclosure, the car had less than 100 miles on it, so the sales guys were very adamant on me keeping the car under 5K RPMs. I was able to do that for the entirety of both rides, but for one blast off the line where I got close to 6K in second gear.

First and foremost, remember that i went into the test drive not really knowing what to expect. The F8X Ms haven't been universally praised, unlike the 235, which has been repeatedly praised and adulated over...and which I haven't been very impressed with - so I tried to be as objective as possible.

The M4 had DCT and the Executive package, so HUD was present. No adaptive suspension.

Steering Feel: this is one place where I had felt that the 235 wasn't bad - the electric steering in the 2er is pretty good, and I haven't had many complaints. Until I drove the M4. The sharpest setting was satisfyingly heavy, while still feeling quick and easy to direct the front of the car. The M boffins clearly have put some time into this part of the car - it is much better than the 2er. Not to say that the 235 is lacking, the M4 was simply provided a more rewarding experience. I liked it a lot.

Brakes: this is another place in the 235 that I haven't had complaints with - and once again, the M4 was better in my opinion. The M4 I drove had the normal brakes, not the CCB option. There was, overall, a more secure pedal feel and more bite as you pressed down. It really felt like you could bring the car to a composed stop in a very big hurry. Nice upgrade over the 2.

DCT: This is a tougher comparison, as my 235 has the MT, but I have to admit...man this thing shifts fast and precise. In the most aggressive setting, it just pops through the gears, and it is quite nice to feel that from the driver's seat. There is also a nice little blip in the throttle when you are slowing down and in the most aggressive setting - which wasn't present in my DCT-equipped 135 from 2010. I was pleasantly surprised overall and this is one option I would definitely consider after getting some time with it.

Suspension: Far and away my biggest gripe with the 235 - aka the "squishy" moniker than i am now mocked with by my buddies. The M4...ummm...doesn't suffer from a similar problem. It was nice and stiff, and felt very composed over both smooth and bumpy portions of the road. The test drive took me on flat, curvy, straight, highway, etc. - and there wasn't a situation in which the car didn't excel. The car just felt so planted - you could feel the weight of it, but at the same time, it felt tight - that's exactly how my buddy CHack described it, as he was in the car too. Very big difference here, and in a good way in my opinion. I was truly impressed with that - and if the M2 has a similar feel, it will be leaps and bounds over the 235.

Engine: this one has a bit of a caveat, that i mentioned above - I wasn't above to really push the car through each gear - I was able to go fast and feel how the car responded at speed (the grip is incredible by the way) but I am not 100% sure on the engine. It certainly sounds better in the cabin, but I am not sure if that is merely active sound shenanigans at work or not. Definitely felt faster than the 235, but how much I cannot say. From 1-5k there is a significant difference, but I wasn't floored by the engine. Perhaps it comes alive further in the rev range - I haven't done enough research to know where the max HP and Torque come in. One major difference is how quickly the S55 revs. It just whips through the range and before you know it, you're in 4th gear and approaching silly speeds. I was really impressed with that aspect of the engine response. The 235 truly felt lazy afterwards. Is it manic, in the same way that my dad's Z4MC is? No - but again, I wasn't able to really rev it out either - my guess is that there is quite a bit left in the 5K+ part of the range.

Throttle: Again, another big difference here - generally speaking, both N55s I have had seemed to lack the same throttle response of my N54 - but the S55 outshines either one by a long way in my opinion. I am sure I would drive around in the most aggressive modes 99% of the time because it is so easy to get what you're looking for out of the gas pedal - the engine responds very quickly to slight or large inputs - which is nice. It seems like I just have to floor the 235 now to get it to move with any urgency. That gets old after a while, and reminded of it once again after getting back in my 235.

Final Thoughts: Wow...what a car - I really really think I would like the M3 after that demonstration. I think the 3 looks better and weighs about the same, plus it's a little cheaper. The car sounded better, had a much more capable suspension, unbelievable grip, outstanding brakes, and the first version of the X55 engine that I liked right off the bat. And that was just up to 5K RPMs. In short, the car is leaps and bounds above the 235, as it should be, being nearly 25K dollars more expensive. But I would skip out on most of the options - just DCT, 19s, and likely LEDs and Alpine White...which still leaves me in a conundrum - the F80/82 are awesome - but are they $400 more a month over what I am already paying awesome? I am not sure of that. $200, yes. $400 or more...I don't think so. As a result, I am going to seriously start looking for someone who will deal closer to the 7% below MSRP like David Aviles - if I can find that, I think I am going to do it...but we will see.

More or less what I thought, although DCT was kind of boring for me. The 6MT in that car is excellent.

Here's my thought. I completely agree with you about the EPS and suspension. If (big if) we can get those 2 items on the M2, I'll trade the F80's practicality and power, for a more compact size and cheaper price on the M2. I know that tradeoff won't be for everyone, but that would be fine for me. There's definitely still a lot of info missing before I make my pick. Also can't forget about the weight of the M2, we shall see.

This new picture just absolutely does it for me on top of that:

[JRMorgan]

Originally Posted by pikcachu

3180

Seriously. I would pay that if it actually weighed that.


Looking over this whole thread and having priced out an M3 on the site, I really have lost my enthusiasm for this car.

I've usually been getting my cars fully optioned out. But when you consider what really matters at the end of the day I've realized that a car that drives the way you want is more important than little conveniences. What made that set in very quickly is test driving a F30. The 3 series is totally a luxury vehicle now. You really need to get the M car just to have an acceptable suspension anymore.

I priced out the M3 at $65000 base MT. That number is in the realm of what this M2 will cost with options.

The M3 comes with everything you need. Navigation and phone integration is already priced in. The executive package is purely convenience.

The car has all the carbon fiber parts, and has the bespoke engine.The M2 may or may not have all the carbon fiber stuff and definitely won't have the "S" engine. And it's not out. And most off will not offer that weight advantage which would be its reason to exist.

If indeed it did come in at 3200 lbs no question I would go for the M2, given how unlikely that is, there isn't much of reason IMHO to wait for it. It's sort of sad, I really wanted to want this car.

[KevinM]

Many car enthusiasts who are interested in the M2 are not being driven by less expensive pricing vs. the M3/4 but rather want a smaller, lighter, more nimble car. I'd pay as much as a F8X if the driving experience is what I'm after. Granted, the F8X is a great car and if I don't wait for the M2 or am disappointed by it, that is what I will likely add.

I'm thinking what I really want is an M2 CSL, but who knows if/when that will happen (one can hope).

BMW always seems to put approximate $10K between cars that people may co-shop (in this case, the M235i and the M4), so I"m expecting a base of about $55K and a loaded version to cost $65K, or about the cost of a stripper F8X. Of course people are getting pretty good deals on the F8X even now and this will not occur with the M2 until the furor dies down, so the F8X will probably be the better value at first.

[Vintage]

I will go for a lightly optioned M3 before I pay $60k for a M2.

[Bemo]

Originally Posted by Vintage

I will go for a lightly optioned M3 before I pay $60k for a M2.

If that's the choice we end up with, absolutely. At least we'll end up with better technology, overall, and a "bespoke" engine.

[G-Mann]

The performance numbers and pricing will be interesting to find out. I'd like to get a base M2 with the tech pkg for around 55k. I'm afraid 55k will be the starting price and 65k equipped.

50+k and stripper should not even be in the same conversation.

[Mark's M]

Originally Posted by W///

More or less what I thought, although DCT was kind of boring for me. The 6MT in that car is excellent.

Here's my thought. I completely agree with you about the EPS and suspension. If (big if) we can get those 2 items on the M2, I'll trade the F80's practicality and power, for a more compact size and cheaper price on the M2. I know that tradeoff won't be for everyone, but that would be fine for me. There's definitely still a lot of info missing before I make my pick. Also can't forget about the weight of the M2, we shall see.

Wow, lots of people down on the M2 all of a sudden and for what...an unknown price point, unknown weight, unknown parts-bin raiding from big brother? Pretty sure this car is gonna knock more than a few competitors out of the park and there shouldn't be any worries about the basic underpinnings being basic M3/4 sourced, including the EPS tuning. And like you said....there's that picture. And what a picture it is!!!

[dmboone25]

Originally Posted by Mark's M

Wow, lots of people down on the M2 all of a sudden and for what...an unknown price point, unknown weight, unknown parts-bin raiding from big brother? Pretty sure this car is gonna knock more than a few competitors out of the park and there shouldn't be any worries about the basic underpinnings being basic M3/4 sourced, including the EPS tuning. And like you said....there's that picture. And what a picture it is!!!

I'm definitely still interested in the M2 - no matter what, it is along the lines of the "right" sort of size and price point, if it comes in at the lower end of the 50k range.

I am almost wondering if it makes sense for me to try an M3 soon, with the additional option of trying the M2 right at the end of its respective life cycle - what could be better really ?

[hans007]

i've sat in a friends f80 m3.

honestly the engine seemed less smooth than say a 535 or something like that. the suspension though was very much perfect. he had the 18" rims on his f80, and i think that would be fine too as i'm sure its got a little more compliance over say rough pavement.

like, if bmw offered a m235 or even a 228 with the m3/m4 suspension well , i'd be happy.