[overcoil]

Originally Posted by Sportstick

The goal is to speed up the rotation in anticipation of the lower gear about to be selected to match engine to trans speed. The throttle blip is done while in neutral with foot off the clutch. The greater the difference in those rotation speeds, the more stress on synchos, driveline, and it causes that unpleasant surge for the occupants when the lower gear is engaged.

So what is the purpose of releasing the clutch pedal in neutral when doing a heel and toe ? That second declutch I thought was to match rotating masses since in anger it's easy to have way to many revs but with the second declutch in neutral still being able to provide that extra 1000 or so rpm to match the ratio for the one lower gear your about to enter.

the excerpt below is from COMPETITION DRIVING Alain Prost with Pierre_Francois Rousselot.

[grocerylist]

Originally Posted by Zyzzthetic

Hey, so the M240i is my first manual car ever and I've been driving her since October. So I'm a noob!!

Is downshifting bad on the engine? I keep finding varying answers on the internet regarding this topic. I always seem to downshift when I'm slowing down and using it as braking. I usually only downshift when the current gear is 1800-2400 RM.

Is this damaging in the long run?

I wouldn't downshift and engine brake to slow your car down. Your brakes are much cheaper than a new clutch.

[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by ScottSinger

So what is the purpose of releasing the clutch pedal in neutral when doing a heel and toe ? That second declutch I thought was to match rotating masses since in anger it's easy to have way to many revs but with the second declutch in neutral still being able to provide that extra 1000 or so rpm to match the ratio for the one lower gear your about to enter.

the excerpt below is from COMPETITION DRIVING Alain Prost with Pierre_Francois Rousselot.

This guy is a lot smarter than am I.

[Moflow]

Originally Posted by ScottSinger

So what is the purpose of releasing the clutch pedal in neutral when doing a heel and toe ? That second declutch I thought was to match rotating masses since in anger it's easy to have way to many revs but with the second declutch in neutral still being able to provide that extra 1000 or so rpm to match the ratio for the one lower gear your about to enter.

the excerpt below is from COMPETITION DRIVING Alain Prost with Pierre_Francois Rousselot.

My understanding is that rev matching WITHOUT the double clutch matches your engine/flywheel speed to the wheel speed needed, whereas WITH double clutching, you’re matching engine, flywheel and much of the transmission to the wheel speed needed.

[overcoil]

Originally Posted by Sportstick

This guy is a lot smarter than am I.

my add is bad, I had trouble deducing what he was saying. I think he was saying double declutching for input-shaft to match engine speed.

Watch this video particularly around the 23 second mark does he not do two clutch pumps on the single downshift ? ( I think it's done to save the synchromesh )

[Zyzzthetic]

Originally Posted by ScottSinger

my add is bad, I had trouble deducing what he was saying. I think he was saying double declutching for input-shaft to match engine speed.

Watch this video particularly around the 23 second mark does he not do two clutch pumps on the single downshift ? ( I think it's done to save the synchromesh )

Damn is he whipping an NSX?

[overcoil]

Originally Posted by Zyzzthetic

Damn is he whipping an NSX?

Your not familiar with Ayrton Senna ?

[Zyzzthetic]

Originally Posted by ScottSinger

Your not familiar with Ayrton Senna ?

Not really to be honest, but I've heard the McLaren Senna was named after him because he was a legendary driver.

Edit:
Welp, just googled him and he passed away the year I was born.

I'm too young ._.

[harma24]

Originally Posted by Zyzzthetic

Not really to be honest, but I've heard the McLaren Senna was named after him because he was a legendary driver.

Edit:
Welp, just googled him and he passed away the year I was born.

I'm too young ._.

[overcoil]

Originally Posted by Zyzzthetic

Not really to be honest, but I've heard the McLaren Senna was named after him because he was a legendary driver.

Edit:
Welp, just googled him and he passed away the year I was born.

I'm too young ._.

I don’t want to tell u how he compared to other open wheel road course drivers...but like an artist it’s worth watching him pilot a car because he consistently drove damn whacked out bonkers crazy fast... dangerously on the edge of car control.

There is also Henri Toivonen -

Who knows if getting killed somehow cements your reputation...but Senna and a few others had abilities that were legendary.

[Zyzzthetic]

Originally Posted by harma24

Can't expect everybody to know everything.

I just recently got into F1 so I've been hearing his name here and there.

[Zyzzthetic]

Originally Posted by ScottSinger

I don’t want to tell u how he compared to other open wheel road course drivers...but like an artist it’s worth watching him pilot a car because he consistently drove damn whacked out bonkers crazy fast... dangerously on the edge of car control.

There is also Henri Toivonen -

Who knows if getting killed somehow cements your reputation...but Senna and a few others had abilities that were legendary.

Wow, thanks for this.

These clips are epic, I will defs look into him more m8.

[harma24]

Originally Posted by Zyzzthetic

Can't expect everybody to know everything.

I just recently got into F1 so I've been hearing his name here and there.

All good. Senna was something different though: http://www.ayrton-senna.net/the-stor...e-moving-wall/

Originally Posted by ScottSinger

There is also Henri Toivonen.

The people lining the track at those rally events are just nuts!

[Moflow]

I'm sorry at risk of taking us totally off topic, i've gotta post one more old race car video. Because BMW.

[Zyzzthetic]

Originally Posted by Moflow

I'm sorry at risk of taking us totally off topic, i've gotta post one more old race car video. Because BMW.

Holy crap, he was literally taking off like an airplane!!

Those older cars really were go karts

[morriscat]

Originally Posted by Zyzzthetic

I always seem to downshift when I'm slowing down and using it as braking.

It's not super bad, but you're not doing your car any favors by doing it either. You're just moving wear and tear from your brakes (which are cheap) to your engine and transmission (which are expensive).

On the track this is a good idea because it helps keep your brakes cool so you don't cook them over the course of a lap or two, so the extra wear on the engine is worth it.

On the road there's no real benefit to this. Whatever money you save on brakes you're going to spend many times over eventually on driveline components.

[dradernh]

Originally Posted by Zyzzthetic

I always seem to downshift when I'm slowing down and using it as braking.

This is incorrect. It's not to do with wear and tear, but instead maintaining the desired balance of the car in braking zones so that the car can be turned-in at its maximum possible speed. Using the brakes alone enables the driver to smoothly do that.

The only way to "cook" the brakes over a lap or two is to just beat the tar out of them using OEM pads and fluid. Even then it would take a heavy-braking track like the Glen and a remarkably poor braking technique to achieve that feat. The best way to take care of brakes on the track is to use them less.