[rams]

Originally Posted by Anthony235

but don't have false expectations or let people create them for you.

You mean, like someone saying "M235i is better than 228i", or e30 325is is better that e30 M3 because it has a bigger engine?

[uberspeed]

Originally Posted by BEM-S4

SCANS: M2 VS M235i, 228i, 1M and E30 M3 (Road & Track July 16) http://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1268894

Awesome, thanks!

[bimmerfile]

Originally Posted by BEM-S4

SCANS: M2 VS M235i, 228i, 1M and E30 M3 (Road & Track July 16) http://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1268894

Wow, hadn't seen that coming.
Who would have thought that, after extensive testing and driving, Road & Track would rate the 228i as the "better" Ultimate Driving Machine than either the M235i or M2.

And to think I "upgraded" my 2015 228xi M sport to a 2016 M235xi last year

[BEM-S4]

Originally Posted by bimmerfile

Wow, hadn't seen that coming.
Who would have thought that, after extensive testing and driving, Road & Track would rate the 228i as the "better" Ultimate Driving Machine than either the M235i or M2.

And to think I "upgraded" my 2015 228xi M sport to a 2016 M235xi last year

Yeah I was surprised too. Not saying that it's the case in this debate (228 vs235) but I don't make my living shaving tenths off my lap times. Try not to get too caught up in that as opposed to an enjoyable driving experience.

[BarryJI]

Several high-profile comparison reviews favored the 228i but in all fairness you cannot possibly make a stock-to-stock comparison. The 228 must have the THP to even begin to compete. The M235i is a great car "out of the box"; the 228 can be elevated to a remarkable degree.

[HeyMoe53]

Thanks for the article--an interesting read.

I've been weighing a 228 vs. a 235 for a while now; though, since I've been resisting my dealer's disappointing trade offer, I will probably end up selling my 128 privately, and end up with either a 230 or a 240.

I don't have to have the fastest car. I want to have a fun driving experience, any time I choose. That said, having driven both a 228 and a 235, at this point I'd tend to lean towards the 228.

The bonus is 34 MPG on a long highway trip, and $5,000 still in my bank account. I will admit that there are some things about the 235 that are intoxicating. I don't know if it is enough to make me cough up the extra money.

I have never faulted anyone on a car purchase, nor will I ever. We all get to pick what we want, and I tip my hat to everyone's choice. The article simply amplified what's been bouncing around in my head.

[Y0tsuya]

Originally Posted by BEM-S4

Yeah I was surprised too. Not saying that it's the case in this debate (228 vs235) but I don't make my living shaving tenths off my lap times. Try not to get too caught up in that as opposed to an enjoyable driving experience.

His biggest complaint I think is that he has to constantly ease off the gas on the M235i because it overpowers the tires, while he can keep the foot planted on the 228i since it doesn't have enough power to do that. OK... I guess.

What I don't get is his statement that the 228i requires extra shifts to keep the engine at torque peak, when the 228i and M235i has the same shape torque curve.

[bimmerfile]

Originally Posted by Y0tsuya

His biggest complaint I think is that he has to constantly ease off the gas on the M235i because it overpowers the tires, while he can keep the foot planted on the 228i since it doesn't have enough power to do that. OK... I guess.

What I don't get is his statement that the 228i requires extra shifts to keep the engine at torque peak, when the 228i and M235i has the same shape torque curve.

Having owned both, I can assure you that you do NOT have to keep the foot planted or that the 228i "doesn't have enough power". Both versions of the 2er will get you from zero to jail in a nanosecond (maybe 2 nanoseconds for the 228i).
Magazine car reviewers only have limited time in their hands-on tests, so I'm not sure they ever get to fully understand and/or appreciate the performance and handling characteristics of the vehicles they are reviewing.
For example, most of us coming from other vehicles to the 2er complained about the feel (or lack thereof) of the electric steering in the 2er. After a few weeks or months, I wouldn't have it any other way. Reviewers never stay long enough with the 2er to ever get to that point and so they knock the 2er on that attribute.

[gpallem]

Interesting discussion. I actually wanted the 228i with the 6spd. There was a pretty melbourne red one close by so I went there knowing I was buying it.
Unfortunately, when test driving, I was put off by hanging revs when shifting--subtle thing, but it's there and I grew to hate it on my VW 2.0 turbo 6spd. The 228i had it a lot less, but it was still there. A number of dealer people went to drive it too to see what I was talking about and they said it was normal.
When I drove a 6spd m235 there were no hanging revs at all. Bought that one instead

[Merc for hire]

Originally Posted by gpallem

Interesting discussion. I actually wanted the 228i with the 6spd. There was a pretty melbourne red one close by so I went there knowing I was buying it.
Unfortunately, when test driving, I was put off by hanging revs when shifting--subtle thing, but it's there and I grew to hate it on my VW 2.0 turbo 6spd. The 228i had it a lot less, but it was still there. A number of dealer people went to drive it too to see what I was talking about and they said it was normal.
When I drove a 6spd m235 there were no hanging revs at all. Bought that one instead

Oh yes! Good mention! I had my 228i for 8 month and I noticed the same thing. It was super annoying. M235i is both faster to rev and faster to drop.

[BarryJI]

Yes, I think the 8AT suits the 228 a bit better. I've driven MTs all my life but this is one hell of a transmission. It's always in the torque sweet spot and it powers through the shifts under load with no hesitation.

[krhodes1]

Reading that linked R&T review, I really have to wonder how much of the difference in steering feel is due to variable steering that is part and parcel of the M235i, but not on a plain M-Sport 228i. Seems like that HAS to rob some feel, maybe more so than the extra weight in the nose. Though ultimately, I have zero complaints about my street-driven M235i's steering, and infinitely prefer it to the leaden tiller in my 328i wagon.

I wish BMW had seen fit to offer a 235i without the active suspension and steering. Though what I really wish is that you could get a 228i decently equipped without the stupid headroom robbing sunroof! Because THAT is what I would have bought. Would it KILL them to make the sunroof a separate option instead of bundling it with the Premium Package? Or at least offer the $0 delete option like on the M235i? Though I suppose they are smart, in that they got an extra $5K out of me to get rid of the hole in the roof.

But I also agree with those who say the M2 should have been a four rather than a six.

[Anderw]

all of this arguing and I'm over waking up in the middle of the night asking myself if it should have been a competition Package e90 m3 instead of my m235i

BOTH 228/M235 are great can't go wrong with either no need to fight its Friday

[caycep]

It's a great confidence booster, from the same author(s) that totally trashed the 228i and the m235xi before....

[mcompact]

As I always say, buy what makes you smile- neither car is a bad choice. I found an immaculate 2014 CPO M235i with every option save the Helen Keller(Driver Assistance) package; it was just off lease and I paid less than what a new 228i with THP and Lighting Package would have cost. It's also going to serve as my HPDE instructor car so I wanted something that was seriously quick- I was tired of getting Carpal Tunnel Syndrome from giving point-bys in my ti...

[fancyfl1ght]

Originally Posted by bozman9

ARgh, so torn right now. There are 2 very similar cars on the same lot - 228i and m235i. Both convertible, xdrive, mineral gray, coral red interior. Exactly what I'm looking for. Both have the same upgrades (technology package, drive assistance, cold weather). The 235 has the HK included. Otherwise, the 228 is spec'd with enough extras to be similar.

Price difference is only about $5500 MSRP. Any ideas if I would be able to get a better "deal" %-wise on the 228 vs m235 or does it really depend on region, dealer inventory, etc? I.e. is out the door price closer to 4k? And are the comparative residuals going to be higher for the 235 in 3 years? I've been checking the pricing forums and it always seems like people get way more below invoice on the m235 sales.

Before, it seemed like they were so far apart in price, but now that I've found such a similar configuration, it doesn't seem like much to bridge the gap to m235. I've driven both - they are both amazing. I was not able to discern the difference in the 228 being lighter and more balanced vs the 235, as many have noted, nor do I intend to ever track the car. The sound and power of the 235 is intoxicating, but I don't think I could ever really utilize a fraction of it on the street. I think I would rather be blasting the 228 vs limping in a 235, if the end result is I'm going the same speed (hope that makes sense).

Part of the reason why I am ditching my Audi (2015 A6, 3.0T prestige) is that the upper limit is too high. The supercharged V6 is so damn fast, most of the time I feel like I am barely driving it. In order to "push" the car, I would be going dangerous speeds, in order to feel the capabilities of the car, at low or higher speed roads. Net result = I don't really have fun in it anymore, despite it being a magnificent car.

I think the m235 had a lot more low end torque, so this may not be the case there. I do know, however, my wife hated it every time I pushed it a little, but was fine doing the same in the 228, even though we were actually going similar speeds. I think the massive torque of the 235 made it feel to her like we were driving recklessly, even though it wasn't the case. The 228 just felt fast and fun.

Comparison link with the 2 cars:
http://www.bmwofridgefield.com/new-i...1dc27847a40798

Anyway, I think I've made up my mind (228), just wanted to walk through my thought process in case it is helpful to anyone else reading that is trying to make the same decision.

Bozman

I bought my f22 bmw 228i based on the e30 m3. I also requested no options, except for lights and an automatic (i know heresey! but its for Wife Acceptance Factor, not my choice of course). I have also owned an m-sport 135i with an incredibly powerful N55 turbocharged inline 6 and a DCT 7 speed transmission. Really too powerful and too fast, and drove it 2/10th most of the time.

In retrospect, the f22 228i is a revival in modern form to the BMW DNA inherent in the e30 m3. It is unfortunate that the f22 is about 1000lbs more than the e30, but such is the progress of safety and emission contol.

Aside from pure marketing genius on BMW's part, it is very difficult to find a true M car today with all the stickers being placed all over so called m cars.

And the irony here is that a car that purports to be an ordinary garden variety f22 228i, could be indeed a real m car. . . .and the car that has m stickers all over it. . .I'm not sure what you can call that. . .

The 235i is very, very, very, expensive in today's dollars. If leasing the comparison is meaningless. Buying is always better than leasing. Always. Wall street trader tell me this all the time, so don't tell me about having extra money to invest because of lower monthly payments.

At about 30K barebones, the 228i is priced for purchasing. Especially for a depreciating asset that will breakdown and may be totalled by you or someone else.

[Rayscott]

I am going to my local BMW dealer on friday to test drive a new 2016 228i. They have 4 in stock and 2 of them are Mineral grey with oyster interior in one and oyster black in the other. My first choice was Estoril blue/oyster but Mineral grey was my next choice. The pricing for the one with the oyster/black interior is 46,890 the other with oyster is 53,890. They do not list the packages or options so I'm guessing the 7K price differential means the more expensive one has more packages. The KBB fair price which I priced with most options less the Msport and THP was 46,086. That price is significantly lower than the pricier 228i so I wanted to get some advice as I am not a great car buyer. Thanks.

[BarryJI]

Originally Posted by Rayscott

I am going to my local BMW dealer on friday to test drive a new 2016 228i. They have 4 in stock and 2 of them are Mineral grey with oyster interior in one and oyster black in the other. My first choice was Estoril blue/oyster but Mineral grey was my next choice. The pricing for the one with the oyster/black interior is 46,890 the other with oyster is 53,890. They do not list the packages or options so I'm guessing the 7K price differential means the more expensive one has more packages. The KBB fair price which I priced with most options less the Msport and THP was 46,086. That price is significantly lower than the pricier 228i so I wanted to get some advice as I am not a great car buyer. Thanks.

If you want optimal handling in stock configuration, make sure you get the THP. If you want a lot of headroom for engine tuning, make sure you get the N20 engine and not the very similar but emissions-regulated N26. For me the THP was a deal-breaker. Without it, the car is a small luxury coupe; with it, it's a quick sports coupe.

You might also take a look at the available body style options; I like the more aggressive M-Sport styling. Finally, consider how important enhanced nav and tech packages are to you and whether you are prepared to put up with run-flat tires vs. the superb Michelin PSS summer performance tires you get with the THP. This, along with such things as heated steering wheel, etc. are decisions influenced by the climate you intend to drive in. You might also want the sports seats with programmable settings and bolsters; these are part of an expensive option package but they are way superior to non-sport seats. Both the stock and the advanced HK audio systems are mediocre so my advice is not to spring for the HK.

[Rayscott]

Originally Posted by BarryJI

If you want optimal handling in stock configuration, make sure you get the THP. If you want a lot of headroom for engine tuning, make sure you get the N20 engine and not the very similar but emissions-regulated N26. For me the THP was a deal-breaker. Without it, the car is a small luxury coupe; with it, it's a quick sports coupe.

You might also take a look at the available body style options; I like the more aggressive M-Sport styling. Finally, consider how important enhanced nav and tech packages are to you and whether you are prepared to put up with run-flat tires vs. the superb Michelin PSS summer performance tires you get with the THP. This, along with such things as heated steering wheel, etc. are decisions influenced by the climate you intend to drive in. You might also want the sports seats with programmable settings and bolsters; these are part of an expensive option package but they are way superior to non-sport seats. Both the stock and the advanced HK audio systems are mediocre so my advice is not to spring for the HK.

I thought sport seats were standard. I am 72 and the days of THP options and tuning are behind me. I just want a nice and sporty vehicle with a small back seat for the grandkids that my wife and I can enjoy in retirement while cruising around the beach area we live in. In other words I am an old fart. Thank you for your advice.

[BarryJI]

Originally Posted by Rayscott

I thought sport seats were standard. I am 72 and the days of THP options and tuning are behind me. I just want a nice and sporty vehicle with a small back seat for the grandkids that my wife and I can enjoy in retirement while cruising around the beach area we live in. In other words I am an old fart. Thank you for your advice.

I am getting up there but have a few years of teeth-rattling automobile setups left in me. The sports seats may well be stock by now; I don't think they were in my 2015 M-Sport. Good luck and keep us posted!

[Rayscott]

Originally Posted by BarryJI

I am getting up there but have a few years of teeth-rattling automobile setups left in me. The sports seats may well be stock by now; I don't think they were in my 2015 M-Sport. Good luck and keep us posted!

I just checked and the sport seats are standard. I am opting for more creature comforts as opposed to performance. I owned enough performance oriented cars now it is time to kick back but not too much. I ain't buying a boulevard cruiser.

[caycep]

yeah, one would think. BUT

-the glowing review in the latest R&T article has the M-sport but the smaller brakes, so I think it has the standard steering rack.

-a different, earlier review had the THP and they hated it.

So it could be that the standard rack and non-adaptive sport suspension may have some virtues to it