[jpg92515]

Hello all:

New to the forum. I have a 2016 m235xi. When it's driveable, I absolutely love the car.

Long story short: I drive in Long Island and NYC (sometimes), and I've had 14 flats in the 18 months since I have had the car. I've had one flat in the 10 years I was driving prior to that. I have tried to resolve the issues with BMW NA but they have officially told me they will not be assisting me.

I am not trying to get into too many issues here, but somewhere between Pirelli, BMW NA, and my dealership's sale to me of the car, I truly believe I (we) was (were) wronged as a customer (customers).

I am going to pursue legal action, because I simply cannot take it anymore, both financially and practically, since my car is always in need of some kind of repair, or I am too nervous to drive it anywhere. To the extent my action could be brought as a class, I believe there is strength in numbers.

I understand people may have differing opinions on lawsuits, and I would hope this thread does not turn political, or spin off in to something else.

Simply, this is a very serious post. I am a person who is simply at a loss for where else to turn.

I tried to search on here for similar experiences as mine, but did not find anything I believed to be truly on point. If you are as serious as I am, please send me a private message or an email. I look forward to hearing your thoughts/experiences.

Thanks

[pz619]

I think we're going to need more detail. Was the tire just flat as in no air but no damage? Nail in it? One wheel or all the wheels? Have you tried changing the tires?

Run flats typically can't be repaired so did you get 14 tire replacements in 18 months?

[bimmerfile]

Dude, you need to give us a bit more information.
I've had RFTs on my Z4, 128i, X1, 228i, and M235i and in all that time have had 1 flat because I ran over a nail.
RFTs don't go flat on their own - and certainly not 14 times in 18 months.
So what caused the flats?
And how do you think that this is BMW's fault???

[DanG]

BMW doesn't manufacture the tires. So I can't see how it is BMWs fault.

[Viffermike]

But it does manufacture -- or it at least commissions the manufacture by third parties -- of the wheels, which I have a sneaky suspicion is part of the OP's issue.

But I'll let the dude fill us in on details -- which we do need, OP. Crypticism won't get you anywhere, least of all a civil courtroom.

[msej449]

This isn't credible. And I don't mean that it hasn't genuinely happened to you. But I can tell you that as a member of a number of European and US M235i related forums I've never seen any inkling of this from any other posts. So I'm not surprised that BMW and Pirelli don't want to help.

To really prove your case you'll have to have kept all the damaged tyres. Or at least the last 8-10 once you started to suspect that this was a chronic problem.

Surely, you didn't just keep replacing the tyres with the same brand/model e.g. PZeros? It would be sensible to switch to a completely new brand/model of tyre all-round. Then if the problem persisted, you'd know that it wasn't the tyres.

You also don't say what the failure pattern is: is it the same wheel every time? fronts? backs? random? If it's the same wheel, then obviously, you may have a wheel problem. If it's always fronts / backs, then you may have a differential or drive problem.

You'd then move on to whether it's something to do with the wheels - perhaps a set of malformed castings. So the next step would be to swap wheels or borrow a set of wheels if you could.

Then if the problem persisted it is either something to do with the drivetrain setup or something to do with the environment you drive in. For example, almost every nail-in-the-tyre I've picked up has been not long after a trip to the municipal rubbish tip.

I think that you are going to have to have a really well-researched, systematic analysis if you hope to make a case. And I suspect that at this stage, you're probably too fed up to bother with what this would involve.

I'm not saying you're lying or overstating the problem, just that if you're to engage constructively with BMW/Pirelli you'll need some solid evidence.

Just to give some tyre background: The tyres that are fitted at the factory will be the very best quality you'll ever get i.e. the most stringent quality criteria are applied to OEM tyres. So for all four of your OEM tyres to fail is highly improbable. It might be that you have a bad batch fitted. It does happen. Sometimes the same happens with replacement tyres i.e. say you get two replacements from a bad batch that quickly fail again. But a bad OEM batch would stop failing once they were replaced. However failures at this rate across both OEM and replacements imply that there's a fundamental problem with the wheels, or your driving environment.

One thing I'd recommend is that you pay for a healthcheck on the car. You may feel that this is throwing good money after bad but I think it would be a good investment anyway. I would do this through a disinterested party i.e. don't be confrontational - just ask a reputable garage to check the car over and be realistic that you'll have to pay for this. I would have thought that any case you hope to build will need this anyway. And they may just find something that identifies the problem and can form the basis for a claim.

[jpg92515]

The flats have all occurred with tears in the side wall. They have not been cases of nails or other road debris. I'll be driving and next thing I know the low pressure light comes on and within a few minutes I'm flat.

I have continuously been using only factory/pirelli/BMW suggested Pirellis.

I understand BMW doesn't manufacture tires, which is what BMW continues to tell me. However, BMW selected the tires for the car, and my dealership sold me the car without an inkling of an explanation of just how horribly these tires would be able to withstand driving on pavement. To that end, I believe, as a customer, I have a right to expect to not go through 14 tires in 18 months. How can a product be THIS susceptible to rupture?

I have not preserved the tires, since I just allowed the people replacing them to recycle/discard them. I understand the issues in attempting to prove the exact cause of every single flat, since there are many variables. However, 14 flats in 18 months is preposterous.

[bimmerfile]

Originally Posted by jpg92515

The flats have all occurred with tears in the side wall. They have not been cases of nails or other road debris. I'll be driving and next thing I know the low pressure light comes on and within a few minutes I'm flat. ................................

.

Do you live/drive in an area with a lot of potholes?
BTW, are all the flats on one side or are they random to all 4 wheels?

[wdc330i]

Not sure if this is behind a pay wall, but lots of anecdotal issues with run flats noted here (many of the BMWs):
http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/n...ires/index.htm

I also had a flat in a run flat (with my E91). I used it as an opportunity to dump them in favor of some proper Michelin non-run flats.

[BEM-S4]

Originally Posted by Viffermike

But it does manufacture -- or it at least commissions the manufacture by third parties -- of the wheels, which I have a sneaky suspicion is part of the OP's issue.

But I'll let the dude fill us in on details -- which we do need, OP. Crypticism won't get you anywhere, least of all a civil courtroom.

The BMW wheels are indeed crap. And RFT do not help matters.

A wise man in your shoes may decide for more go and less show and downsize to a 17" wheel with non RFT for the crap roads OP must be driving on.

[jpg92515]

They have all been the front two tires, with the exception of the latest two. On this last occasion I had 4 tires all flat and had to replace all 4 at once. I've had my car at my dealer for almost 4 weeks at this point.

[petegtsv10]

Originally Posted by jpg92515

They have all been the front two tires, with the exception of the latest two. On this last occasion I had 4 tires all flat and had to replace all 4 at once. I've had my car at my dealer for almost 4 weeks at this point.

Considering the MILLIONS of miles involved in TireRack reviews, I'd conclude you either have a wheel problem or an ex-wife problem!!

[petegtsv10]

Originally Posted by BEM-S4

The BMW wheels are indeed crap. And RFT do not help matters.

A wise man in your shoes may decide for more go and less show and downsize to a 17" wheel with non RFT for the crap roads OP must be driving on.

Can you please expand upon your "indeed crap" comment. You have my curiosity perked.

[aozer]

had run flats for 9 months on my 228i, never had any issues. you got some shit luck man.

[3rdcoast228i]

From what I can tell the Pirelli's have had problems

I have the Bridgestone run flats and no problems.

[msej449]

You still haven't provided enough detail, especially if you intend to take legal action.

What are the exact tyre types that you've been fitting? Pirelli make at least five different types of just the PZero* line so just saying 'Pirelli' isn't enough. [*PZero / PZero Corsa / New PZero / PZero Rosso / PZero Nero / P7 / P7 Blue / P1 etc.]

What are the wheels that you are using? Your wheel type will be on your original order and you need to specify the size e.g. 7.7J x 18 ET xx

What has been the sequence of failures over time, and for each failed tyre, where was it located and what was the specific nature of the failure?

Don't succumb to the runflat predjudice. I think they're great and wouldn't switch to non-RFTs. Other people hate them and say they're useless. This is a rat-hole. Ignore whether they're RTFs or not in terms of documenting your problems and seeking redress.

I'm sympathetic. I don't think your dealer has been very effective. But I do think it's unfortunate that you've kept on replacing with the same tyre after each failure.

Personally? I suspect that the tyre type you're using is somehow ill-suited to a combination of your car and its environment. If most of the damage is sidewall tears, then this needs fairly forceful physical abrasion: generally from being run along a low, long angular obstacle such as a low wall, low concrete kerbs, rough road edges, wide cracks in the tarmac, elongated potholes etc. If this is the case, then as suggested, you may do better changing to a more robust wheel size and tyre type. I suspect that your dealer feels this is not really their problem and the logical end-point would be a new set of wheels and tyres better-suited to your road conditions: I think their view would be that the M235xi is a performance road car fitted with performance summer road tyres. xDrive doesn't make it an SUV and it isn't a crossover for use on gravel tracks etc. ANd if your local raods are just plain terrible, then that's not their problem. [I'm just being devil's advocate here]. Ideally, they would have found you a set of (perhaps used) winter tyres and wheels and fitted them to see if that solved the problem - but I don't see any dealer going to those sort of lengths for an individual customer.

I'd suggest that your money would be better spent on a set of narrower wheels and more robust tyres. Perhaps all-seasons. This will need you to go to a specialist wheel retailer for advice and I would understand if it felt like giving-in to stonewalling from BMW/Pirelli. And there'd be no guarantee that this would solve anything. But the $2500-$3500 it would cost would be a better investment than legal fees. It would still leave the door open to later action - if it worked, it would prove the premise that there was something wrong with the original spec' as supplied by BMW and that the dealer could easily have determined you had special requirements if they'd asked a few simple questions (although good luck with that).

[Paisano]

Why don't you ask for non-runflat tyres if this keeps on happening?

[msej449]

It's tricky, because the OPs problems may have nothing to do with them being runflats. If what they have fitted are simply too low-profile, then non-runflats will get damaged again just as much. And they'd have no 50kms leeway - they'd just be stuck on the road.

To the OP: Be aware there's a lot of criticism that runflats have an inferior ride and handling. Unfortunately, it's hard to be objective about just how much inferior they are, if at all. It's true that you'll see 20 posts saying the swap (to non-runflats) has been beneficial against one from someone going back to runflats from non. But it's hard to extrapolate this.

I'm biased because I've benefited from runflats. I have a 2-brick-high wall around a flower border. I scraped my front tyre against this and slightly damaged the sidewall (or so I thought). A day or two later it deflated while I was on the motorway going home but I got back OK and was able to drive to the dealer and get a new tyre the next day. A non-runflat would have had me by the side of the road faffing-round with an inflation kit or just stuck there waiting for a flatbed. And the deflation could have been more dramatic in a non-runflat.

[morphomeman]

OP states that he had 4 FLATS AT ONCE. The probability of this happening to anyone with any vehicle, tires, and wheels are infinitely small. Something is seriously wrong.
I live on the North Shore of Long Island and have had three flats in 2.5 years of ownership of my 235, all due to potholes. My wife has had no flats on her X3 in about the same period. I presume that this is traceable in part to the higher profile of her setup.
OP should contact BMW corporate directly. It is in their interest to resolve problems like this.

[Bill Kayen]

I too live on Long Island or should I say Pothole Island. New York City is even worse. Your problem here is clearly low profile tires. To be clear, you have extremely low profile tires. I am surprised this hasn't been a daily occurrence for you. I would never own a car here with such low profile tires. There is no leeway on these tires once you hit a pothole. The wheel acts like a sharp knife once you enter the pothole and voila, a slashed tire. This is why all my cars have high profile tires. At least I have some cushioning while entering the pothole. You have none. In the future, make sure your cars have high profile tires while living in pothole land. BMW is not to blame. Sorry.

[RoundelM3]

My wife's 2016 228i M-Sport convertible has the OEM Continental runflats and after 12,000 miles, we have had ZERO problems with flat tires. I've been running Continental DW non-runflats on my 2013 335i since December of 2014 and have had no flats either. Given that we live in an area with good roads and very few potholes, it's not surprising that we've not had issues. We do both have 18" wheels with 45- and 40-section tires, so that is another factor. If you're running 19" wheels with 30- or 35-section tires, that's probably where the issues are coming from, although having 4 flats all at once due to potholes doesn't seem feasible.

[bimmerfile]

OP should definitely stay away from lotteries and casinos..