[MrBallooKnot]

I hear (read) this statement but I'm not sure I get the controversy.

This has been discussed many times I'm sure. I've read many of the "pissing matches" and still don't get the fuss and I'm not trying to start anything.

I do understand branding and that an M2 is imminent. My question is more about why it's such why it the M235 seems so controversial.

Please be respectful. I just want to know why people get so fired up about it.

[Alpine F31]

[MrBallooKnot]

I'm not trolling. I'm just looking for a substantive answer.

[nachob]

Originally Posted by MrBallooKnot

I hear (read) this statement but I'm not sure I get the controversy.

This has been discussed many times I'm sure. I've read many of the "pissing matches" and still don't get the fuss and I'm not trying to start anything.

I do understand branding and that an M2 is imminent. My question is more about why it's such why it the M235 seems so controversial.

Please be respectful. I just want to know why people get so fired up about it.

Being utmost respectful, it really is tough question. Some M3 people say the 1M was not really an M car also, while some of us that picked the 1M after backing out of the E90 m3 did it because we consider it more M than the luxury models that they have become. Some people think that super luxury that goes fast is an M car. Some of us that are older were blown away by the M3, Camaro LS, Mustang Boss that were essentially club racing cars or race cars that should could drive on the street legally and semi practical. That was the formula that defined M for us. Those cars were were nice, comfortable but the focus was on performance and most of the comfort items didn't detract much from the its core mission which was to handle, stop and brake with great balance, feedback and control.

What made them even cooler was that aside from the 1 M badge in the rear, they looked like a regular E30 with a wing.

So the problem with the M235 is that it has more M badges than any other ///M car including a glowing M235i in the instrument cluster where a temperature gauge should go. All M cars have a temperature gauge. It has fake sound which I guess now has been made legit by the M3, M5 and all other new BMWs but still fake. M cars were about pushing technology for performance's sake. Most M motors were always some of the highest NA HP per liter motors of their time. this included alloy suspension bits which M235i does not have. It's heavy for its size. You also cannot order it with a cloth or alcantara interior which is superior for track duty. It doesn't have a limited slip diff like most cars. Actually, the M cars use a 100% full lock diff.

The brakes look nice on the M235i and work well but they are not the floating disk design that prevents heat transfer between hub and braking surface. The suspension on M235i is sadly soft and it's focus is comfort not performance. It does well despite it, but it's focus is clearly slanted to comfort where M cars of yore were slanted to performance. The NAV screen up high in line of sight is also a nod away from performance and something that many of us that take driving seriously don't want in the line of site. On the M235i racing version...they cut it out....for a reason! Most M cars have had great sound..the M235i while better than most new BMWs is also weak in that department.

So for me the issue was that the M235i was overbadged, oversold as an M car and 1M killer because it can post similar numbers but if you judge it by M car standards it falls very short. If you judge it by all other BMWs, it is great.

I read a great quote from Einstein...it goes something like: If you judge a fish by it's tree climbing abilities, it would be a failure. It is BMWs fault that said the M235i was tree climbing fish when in fact it's a really cool fish by other standards.

[1ChrisRuck]

I agree with Carlos Lago of Motor Trend and how he feels about BMW naming the car the M235i, "It's not a true "M" car "For the car to be called the M235i can be frustrating and confusing" but "It's also meaningless because the M235i is a good handling, good driving car" that's a lot of fun

I believe BMW decided to name the car M235i in order to keep in line with the competition and offer consumers what the competitors are offering. They believe they are giving us what they think we want.

Mercedes Benz offers AMG Sport models, NOT true hardcore AMG cars
Lexus offers F-Sport models, not true hardcore F cars
Cadillac offers V-Sport models, not true hardcore V cars

I think it's all about marketing

[BEAR-AvHistory]

Would have been better just to call it a 235 M-Sport & be done with it. On its model charts & website build-it pages they list the "real" M cars in a separate M car list.

Also the build plates are different. Regular BMW'S have a Bayerische Motoren Werke AG build plate & the "real" M cars have an M GmbH build plate.

FWIW my Cobra is not real but will out perform a real one & saved me about $1,500,000 out of pocket.

[1ChrisRuck]

Originally Posted by BEAR-AvHistory

saved me about $1,500,000 out of pocket.

Is that all? A mere pittance
You know I'm just joking, right

[Ramos]

The simple answer to your question is that it's not s real M car because BMW does not intend for it to be an M car.

Rather, it's the in between line
Like the poster above mentioned, everybody's doing it including Audi S, Mercedes AMG sport.

What people forget is that this in between category is nothing new to BMW (think M535, and various Is badged cars)

The only thing new is that they reverted to the Mxxx nomenclature and came up with. New marketing term (M performance) to better utilize the M branding.

Bottom line it was never intended as a full on M car, so I don't really get the controversy at all.

[Ramos]

Also, the differences are quite well established:

Regular lines

Add visual elements = M sport

Add M performance elements (brakes, suspension, tires, steering calibration, higher engine tune) = M performance

Add full on M suspension, full on M brakes, composite materials, CF roof, DCT option, quad exhaust, highest engine output and/or bespoke engine, factory electronic LSD, wider stance, flared fenders, unique body panels, more aggressive facials, rear diffuser = Full on M

[DSTR]

Originally Posted by MrBallooKnot

I hear (read) this statement but I'm not sure I get the controversy.

This has been discussed many times I'm sure. I've read many of the "pissing matches" and still don't get the fuss and I'm not trying to start anything.

I do understand branding and that an M2 is imminent. My question is more about why it's such why it the M235 seems so controversial.

Please be respectful. I just want to know why people get so fired up about it.

Do you like the car you own assuming you have an M235i etc. If so it does not matter at all. They named it -- call BMW

[Boneman]

Enjoy the car for what it is and have fun with it.

[horsepower_and_hounds]

Originally Posted by nachob

Being utmost respectful, it really is tough question. Some M3 people say the 1M was not really an M car also, while some of us that picked the 1M after backing out of the E90 m3 did it because we consider it more M than the luxury models that they have become. Some people think that super luxury that goes fast is an M car. Some of us that are older were blown away by the M3, Camaro LS, Mustang Boss that were essentially club racing cars or race cars that should could drive on the street legally and semi practical. That was the formula that defined M for us. Those cars were were nice, comfortable but the focus was on performance and most of the comfort items didn't detract much from the its core mission which was to handle, stop and brake with great balance, feedback and control.

What made them even cooler was that aside from the 1 M badge in the rear, they looked like a regular E30 with a wing.

So the problem with the M235 is that it has more M badges than any other ///M car including a glowing M235i in the instrument cluster where a temperature gauge should go. All M cars have a temperature gauge. It has fake sound which I guess now has been made legit by the M3, M5 and all other new BMWs but still fake. M cars were about pushing technology for performance's sake. Most M motors were always some of the highest NA HP per liter motors of their time. this included alloy suspension bits which M235i does not have. It's heavy for its size. You also cannot order it with a cloth or alcantara interior which is superior for track duty. It doesn't have a limited slip diff like most cars. Actually, the M cars use a 100% full lock diff.

The brakes look nice on the M235i and work well but they are not the floating disk design that prevents heat transfer between hub and braking surface. The suspension on M235i is sadly soft and it's focus is comfort not performance. It does well despite it, but it's focus is clearly slanted to comfort where M cars of yore were slanted to performance. The NAV screen up high in line of sight is also a nod away from performance and something that many of us that take driving seriously don't want in the line of site. On the M235i racing version...they cut it out....for a reason! Most M cars have had great sound..the M235i while better than most new BMWs is also weak in that department.

So for me the issue was that the M235i was overbadged, oversold as an M car and 1M killer because it can post similar numbers but if you judge it by M car standards it falls very short. If you judge it by all other BMWs, it is great.

I read a great quote from Einstein...it goes something like: If you judge a fish by it's tree climbing abilities, it would be a failure. It is BMWs fault that said the 1M was tree climbing fish when in fact it's a really cool fish by other standards.

nachob,

That was a great little piece. I own a 235 and love it. It is "MY" M car and do not care that much about all the M badges being there or not. Many people refer to it a a M2 or M car and i always correct them and call it a "tweener" or a "get by M" till the real one is released. I am adding M style parts to mine but will not add any M colors since there is plenty already.

Now never being a true M owner I do not have the feeling of being ripped off that BMW is applying to the 235 what other have paid so dearly for. So I apologize to those that look down on my tweener as I roll down the road with a smile on my face cause this is a M to me. This is the best ride I have ever owned and the performance is unmeasurable on my scale. And also the $ factor is in reach for my lower middle class ass.... A new true "M" is not

So I understand see where your coming from with your above statement and like the facts/comparisons you have aligned. And to the mass that keep going back and forth about this.....I agree it is not a M breed but a M performance and should be loved and enjoyed as such. These are all great cars....just shut up and drive

[todd hollander]

Originally Posted by Ramos

Also, the differences are quite well established:

Regular lines

Add visual elements = M sport

Add M performance elements (brakes, suspension, tires, steering calibration, higher engine tune) = M performance

Add full on M suspension, full on M brakes, composite materials, CF roof, DCT option, quad exhaust, highest engine output and/or bespoke engine, factory electronic LSD, wider stance, flared fenders, unique body panels, more aggressive facials, rear diffuser = Full on M

^^^^^^^
This is the clearest definition of the model line up I've eve seen. Perfect!

[Jackie Chiles]

M or not an M?

The answer does not matter to car enthusiasts.

But it will matter to badge enthusiasts. Or to marketing geeks.

The M235i is an excellent car. If I buy one, that pesky "M" will have zero/nada/nothing to do with it.

The people who believe fervently that the M235i is not an M risk significant damage to their egos if they buy an M2/3/4 and get trounced by a slightly better driver in a _235i.

Sorry.

[ABPReader]

.

[midwest 340xi 6sp]

Originally Posted by Ramos

Also, the differences are quite well established:

Regular lines

Add visual elements = M sport

Add M performance elements (brakes, suspension, tires, steering calibration, higher engine tune) = M performance

Add full on M suspension, full on M brakes, composite materials, CF roof, DCT option, quad exhaust, highest engine output and/or bespoke engine, factory electronic LSD, wider stance, flared fenders, unique body panels, more aggressive facials, rear diffuser = Full on M

Very close, but I think there are 3 segments (not 4)...

Regular Line: (for all the masses and the profit driver)

M performance: Visual elements + Some Performance (brakes, suspension, tires, steering calibration, higher engine tune)

Full M: Full on M suspension, full on M brakes, composite materials, CF roof, DCT option, quad exhaust, highest engine output and/or bespoke engine, factory electronic LSD, wider stance, flared fenders, unique body panels, more aggressive facials, rear diffuser

[DanG]

Originally Posted by Midwest M235i

Very close, but I think there are 3 segments (not 4)...

Regular Line: (for all the masses and the profit driver)

M performance: Visual elements + Some Performance (brakes, suspension, tires, steering calibration, higher engine tune)

Full M: Full on M suspension, full on M brakes, composite materials, CF roof, DCT option, quad exhaust, highest engine output and/or bespoke engine, factory electronic LSD, wider stance, flared fenders, unique body panels, more aggressive facials, rear diffuser

I agree with the prior post. There are four lines. Most M Sports models are mostly cosmetic changes. A good example is the 228i with M-Sport package. You have to add the track package to get it to an M Performance model.

[verbs]

Originally Posted by Ramos

Also, the differences are quite well established:

Regular lines

Add visual elements = M sport

Add M performance elements (brakes, suspension, tires, steering calibration, higher engine tune) = M performance

Add full on M suspension, full on M brakes, composite materials, CF roof, DCT option, quad exhaust, highest engine output and/or bespoke engine, factory electronic LSD, wider stance, flared fenders, unique body panels, more aggressive facials, rear diffuser = Full on M

M sport is a shade more than just visual elements (in the U.S. anyway). It was the only 335 car that came standard with rear tires wider than the puny 225's, and it also came with more performance oriented brake pads than non-m-sport 335i cars. The 335i m-sport also has better cooling compared to non-M models. It gets an (extra) auxiliary radiator and enhanced oil cooling system.

Also, the steering wheel in the 335i m-sport, while it did look nicer, it also feels a lot better than the normal steering wheel.

[BMW335iOn18s]

Originally Posted by nachob

Being utmost respectful, it really is tough question. Some M3 people say the 1M was not really an M car also, while some of us that picked the 1M after backing out of the E90 m3 did it because we consider it more M than the luxury models that they have become. Some people think that super luxury that goes fast is an M car. Some of us that are older were blown away by the M3, Camaro LS, Mustang Boss that were essentially club racing cars or race cars that should could drive on the street legally and semi practical. That was the formula that defined M for us. Those cars were were nice, comfortable but the focus was on performance and most of the comfort items didn't detract much from the its core mission which was to handle, stop and brake with great balance, feedback and control.

What made them even cooler was that aside from the 1 M badge in the rear, they looked like a regular E30 with a wing.

So the problem with the M235 is that it has more M badges than any other ///M car including a glowing M235i in the instrument cluster where a temperature gauge should go. All M cars have a temperature gauge. It has fake sound which I guess now has been made legit by the M3, M5 and all other new BMWs but still fake. M cars were about pushing technology for performance's sake. Most M motors were always some of the highest NA HP per liter motors of their time. this included alloy suspension bits which M235i does not have. It's heavy for its size. You also cannot order it with a cloth or alcantara interior which is superior for track duty. It doesn't have a limited slip diff like most cars. Actually, the M cars use a 100% full lock diff.

The brakes look nice on the M235i and work well but they are not the floating disk design that prevents heat transfer between hub and braking surface. The suspension on M235i is sadly soft and it's focus is comfort not performance. It does well despite it, but it's focus is clearly slanted to comfort where M cars of yore were slanted to performance. The NAV screen up high in line of sight is also a nod away from performance and something that many of us that take driving seriously don't want in the line of site. On the M235i racing version...they cut it out....for a reason! Most M cars have had great sound..the M235i while better than most new BMWs is also weak in that department.

So for me the issue was that the M235i was overbadged, oversold as an M car and 1M killer because it can post similar numbers but if you judge it by M car standards it falls very short. If you judge it by all other BMWs, it is great.

I read a great quote from Einstein...it goes something like: If you judge a fish by it's tree climbing abilities, it would be a failure. It is BMWs fault that said the 1M was tree climbing fish when in fact it's a really cool fish by other standards.

If you want to get rid of iDrive, you could always do this:

[nachob]

Originally Posted by ehagerty

nachob,

That was a great little piece. I own a 235 and love it. It is "MY" M car and do not care that much about all the M badges being there or not. Many people refer to it a a M2 or M car and i always correct them and call it a "tweener" or a "get by M" till the real one is released. I am adding M style parts to mine but will not add any M colors since there is plenty already.

Now never being a true M owner I do not have the feeling of being ripped off that BMW is applying to the 235 what other have paid so dearly for. So I apologize to those that look down on my tweener as I roll down the road with a smile on my face cause this is a M to me. This is the best ride I have ever owned and the performance is unmeasurable on my scale. And also the $ factor is in reach for my lower middle class ass.... A new true "M" is not

So I understand see where your coming from with your above statement and like the facts/comparisons you have aligned. And to the mass that keep going back and forth about this.....I agree it is not a M breed but a M performance and should be loved and enjoyed as such. These are all great cars....just shut up and drive

Thanks but for the record, I don't look down at the M235i at all. I was upset initially at how BMW represented it, then how they rolled it out in the US. I was very excited to replace my 1M that I lost with an M235i or M2 and had spec'd one on the European builder. I had it with alcantara interior and manual seats and was hoping I could get a version without the display since they showed one version on the Canadian site. Once it arrived, I had such high expectation that I was shocked that the amazing alcantara M interior was replaced with leatherette and that IDrive and power seats, folding mirrors, active sound, active suspension were all mandatory.

So the dissapointment for me was immense when I drove it and it was much quieter and softer and heavier than I felt it should be at the time. That was my bad, and directed at BMWUSA because in Europe you could order it without all that stuff (except idrive).

After the shock and dissapointment, I looked at everything else BMW offered and it was all lame for me. Then I realized that if you compare the 2 series, it is the best all around BMW for me and the closest to what made me a BMW fan. When I see a 2 series on the road, I'll give those guys a thumbs up sometimes because it's a great series and hoping to see what the M2 is like so I can compare them all. The M2, M235i, 228i M-Sport and still liking the M3 a bit too.

For the sake of honesty, if you accused me of looking down at BLoaded M3s with cameras, executive packages, automatics, heated steering wheels, etc.
Then maybe I would have to throw myself at the mercy of the court your honor!

[nachob]

Originally Posted by BMW335iOn18s

If you want to get rid of iDrive, you could always do this:

I tried that but the radio is tied in. You have to navigate with idrive to turn off the display, then it comes back on if you try to change a radio station, then you have to navigate to turn it off. I wish they made a standalone radio and allowed you to get rid of it or at the least place it lower like the E46 or the wife's GTI. The placement up high is bothersome to me...right or wrong, not the point, just bothers me, especially at night.

[BMW335iOn18s]

Originally Posted by nachob

I tried that but the radio is tied in. You have to navigate with idrive to turn off the display, then it comes back on if you try to change a radio station, then you have to navigate to turn it off. I wish they made a standalone radio and allowed you to get rid of it or at the least place it lower like the E46 or the wife's GTI. The placement up high is bothersome to me...right or wrong, not the point, just bothers me, especially at night.

The car I posted doesn't have iDrive. It has a standard head unit. Look again!