[w3rkn]

Originally Posted by SCOTT26

...

SCOTT..

I don't think BMW understands.. We can already buy FWD sedans. The reason people buy BMWs is because they are not.

BMW has become the General Motors of the past, offering EVERYTHING, but nothing with flavor.



BMW should never be FWD... it would be enough to ruin the brand.

[axztx]

Make RWD 2GC and i will beg BMW to take my money if 2 series goes FWD i will look somewhere else and not look back.

[John_01]

I just want to say its a nonsense gimmick to design a single chassis as rear wheel drive or front wheel drive as an option. Total nonsense. The most difficult issue is the weight distribution will need to be optimised for FWD traction, whereas RWD works with a more balanced weight distribution. Other issues with drive systems and suspension design are significant too.

Please just stick to one platform dedicated to a compact RWD car in the BMW tradition - How hard is that?

[jippii ensio]

FWD
FWD is lighter and quicker.
It is the main advantage that VAG has over BMW and the reason for VAG beating BMW in the compact end of the market.

[GuidoDoc]

Originally Posted by w3rkn

SCOTT..

I don't think BMW understands.. We can already buy FWD sedans. The reason people buy BMWs is because they are not.

BMW has become the General Motors of the past, offering EVERYTHING, but nothing with flavor.



BMW should never be FWD... it would be enough to ruin the brand.

Actually I think the opposite. The majority of BMW owners are not on this forum and are not knowledgable about their cars. I highly doubt they know or care whether their car is FWD or RWD, turbo 4 or NA 6cyl. In fact people don't even know the difference between a v6 and i6. Given that BMW will look to make cars that make them money. If the budget segment (1&2 series, although they aren't really that cheap) is more money making FWD and they can still make it have decent handling and feel then they will do it if it increases their profit margin.

One thing people here in the NE do know is if it is AWD. So it think that is a bigger purchase option, AWD or not regardless of fwd or RWD.

Those of us that care can only hope BMW still offers something that fits what we crave in the future.

[e46e92love]

Originally Posted by SCOTT26

Interesting update - UKL platform is a modular chassis and can be adapted/subtracted as FWD or RWD.

Full decision on the next 2 Series is not final yet (full decision will be taken by the end of the year) and can use the UKL chassis but can adapted for RWD. (BMW M are fighting for RWD because the M2 is apparently even more outstanding than the 1er M Coupe).

What the strategy aims to show is a split between the 1er and 2er, but vehicles that cannot compromise on space and versatility will be addressed via FWD namely the 1er , X1 , X2 and Active/Gran Tourers.

THIS is the 1er Sedan but the strategy involves a 2er Gran Coupe. So that compact entry lines will mirror the upper segments in the BMW portfolio.

The G chassis or 35Up (more info on 35Up platform) is too expensive to use for smaller compact cars and therefore starts with the 3er or in the case of the first entry model the G01 X3.

Wow....you guys at BMW have completely lost your way. When M has to fight for a a BMW to be RWD. Put the crack down and slowly step away from the pipe.....

This is like an ice cream company having fights about whether they should make ice cream.....wtf.

Cheers,
e46e92

[sparty744]

All in all fwd bmw sounds like .... "Non-alcoholic vodka". It has its taste (lol) but brings you no effect.
God damn, I understand that there are a lot of marketing and economical issues out there but bmw group sales keeps growing day after day so I bet they don't have a lack in profit to force them to go that "new" way.
Honestly, for last few years all new bmw models that were released seems to be created to ruin its core fans "true obsession with bmw".
I now that a lot of people might find it interesting and so on but nowadays most part of bmw models failing to its rivals. For example let's compare m5 agains rs7 dynamics or even gtr that costs the same. In my place (for example) I would never buy new x4 because I can buy new Toyota lc 200 and keep something 34k$ in cash on my pocket. (Yea yea it's a niche product and so on, but c'mon really are there so much people who can afford buying a brand new car for every "special" situation)
Back to business I just want to say that mostly today bmw sales feeling so good because of brand building that was made a long time ago but now it's affordable for a much bigger amount of people. Because when we think about a bmw in its best we mostly imagine "a bad boys drifting and slide turning hard on e46/e92 with insane exhaust sound". Because for me, it's silly to buy a bmw for a calm "regular person" bla bla bla
Cmon M division prove them and fight for glory. Because the only reason why "sad and dull dude" will buy a bmw, it is the feeling and idea that he will become an irrestible super driver and sexy macho right after our purchase. And the only "instrument" for this is (Chris Harris citate from video where he compared m5 to gtr) "no other car can do it" and the reason is RWD.
Yes, RWD is not about top time on a drag distance but it's about emotions. And emotions is the only reasons why you will buy a BMW.
P.S: A lot of words, sorry
Pps: at my place gtr worth almost the same with new furnished m3.
So what do you think, I would prefer to buy ? As a true fan - m3/m4 because of what ? Right! Those RWD emotions!

[bimmerbuff]

Originally Posted by Diver

If it is FWD the performance variants will most likely have all wheel drive.

For sure. But there should always be a small RWD coupe in the lineup for us enthusiasts. It's the core of the brand...the 2002 should be represented in a modern capacity always.

I know a lot of us here are seeing the obvious. UKL = FWD and the engineering work to make it RWD though possible is a drain on profitability and counter to the goals of UKL. Plus, it would mainly be done to satisfy a small group of people (us) who might not even buy the car.

However, there's something to be said for doing the "right thing" for your brand image and for the group of people that are passionate enough about the brand to complain about it. I like to believe that BMW knows this, hence why the 6MT lives on.

[John_01]

If the car is FWD with transverse engine and AWD option, it seems like a clone of VW golf / Audi TT / AMG A45 haldex style system. It doesn't really say much for product differentiation.

[clbmw]

While the compact hatchback and coupe remains RWD it will always have a huge advantage over the equivalent Golf, A3 and A class.

Once the RWD choice has gone what reason is there to not buy a Golf GTi or the forthcoming RS3?

[Diver]

Originally Posted by bimmerbuff

For sure. But there should always be a small RWD coupe in the lineup for us enthusiasts. It's the core of the brand...the 2002 should be represented in a modern capacity always.

I like to believe that BMW knows this, hence why the 6MT lives on.

I must believe in the 2002 as I drive a 135i. The 6MT will stay around in the smaller cars, but is said to be set for extinction in the next 5'er.

[SCOTT26]

I have gone over the reason what BMW are adding additional FWD vehicles in regards to sustaining MINI , Market demands and the progress of the customer that the days selling specifically for 10% market share for enthusiasts has long been dismissed by any manufacturer especially in the recent fragile economic climate. BMW need volume to sustain its independence and future.

If you want to know more then use the search button as I have mentioned it multiple times before.

[xxxHolic]

I'm so confused, I thought the whole point of the ///M cars were they were manual RWD cars...this makes no sense from an enthusiast standpoint. I just don't see diehard ///M aficionados jumping ship to FWD car.

[Wolf]

Originally Posted by SCOTT26

I have gone over the reason what BMW are adding additional FWD vehicles in regards to sustaining MINI , Market demands and the progress of the customer that the days selling specifically for 10% market share for enthusiasts has long been dismissed by any manufacturer especially in the recent fragile economic climate. BMW need volume to sustain its independence and future.

If you want to know more then use the search button as I have mentioned it multiple times before.

Scott do you remember the day when you said the 2er will never be FWD.. I remember this very well. Thank you for the lies you've been spraying around for the last couple of years. I know you are just an employee(s) working for BMW and you aren't exactly responsible for the boards decisions but heyy you are their marketing guy. I rarely do trust marketing guys...

[EMITTR]

Originally Posted by SCOTT26

Interesting update - UKL platform is a modular chassis and can be adapted/subtracted as FWD or RWD.

Full decision on the next 2 Series is not final yet (full decision will be taken by the end of the year) and can use the UKL chassis but can adapted for RWD. (BMW M are fighting for RWD because the M2 is apparently even more outstanding than the 1er M Coupe).

What the strategy aims to show is a split between the 1er and 2er, but vehicles that cannot compromise on space and versatility will be addressed via FWD namely the 1er , X1 , X2 and Active/Gran Tourers.

THIS is the 1er Sedan but the strategy involves a 2er Gran Coupe. So that compact entry lines will mirror the upper segments in the BMW portfolio.

The G chassis or 35Up (more info on 35Up platform) is too expensive to use for smaller compact cars and therefore starts with the 3er or in the case of the first entry model the G01 X3.

If BMW goes FWD they also need to relocate their factory to Japan and give up the ghost! Want to lose your customer base....do it and see.

[EMITTR]

Originally Posted by w3rkn

SCOTT..

I don't think BMW understands.. We can already buy FWD sedans. The reason people buy BMWs is because they are not.

BMW has become the General Motors of the past, offering EVERYTHING, but nothing with flavor.



BMW should never be FWD... it would be enough to ruin the brand.

+1. Absolutely!!!!

[hoppy6698]

Originally Posted by SCOTT26

I have gone over the reason what BMW are adding additional FWD vehicles in regards to sustaining MINI , Market demands and the progress of the customer that the days selling specifically for 10% market share for enthusiasts has long been dismissed by any manufacturer especially in the recent fragile economic climate. BMW need volume to sustain its independence and future.

If you want to know more then use the search button as I have mentioned it multiple times before.

This and the new fuel efficiency standards being pressed from all sectors of the globe are causing manufacturers to take hard looks at how to increase their overall fuel EPA ratings. BMW can only make a RWD so fuel efficient. At some point, they need to change the formula. Thankfully, they are only discussing introducing this into the smaller ranges which are primarily focused at urban dwellers, not enthusiasts.

I may not be a fan of FWD, but I am a fan of a manufacturer doing what it can to preserve the true enthusiast vehicles that they do produce. In this case, their larger vehicles and Rolls-Royce (since all vehicles are tallied together to produce the overall EPA rating for a manufacturer).

Like others have mentioned though, I wouldn't choose to buy a BMW with FWD (its not their specialty). Other manufacturers have more experience and a longer reputation of working with FWD to make magic.

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by hoppy6698

Like others have mentioned though, I wouldn't choose to buy a BMW with FWD (its not their specialty). Other manufacturers have more experience and a longer reputation of working with FWD to make magic.

MINI products are among the best handling front wheel drive vehicles out there.

I still would not be likely to buy a FWD BMW though. The reason is, there are some great vehicles from non-luxury brands that may offer the same or better performance. So for the enthusiast who places less value on the plushness and exclusivity of the car, the price premium becomes hard to justify. Well, that excludes the high end performance variants for now, which are AWD rather than FWD - cars like the CLA45 and the upcoming RS3. But as I said earlier, a Golf R400 or Focus RS has the potential to change that. I realize these are hatchbacks - no sedans are planned - and they are not even a good bet for US sale. Not to mention they won't exactly be cheap themselves. But give it another generation and we might see more entries and some price erosion. If ultra high performance AWD cars on FWD chassis become the hot new ticket, expect a boom in these segments.

[xxxHolic]

Aren't some driver's complaints about the current crop of AWD drive cars are the biased towards being more FWD oriented and only cars only distribute power based upon algorithms of when it thinks the power needs to be shifted? So its like most driver's are already driving a variant of a FWD drive cars....

[bimmerbuff]

Originally Posted by SCOTT26

I have gone over the reason what BMW are adding additional FWD vehicles in regards to sustaining MINI , Market demands and the progress of the customer that the days selling specifically for 10% market share for enthusiasts has long been dismissed by any manufacturer especially in the recent fragile economic climate. BMW need volume to sustain its independence and future.

If you want to know more then use the search button as I have mentioned it multiple times before.

I think we all understand that cars have to be sold in volume to pay the bills and keep the lights on. Plus we know many people looking at a BMW today do so mainly for the name, reputation, status, and luxury options available, not so much for the performance, track handling, driving dynamics, etc.

For us in the 10% though, we see: "Oh, the next 2 series is AWD/FWD. Meh. I'd get a 3 or 4 but those are so big now. Don't they sell something smaller with RWD? Oh, not anymore? Hmm. I guess I have to shop other brands now." Our only consolation is that many other manufacturers have also jumped on to the FWD train (VW/Audi, MB, etc.). We know FWD isn't inherently bad as there are many great cars from many manufacturers with FWD (MINI, hatches from Ford, VW, etc.) and people are buying those cars.

We just like our small RWD BMWs so we are hoping that BMW bucks this trend for the next generation. We know it might be a pipe dream as it would only appease the engineers and enthusiasts and not the bean counters, but still.

[Qunadry]

Future FWD BMW's are exactly why I will keep my 135i until it becomes too expensive to maintain. By then I will probably be gumming my lunch in the dayroom and watching Matlock reruns on TV.

[dwvcfii]

Originally Posted by w3rkn

BMW has become the General Motors of the past, offering EVERYTHING, but nothing with flavor.

Interesting comparison. Also exactly what BMW wants.

I had a good relationship with the family that owned my local BMW dealership and one day in 2006 as I was wrapping up the sale of my E46 the son walked over to tell me that they had made the decision to sell the franchise.

Why? BMW corporate made clear to him that he needed to build a huge new BMW center because BMW's intent was to move into volume sales and to sell a vehicle for every market. He said to me that he didn't want to stay awake at night trying to figure out how many cars he would have to sell to pay for a $15M building, when the existing building worked just as well for him and was paid off. I couldn't blame him.

Now the company is owned by a local conglomerate, maintenance prices have doubled (now $150 hr) and BMW is well on the road to producing bland, generic vehicles that while performing better than the average domestic US vehicle are definitely not of the character that made the BMW brand famous.

I'll echo the other comment in this thread: I won't buy a FWD BMW, any more than I'd pay $45K for a 4 cylinder BMW. Sadly, enthusiasts are no longer on BMW's radar.