THE LARGEST BMW 2-SERIES FORUM ON THE PLANET
2Addicts
2Addicts
BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
2Addicts | BMW 2-Series forum BMW 2 Series (F22) Forum BMW 2 Series Coupe and Cabriolet (F22/F23) General Forum BMW M240i and 230i Announced With Latest Engines - B58 and B46 [Official Specs]

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      05-17-2016, 01:08 PM   #133
nike001
Captain
United_States
312
Rep
818
Posts

Drives: 2018 718 Cayman
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: US

iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ACZakka325i View Post
We are all in for the M2 because of the bespoke M-bits such as:

- M mirrors
- M seats
- M engine
- M hood bulge

It seems as though the M2 really has no place in the lineup any longer and speaks to more reason why the M2 will be more special and limited. From MSRP alone, it appears as though it can't be a money-maker for BMW.
Mirrors are just painted, seats are just different stitching & embroidery, and the engine is the same one that's been developed for the X4 M40i. Not saying any of that is a bad thing, it's still just BMW using existing parts to build a new car.

I agree with your statement though; to the extent that it's not the m2's problem it doesn't have a home, it's the M235i's fault. BMW made the existing M235i too good to be able to fit an M2 comfortably between the m235i and the M3/4.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adem1534 View Post
It makes perfect sense- BMW needs to compete with other brands, but can't output a high number of M2s with a good profit margin.

If anything, this will lead to a more exclusive and rare M2.

Could it really end up being the 1M lite in terms of production, too? Who knows. Perhaps not as limited, but still a very rare car.

Good news for everyone! I'm loving the news of the m240i
It's been said for a while now that the M2 will be a full production-run car. I'd expect that after this next production cycle that the M2's will be fairly easy to acquire. BMW did a good job with what they did for the M2: They made it rare, they made it a commodity, they made waiting lists, & they made enough hype about it that people were willing to pay over sticker for the first initial production cars. I'm sure you saw the M2 training pictures at Thermal a few weeks ago, surely that alone shows there's no actual shortage of M2's.
Appreciate 1
      05-17-2016, 01:10 PM   #134
aerostar
Major
746
Rep
1,246
Posts

Drives: 2018 F80
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: NJ

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adem1534 View Post
Wut? If anything you were the one who was aggressive, lol. And no I don't reply aggressively to any post that hints at attacking my 'precious baby'. You're being ridiculous. All I said were facts, notice how I never said my M2 would 'spank' an M240i x drive in a straight line?

No, I didn't. Because it wouldn't. But I guess since you called me a fanboy, all my comments are invalid. Lol, I need to rebrand myself, now no matter what I say I'm a fanboy. Even when I praise another car.
Lol... have you never read what you've posted around the M2 and 2 series forums?

But, okay!
Appreciate 0
      05-17-2016, 01:11 PM   #135
aerostar
Major
746
Rep
1,246
Posts

Drives: 2018 F80
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: NJ

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by nike001 View Post
Mirrors are just painted, seats are just different stitching & embroidery, and the engine is the same one that's been developed for the X4 M40i. Not saying any of that is a bad thing, it's still just BMW using existing parts to build a new car.

I agree with your statement though; to the extent that it's not the m2's problem it doesn't have a home, it's the M235i's fault. BMW made the existing M235i too good to be able to fit an M2 comfortably between the m235i and the M3/4.



It's been said for a while now that the M2 will be a full production-run car. I'd expect that after this next production cycle that the M2's will be fairly easy to acquire. BMW did a good job with what they did for the M2: They made it rare, they made it a commodity, they made waiting lists, & they made enough hype about it that people were willing to pay over sticker for the first initial production cars. I'm sure you saw the M2 training pictures at Thermal a few weeks ago, surely that alone shows there's no actual shortage of M2's.
Yep, it's been said that the M2 will be in no way a limited production run like the 1M.
Appreciate 0
      05-17-2016, 01:11 PM   #136
termigni
Lieutenant Colonel
termigni's Avatar
United_States
1080
Rep
1,761
Posts

Drives: S2000, MacanS, M4CS
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: NJ

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2018 BMW M2  [0.00]
I'm happy because in 3 years I'd have so many good used cars to choose from. m235i, m240i, m2, F80, F82, oh stop it BMW!
__________________
2020 ///M4 CS, Alpine White, DCT

2018 ///M2 LCI, Metallic Orange, 6MT, Exec Pkg, Apple.. Sold

Instagram: Tommys911
Appreciate 1
      05-17-2016, 01:15 PM   #137
bradleyland
TIM YOYO
United_States
1504
Rep
3,282
Posts

Drives: 2013 M3
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Vero Beach, FL

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by ACZakka325i View Post
We are all in for the M2 because of the bespoke M-bits such as:

- M mirrors
- M seats
- M engine
- M hood bulge

It seems as though the M2 really has no place in the lineup any longer and speaks to more reason why the M2 will be more special and limited. From MSRP alone, it appears as though it can't be a money-maker for BMW.
If that's what you think makes an M-car, just buy a 228i and buy some M-Performance upgrades. You'll save a mint, and be just as happy.

M-cars are defined by what you can't see, but can definitely feel.
__________________
His: 2019 R1250GS - Black
Hers: 2013 X3 28i - N20 Mineral Silver / Sand Beige / Premium, Tech
Past: 2013 ///M3 - Interlagos Blue Black M-DCT
Past: 2010 135i - TiAg Coral Red 6MT ///M-Sport
Appreciate 2
      05-17-2016, 01:19 PM   #138
Mywifes335
Major
Mywifes335's Avatar
United_States
1630
Rep
1,422
Posts

Drives: 2014 FBO M235i
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: DFW

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by nike001 View Post
Mirrors are just painted, seats are just different stitching & embroidery, and the engine is the same one that's been developed for the X4 M40i. Not saying any of that is a bad thing, it's still just BMW using existing parts to build a new car.

I agree with your statement though; to the extent that it's not the m2's problem it doesn't have a home, it's the M235i's fault. BMW made the existing M235i too good to be able to fit an M2 comfortably between the m235i and the M3/4.



It's been said for a while now that the M2 will be a full production-run car. I'd expect that after this next production cycle that the M2's will be fairly easy to acquire. BMW did a good job with what they did for the M2: They made it rare, they made it a commodity, they made waiting lists, & they made enough hype about it that people were willing to pay over sticker for the first initial production cars. I'm sure you saw the M2 training pictures at Thermal a few weeks ago, surely that alone shows there's no actual shortage of M2's.
Doesn't the M2 have standard LSD and also the DCT (Unavailable on the plebeian 2-series). Plus different suspension components and wider track?
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Axius View Post
Why the sad face, I fucking love sausage.
Appreciate 0
      05-17-2016, 01:24 PM   #139
bradleyland
TIM YOYO
United_States
1504
Rep
3,282
Posts

Drives: 2013 M3
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Vero Beach, FL

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adem1534 View Post
That's different, though. They are mass producing M4's at a much higher rate than the M2. Do you see what I'm saying? They can't produce that many M2s, so in order to compete and keep people from going outside of the brand, they have to offer a product that is more readily available.

The M4 will always be very, very available. The M2 is back ordered for 1.5-2 years at my dealer.

It's not an apples to apples comparison, because the production volume of the M4 is very high. There's also the M3, which is more practical.

You see how I'm drawing my conclusion?

No one is going to say 'DAMN! The wait list for the M4 is too long, I'm going to Audi or Mercedes.'

Why?

Because there's the M3, which is also highly produced and very practical.

And also, because the M4 wait isn't long at all...


The M240i will be MUCH easier to obtain, preventing people from ditching for another brand.

I don't think you caught my logic correctly, probably because I didn't explain it well enough.

If the produced a 4 series that matched the M4 (ONLY in power), then it's be ridiculous. There would be no need to do that. Because the M4 is easily available, and has a much higher profit margin than the M2 since it's not being squeezed into another production line (X1), and since they're produced at a greater rate.

Apples to Oranges comparison. BMW is doing what they're doing for a reason. They have a whole company of thousands of people making these decisions. There is clearly logic behind the decision.
I'm not sure I have any idea what you're saying, but what I have deciphered doesn't make a lot of sense.
__________________
His: 2019 R1250GS - Black
Hers: 2013 X3 28i - N20 Mineral Silver / Sand Beige / Premium, Tech
Past: 2013 ///M3 - Interlagos Blue Black M-DCT
Past: 2010 135i - TiAg Coral Red 6MT ///M-Sport
Appreciate 0
      05-17-2016, 01:24 PM   #140
XutvJet
Major General
5488
Rep
5,336
Posts

Drives: 2011 Cayman Base, 2016 M235
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Kansas City

iTrader: (-1)

The writing was on the wall that the B58 M240 was coming. I knew this when I ordered my M235 6MT back in December. I knew the B58 would be more powerful and "better". My biggest concern though was the fact that the B58 is largely an entirely new motor (the block is designed for both gasoline and diesel duty). I've never owned a BMW and what always kept me away were the expensive BMW horror stories, especially with the N54 motors. I was going to buy my M235 rather than lease and I keep my cars 4 to 6 years so I wanted some comfort that the thing would be somewhat reliable. The 2 series had the least amount of tech of the BMW models, was the right size, and the N55 had been around for quite a while and had the bugs worked out. The N55 in the M235 is more beefy as well (forged crank and rods) compared to the standard N55. The N55 is far more simple from a turbo plumbing standpoint than the N54 and parts overall are cheaper to buy. For example, the piezo-based fuel injectors on the N54 will set you back $220-300 vs the $40-50 for the N55 solenoid injectors.

Now the B58 comes out and it's quite technologically advanced, but as a BMW virgin, I was a bit spooked by considering BMW's (and most any automakers) luck with new motors. The B58 has a bunch of new stuff that scares me a bit since it's an entirely new motor and it almost feels like the N54 all over again meaning, awesome power and potential but lots of complexity. B58 highlights/concerns:

1) No more air to air intercooler. The B58 uses air to liquid intercooling and the unit is attached to the side of the motor and is incorporated into the intake manifold. This system uses a completely separate cooling system and mechanically driven coolant pump. Most anyone who's owned a BMW knows their history with cooling system components as they age.

2) No more mechanical thermostat. It's now an electrically driven device. See concern above.

3) The oil filter is buried deep on the side of the motor and not easily accessible. Not ideal for the DIYer like myself.

4) The turbo has it's own special cooling system. See bullet 1.

5) Rear mounted timing chain. Yikes! BMW's history with rear mounted timing chains isn't stellar. Take a look at the Audi and BMW forums about the horror stories of trying to fix busted rear mounted timing chains and/or tensioners. Hint: motors come out.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not bad mounting the B58 at all, I just have my concerns about the unknown long-term reliability of this new motor that's only been out for a year. Most guys lease so they're probably aren't worried.

As for the power, with turbo cars, does it really matter the stock power levels given how cheap it is to add power and exceed 400whp/twq in an N54, N55, and B58? These cars are already traction limited to some extent. If you must, add a $300-500 piggyback to your M235 and you're ahead of the M240 by a bit.
Appreciate 6
      05-17-2016, 01:27 PM   #141
StephGOD
KYHOMPB
StephGOD's Avatar
United_States
219
Rep
461
Posts

Drives: Only BMW's Ja
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Bay Area

iTrader: (6)

Garage List
2020 M2C  [0.00]
2017 M3 Comp  [0.00]
2011 135i  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by aerostar View Post
That tuned B58 is insane though. 450/450 with just a tune intake and meth? Yeesh.

Appreciate 1
      05-17-2016, 01:33 PM   #142
Adem1534
Colonel
Adem1534's Avatar
United_States
2241
Rep
2,370
Posts

Drives: '16 M2
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Alex from the United States

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by aerostar View Post
Lol... have you never read what you've posted around the M2 and 2 series forums?

But, okay!
People think I'm a fanboy since I say that the M2 is the perfect car for me, so be it. Never once have I said it's a better car than others, that's in your head because I praise my car alot. Big deal. You were the one who brought up 'spanking' the M2, then called me aggressive and defensive when I said you were factually wrong, so maybe we should just resort to calling everyone a fanboy. Lol
__________________

Soon.
Appreciate 0
      05-17-2016, 01:34 PM   #143
nike001
Captain
United_States
312
Rep
818
Posts

Drives: 2018 718 Cayman
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: US

iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mywifes335 View Post
Doesn't the M2 have standard LSD and also the DCT (Unavailable on the plebeian 2-series). Plus different suspension components and wider track?
I only brought up what I quoted. What I quoted was the person saying why he was in for an m2, not every aspect of why the M2 is better/different than a non-M 2er.
Appreciate 0
      05-17-2016, 01:37 PM   #144
aerostar
Major
746
Rep
1,246
Posts

Drives: 2018 F80
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: NJ

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by bradleyland View Post
I'm not sure I have any idea what you're saying, but what I have deciphered doesn't make a lot of sense.
To summarize any of his posts, read as follows, "M2 is the best car BMW has ever produced. It is made of diamonds and the seats are made of gold. All other cars are inferior for reasons XXX, M2 is superior because XXX. M2 is Jesus returned to Earth as a vehicle."
Appreciate 1
      05-17-2016, 01:38 PM   #145
aerostar
Major
746
Rep
1,246
Posts

Drives: 2018 F80
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: NJ

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adem1534 View Post
People think I'm a fanboy since I say that the M2 is the perfect car for me, so be it. Never once have I said it's a better car than others, that's in your head because I praise my car alot. Big deal. You were the one who brought up 'spanking' the M2, then called me aggressive and defensive when I said you were factually wrong, so maybe we should just resort to calling everyone a fanboy. Lol
People don't think you're a fanboy. You are the literal definition of one.

You also are way too uptight and defensive for an internet forum and I think you need to relax a little.
Appreciate 1
      05-17-2016, 01:39 PM   #146
XutvJet
Major General
5488
Rep
5,336
Posts

Drives: 2011 Cayman Base, 2016 M235
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Kansas City

iTrader: (-1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by StephGOD View Post

The 340 gets a pretty decent jump. It might not look like much visually, but that pretty much accounted for the distance ahead (which isn't as significant as you think considering the camera lens effect).

BMS is still working out the bugs with their B58 tunes. Last I read, many owners were reporting a bit more lag, lower 8AT shift rpms (Kind of odd. Torque management function perhaps?), random error codes, and some hesitation in the upper rpms. I'm sure BMS will get it figured out though.
Appreciate 0
      05-17-2016, 01:39 PM   #147
BEM-S4
Major General
BEM-S4's Avatar
United_States
4515
Rep
8,942
Posts

Drives: Dinan M235, Dinan Sport Wagon
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Philadelphia

iTrader: (5)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adem1534 View Post
People think I'm a fanboy since I say that the M2 is the perfect car for me, so be it
I am constantly amused by how many people talk nonsense on forums all day and ignore this very simple fact.

Forget the M2 vs 240 debate, FOR ME the 228 xDrive in the winter would be a better car than the M2 which I would have to leave at the bottom of my hill and walk home.
Appreciate 1
      05-17-2016, 01:40 PM   #148
pz619
Brigadier General
3276
Rep
3,254
Posts

Drives: F87 M2C 6MT, Tesla 3
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: San Diego

iTrader: (1)

Progress is good. Just get whatever you like based on the options available.

Honestly not really getting this M2 versus M240i debate. Drive both, make value decision, be happy.
Appreciate 0
      05-17-2016, 01:41 PM   #149
Adem1534
Colonel
Adem1534's Avatar
United_States
2241
Rep
2,370
Posts

Drives: '16 M2
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Alex from the United States

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by bradleyland View Post
I'm not sure I have any idea what you're saying, but what I have deciphered doesn't make a lot of sense.
I'd definitely someone not agreeing with me, but it definitely makes sense. Maybe I didn't explain it well enough, and it's all conjecture anyways.

M2 is harder to currently obtain than the M3/4. M4 is already easy to obtain. No reason to make a 4 series that is above the competition that is close to the M4, since the M4 is easy to currently obtain. There is less of a situation where people who want an M4 will leave because there isa 2 year wait and nothing exists right below it that BMW offers that outperforms the competition.

Therefore the M240i is possibly being used to prevent people from leaving the brand due to a wait list on the M2, while still performing as well or better than the outside competition.

For instance, if the M3/4 was very hard to obtain and BMW did not plan to produce as many right now, then people on the list might go to other brands if there isn't another model right below it that is very compelling. But the M3/4 isn't in that situation, hence why I think the near M4 level car does not exist for the F80/2.

That more clear?
__________________

Soon.
Appreciate 1
      05-17-2016, 01:45 PM   #150
Adem1534
Colonel
Adem1534's Avatar
United_States
2241
Rep
2,370
Posts

Drives: '16 M2
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Alex from the United States

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by aerostar View Post
To summarize any of his posts, read as follows, "M2 is the best car BMW has ever produced. It is made of diamonds and the seats are made of gold. All other cars are inferior for reasons XXX, M2 is superior because XXX. M2 is Jesus returned to Earth as a vehicle."
Quote:
Originally Posted by aerostar View Post
People don't think you're a fanboy. You are the literal definition of one.

You also are way too uptight and defensive for an internet forum and I think you need to relax a little.
Lol, what the hell are you talking about? THAT'S what you think my posts are like? Are you serious? Hahaha, I'm not even mad, that is downright asanine to think that's how I feel. Jesus Christ.

This is straight up in your head, bud. I've never said anything like that.

You're interpreting what I say at like X10000 times the amplitude. Chill out.

In fact, show me one post where I claim it to be the best car BMW has ever made, or better than the M3/4 as a full car, and I'll venmo you 20 bucks. Prove it! Lol
__________________

Soon.
Appreciate 0
      05-17-2016, 01:45 PM   #151
Tag
this is the way
Tag's Avatar
17927
Rep
8,459
Posts

Drives: N-1 starfighter
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Chicago

iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adem1534 View Post
That's different, though. They are mass producing M4's at a much higher rate than the M2. Do you see what I'm saying? They can't produce that many M2s, so in order to compete and keep people from going outside of the brand, they have to offer a product that is more readily available.

The M4 will always be very, very available. The M2 is back ordered for 1.5-2 years at my dealer.

It's not an apples to apples comparison, because the production volume of the M4 is very high. There's also the M3, which is more practical.

You see how I'm drawing my conclusion?

No one is going to say 'DAMN! The wait list for the M4 is too long, I'm going to Audi or Mercedes.'

Why?

Because there's the M3, which is also highly produced and very practical.

And also, because the M4 wait isn't long at all...


The M240i will be MUCH easier to obtain, preventing people from ditching for another brand.

I don't think you caught my logic correctly, probably because I didn't explain it well enough.

If the produced a 4 series that matched the M4 (ONLY in power), then it's be ridiculous. There would be no need to do that. Because the M4 is easily available, and has a much higher profit margin than the M2 since it's not being squeezed into another production line (X1), and since they're produced at a greater rate.

Apples to Oranges comparison. BMW is doing what they're doing for a reason. They have a whole company of thousands of people making these decisions. There is clearly logic behind the decision.

I don't get this logic. So you're saying that instead of BMW finding a way to produce more M2's they decided to fill this void (which BTW was created by them in the first place) by stepping on the M2's toes with the M240i? Everyone was initially wondering why the current M235i was still even being offered when the M2 came out, now with the M240i matching performance in acceleration that should make you ask "why" even more.
Appreciate 1
      05-17-2016, 01:50 PM   #152
Adem1534
Colonel
Adem1534's Avatar
United_States
2241
Rep
2,370
Posts

Drives: '16 M2
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Alex from the United States

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tag View Post
I don't get this logic. So you're saying that instead of BMW finding a way to produce more M2's they decided to fill this void (which BTW was created by them in the first place) by stepping on the M2's toes with the M240i? Everyone was initially wondering why the current M235i was still even being offered when the M2 came out, now with the M240i matching performance in acceleration that should make you ask "why" even more.
Sounds like you got the logic and don't agree.

Which is fine, it was just an idea I had, and it's all conjecture. I think it's because BMW might want a car that outperforms the competition that is readily available.

As to why they don't increase M2 production, I don't know, maybe to prevent it from carving into M3/4 sales?

Really, it was just an idea, I don't believe it to a great level myself, haha
__________________

Soon.
Appreciate 0
      05-17-2016, 01:50 PM   #153
aerostar
Major
746
Rep
1,246
Posts

Drives: 2018 F80
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: NJ

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tag View Post
I don't get this logic. So you're saying that instead of BMW finding a way to produce more M2's they decided to fill this void (which BTW was created by them in the first place) by stepping on the M2's toes with the M240i? Everyone was initially wondering why the current M235i was still even being offered when the M2 came out, now with the M240i matching performance in acceleration that should make you ask "why" even more.
More fanboy logic.
Appreciate 0
      05-17-2016, 01:52 PM   #154
Tag
this is the way
Tag's Avatar
17927
Rep
8,459
Posts

Drives: N-1 starfighter
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Chicago

iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adem1534 View Post
Sounds like you got the logic and don't agree.

Which is fine, it was just an idea I had, and it's all conjecture. I think it's because BMW might want a car that outperforms the competition that is readily available.

As to why they don't increase M2 production, I don't know, maybe to prevent it from carving into M3/4 sales?

Really, it was just an idea, I don't believe it to a great level myself, haha
Well I just got trolled good
Appreciate 1
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:58 PM.




2addicts
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST