[kdog26372]

Originally Posted by mcompact

Good points. I remember the first time someone told me-with a straight face-that they couldn't buy a RWD car because they needed something that they could drive in the rain. I honestly thought that they were joking.
They weren't. Incredible...

Not so incredible at all. It's not so much someone can't drive a car in rain, but if you live in an area the rains/snows for over 1/3 of the year then it definitely can make sense to have a car that is excellent in all but the worst conditions vs one that is only adequate for 1/3 of the year with precipitation while slightly more sporty for the other 2/3. I've had both in similar cars 135 and M235. If you tune your car and stick with the stock tires and RWD you will be fighting for traction on a daily basis, not so fun to me.

[midwest 340xi 6sp]

Yes, you can get by with snows and RWD...I've done it a couple of times in an E36 328, 2 different generation M3's and an E39 540i too.

After experiencing (in depth) awd with snows and rwd with snows? I drive an Xdrive with snows in the winter and PSS set-up for summer today.

Absolutely a personal preference thing.

Originally Posted by cmorris975@hotmail.com

Most of the cars I see around here are not AWD so I was thinking I would be OK with a RWD 228i but before I order the thing I am wondering if that is a bad move. I mean, all the 228i's at the dealer around here are xDrive ones, so I figure that is a clue. Will this thing just be too dangerous to drive with anything more than the littlest amount of snow on the ground? Could I get away with the RWD model and just put snow tires on in the winter?

Thanks,

Chris

[Liquidpaper]

Hey OP. I'm from Cleveland originally, so I know your struggle.

If you want RWD, you can do it in Cleveland winters with winter tires. Xdrive is better, but you will def be OK without it.

If you do get RWD, consider getting a mechanical limited slip differential (the MP LSD is fine). It will help with traction quite a bit.

[Benandluna]

I've seen too many cars lose traction in all wheel drive without the right tires. Though this is when going to the sierras, granted the free ways get plowed often and there are lots of elevation changes.

I've seen rwd and fwd experience the same damn loss of tract. I would go with the rwd and get some winter tires.

I am not sure how the Xdrive is on the two series but I've seen x3 and x5s struggle in snow as well. I guess I prefer 4 wheel drive for snow, or rwd with the right tires. Never been of fan of awd cars.

[petalmasher]

I guess that depnds on whether you want classic BMW sports car driving dynamics or you prefer an overpriced Subaru WRX with a BMW badge. I do fine in Spokane WA which is snowy and hilly with non studded snow tires.

[M235iguy]

Originally Posted by petalmasher

I guess that depnds on whether you want classic BMW sports car driving dynamics or you prefer an overpriced Subaru WRX with a BMW badge. I do fine in Spokane WA which is snowy and hilly with non studded snow tires.

You do realize a BMW costs more than a " overpriced WRX " right? I hope the response is in English.

[Benandluna]

Subi's are nice cars, but can't compare a bmw... Just drive it and see how it feels. If you think it feels too heavy or tight maybe drive somewhere else to a dealer which has a rwd. The think a lot comes down to preference. Both should hold up fine where you are.

[eflatminor]

Having grown up in Northeast Ohio, I would guess you're not going to drive a 2 series in serious snow anyway. I'm sure you have a four wheel drive pickup for that!

[petalmasher]

Originally Posted by M235iguy

You do realize a BMW costs more than a " overpriced WRX " right? I hope the response is in English.

It's English, I hope you understand. Great driving dynamics are the whole point of buying a BMW. If someone is willing to give up some of the driving experience for all wheel drive so they can have an appliance for driving in the snow without the hassle of changing tires twice a year, there are more economical appliances.

[nike001]

Originally Posted by michelito

My local dealer (Montreal, Quebec) only has automatic AWD for almost every model they keep in inventory.
Maybe because there's more profit for them this way?

Everyone's been brainwashed to think that they NEED awd or they won't be able to budge if it snows or rains.

Almost every dealer about halfway up the U.S. does the same thing. Nobody wants rwd except for us enthusiasts.

[mcompact]

Originally Posted by nike001

Everyone's been brainwashed to think that they NEED awd or they won't be able to budge if it snows or rains.

Almost every dealer about halfway up the U.S. does the same thing. Nobody wants rwd except for us enthusiasts.

I love AWD- on my X3 truck and Wrangler TJ.

[M235iguy]

Originally Posted by petalmasher

It's English, I hope you understand. Great driving dynamics are the whole point of buying a BMW. If someone is willing to give up some of the driving experience for all wheel drive so they can have an appliance for driving in the snow without the hassle of changing tires twice a year, there are more economical appliances.

The driving experience is great in my M235ix, infact its fantastic! its also faster than a rwd M235i 0-60 - IMO you're giving up a better driving experience.

[xantdieselx]

Originally Posted by M235iguy

The driving experience is great in my M235ix, infact its fantastic! its also faster than a rwd M235i 0-60 - IMO you're giving up a better driving experience.

Inevitably it becomes an AWD vs. RWD thread. With the RWD biased people saying "You'll be fine with snows." and AWD people saying "You're fine with All-Seasons."

Who's right? Both in a word. I love x-drive. I don't feel like I'm giving up anything over RWD. Better straight line performance, all weather traction no matter the weather, no worries about not having a spare tire (RFT's) and better resale in the Northeast.

With RWD you have a lighter, less expensive car with uncorrupted steering, better gas mileage and RWD dynamics.

You can't go wrong with either. That's why BMW sells both.

[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by xantdieselx

Inevitably it becomes an AWD vs. RWD thread. With the RWD biased people saying "You'll be fine with snows." and AWD people saying "You're fine with All-Seasons."

Who's right? Both in a word. I love x-drive. I don't feel like I'm giving up anything over RWD. Better straight line performance, all weather traction no matter the weather, no worries about not having a spare tire (RFT's) and better resale in the Northeast.

Without bias, this is not completely accurate and both statements are not equally true. Anyone, rwd or awd, is fine with snow tires. In winter, even awd is not fine with all seasons. A car has three functions....go, turn, stop. Awd, even with all seasons, helps with the the first one. You can have improved ability to go. But, the second or third, the ones which can help avoid injury/damage, are primarily dependent on the traction capability of the tires. For an avoidance maneuver on snow/ice, data shows all season tires are clearly inferior, no matter the drive system of the car.

[M235iguy]

Originally Posted by Sportstick

Without bias, this is not completely accurate and both statements are not equally true. Anyone, rwd or awd, is fine with snow tires. In winter, even awd is not fine with all seasons. A car has three functions....go, turn, stop. Awd, even with all seasons, helps with the the first one. You can have improved ability to go. But, the second or third, the ones which can help avoid injury/damage, are primarily dependent on the traction capability of the tires. For an avoidance maneuver on snow/ice, data shows all season tires are clearly inferior, no matter the drive system of the car.

If I wanted a slow rwd 228i I would have gone that route, I wanted the quickest 0-60 and better driving dynamics car with better traction in any weather car and thats why I got a M235ix.

[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by M235iguy

If I wanted a slow rwd 228i I would have gone that route, I wanted the quickest 0-60 and better driving dynamics car with better traction in any weather car and thats why I got a M235ix.

So happy for you....we each have our own preferences. But, for a new buyer, it is important to remain factual about how one achieves traction in winter climates. If you didn't install winter tires for snow conditions, you did fail to achieve at least one of your objectives, however, as tires, not cars, generate traction.

All serious points have been made to help the OP make his decision. Time to move on.

[M235iguy]

Originally Posted by Sportstick

So happy for you....we each have our own preferences. But, for a new buyer, it is important to remain factual about how one achieves traction in winter climates. If you didn't install winter tires for snow conditions, you did fail to achieve at least one of your objectives, however, as tires, not cars, generate traction.

All serious points have been made to help the OP make his decision. Time to move on.

Thats still your opinion, Which doesnt mean anything to me. I have driven in serious weather conditions in rwd and awd. I dont need snow tires with awd. All seasons work just fine. I know you keep throwing out that you can turn better coming up on a corner ect blah blah ..what you fail to realize is that in serious weather conditions you shouldnt be driving crazy and wild. With a a responsible pace you are getting better traction and I can see corners just fine in the day or night driving responsibly. Sorry you made the mistake of getting rwd ..which is what you're basically telling everyone who has awd. time for you to move on.

[Tpeterson]

Originally Posted by xantdieselx

Inevitably it becomes an AWD vs. RWD thread. With the RWD biased people saying "You'll be fine with snows." and AWD people saying "You're fine with All-Seasons."

It's also a left brain/right brain situation.The data and experience shows that RWD has a better power to weight ratio,less moving parts that inevitable will need maintenance and repair, and better driving dynamics near the performance limits. Put snow tires on one, and the traction and maneuverability are great.Someone who believes in AWD feels safer and and doesn't fear not being able to make forward progress or getting stuck and stranded. I think your choice depends on how your brain is wired.

[M235iguy]

Originally Posted by Tpeterson

It's also a left brain/right brain situation.The data and experience shows that RWD has a better power to weight ratio,less moving parts that inevitable will need maintenance and repair, and better driving dynamics near the performance limits. Put snow tires on one, and the traction and maneuverability are great.Someone who believes in AWD feels safer and and doesn't fear not being able to make forward progress or getting stuck and stranded. I think your choice depends on how your brain is wired.

The rwd is slower than xdrive. My brain was wired for the better traction and faster car.

[Beartato]

Originally Posted by nike001

Everyone's been brainwashed to think that they NEED awd or they won't be able to budge if it snows or rains.

Almost every dealer about halfway up the U.S. does the same thing. Nobody wants rwd except for us enthusiasts.

Pretty much. It's a shame. When I was looking for my car I looked all throughout the Northwest and literally every car stocked at dealers were xDrive models. Ended up being the luckiest car buyer ever having an M235i dealer transferred from South Bay BMW in southern California which just happened to be optioned exactly how I wanted.

I picked up mine mid-winter this year but for the times we did have crappy weather I never had any issues driving. As had been beaten to death in this thread, common sense and proper tires outweigh the drivetrain.

Originally Posted by M235iguy

The rwd is slower than xdrive. My brain was wired for the better traction and faster car. :grin:

...in a straight line, and that's about it.

[Merc for hire]

If you have to ask about getting xDrive or not, get the xDrive.
You are obviously not a RWD kind of driver.

[Merc for hire]

If you enjoy playing the maximum possible for a non-M 2 Series, definitely go get a M235i xDrive Convertible. BMW AG will love you