[cmorris975]

Most of the cars I see around here are not AWD so I was thinking I would be OK with a RWD 228i but before I order the thing I am wondering if that is a bad move. I mean, all the 228i's at the dealer around here are xDrive ones, so I figure that is a clue. Will this thing just be too dangerous to drive with anything more than the littlest amount of snow on the ground? Could I get away with the RWD model and just put snow tires on in the winter?

Thanks,

Chris

[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by cmorris975@hotmail.com

Most of the cars I see around here are not AWD so I was thinking I would be OK with a RWD 228i but before I order the thing I am wondering if that is a bad move. I mean, all the 228i's at the dealer around here are xDrive ones, so I figure that is a clue. Will this thing just be too dangerous to drive with anything more than the littlest amount of snow on the ground? Could I get away with the RWD model and just put snow tires on in the winter?

Thanks,

Chris

You can absolutely do fine with RWD and dedicated winter tires, as my son does in your area, and we do near Detroit. Suggest Blizzak WS (not LM) or Michelin XIce xi3 tires. Don't let dealer stocking patterns dictate what you want. You also won't find manual transmissions usually in stock, but they are just fine as well, if you wish one. Also keep in mind, AWD helps you get going, which is a nice convenience. But, for a braking/turning maneuver to avoid something in your path on snow and ice, it's all about the tires. AWD has no effect, and avoiding an impact is the strongest safety factor. Many prior threads on this subject. Suggest doing a search as well, and you will see many similar discussions as well as disagreements! Some folks are just AWD "true believers'!!

[BEM-S4]

Originally Posted by cmorris975@hotmail.com

Most of the cars I see around here are not AWD so I was thinking I would be OK with a RWD 228i but before I order the thing I am wondering if that is a bad move. I mean, all the 228i's at the dealer around here are xDrive ones, so I figure that is a clue. Will this thing just be too dangerous to drive with anything more than the littlest amount of snow on the ground? Could I get away with the RWD model and just put snow tires on in the winter?

Thanks,

Chris

It's flat there. Studless ice and snow and half a brain's worth of common sense and you'll be fine RWD.

[BMW335iOn18s]

Definitely. And you'll be happy you did.

[M235iguy]

If people have rwd they will tell you rwd if people have xdrive they will tell you xdrive. Im here as a xdrive owner to say xdrive. Personally I dont want to swap out tires over and over again. If you like switching out tires and storing them and buying extra wheels ect. Then rwd wouldn't be a bad option. If you like to drive in any condition without worrying what tires you have on, then xdrive would be a great option.

[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by M235iguy

If people have rwd they will tell you rwd if people have xdrive they will tell you xdrive. Im here as a xdrive owner to say xdrive. Personally I dont want to swap out tires over and over again. If you like switching out tires and storing them and buying extra wheels ect. Then rwd wouldn't be a bad option. If you like to drive in any condition without worrying what tires you have on, then xdrive would be a great option.

Respectfully, he did not ask about preferences. He asked:

Could I get away with the RWD model and just put snow tires on in the winter?

The answer clearly is "yes", and he can do far better than "get away with" regardless of AWD owner preferences for their selection.

But, more worrisome is your final statement. One cannot drive in Cleveland, or any other winter environment, without thought about proper tires no matter if rear or all wheel drive. The mystified but low-information SUV owners with all season tires in roadside ditches during winter attest to this when the lack of superiority of AWD alone for braking/turning becomes quite clear. Braking and steering are essentially all mediated by tires, and those functions are far more safety-related than the convenience of getting moving from a stop.

[M235iguy]

Originally Posted by Sportstick

Respectfully, he did not ask about preferences. He asked:

Could I get away with the RWD model and just put snow tires on in the winter?

The answer clearly is "yes", and he can do far better than "get away with" regardless of AWD owner preferences for their selection.

But, more worrisome is your final statement. One cannot drive in Cleveland, or any other winter environment, without thought about proper tires no matter if rear or all wheel drive. The mystified but low-information SUV owners with all season tires in roadside ditches during winter attest to this when the lack of superiority of AWD alone for braking/turning becomes quite clear. Braking and steering are essentially all mediated by tires, and those functions are far more safety-related than the convenience of getting moving from a stop.

Just like I said, a rwd owner will tell you rwd and a xdrive owner will tell you xdrive. I will take xdrive and awd over rwd in winter conditions 24 hours a day and 365 days a year period.

Im well aware that the tire matters, and my point was I dont want to swap tires and I live in a state that proclaims " the greatest snow on earth " I've driven in rwd and awd, I prefer awd. Im not racing around corners in snow or ice, im looking for solid traction to get going.

[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by M235iguy

Just like I said, a rwd owner will tell you rwd and a xdrive owner will tell you xdrive. I will take xdrive and awd over rwd in winter conditions 24 hours a day and 365 days a year period.

Which is your perfect right, but you are still answering a different question than he asked. He already prefers RWD and wants to know if he will be OK in Cleveland winters. Clearly, he will if he chooses tires wisely.

If concerned about his safety in winter, the discussion should be first about tires for braking/turning and very secondarily about powertrain configurations for some assistance in getting going.

[Xiaoxi]

The best tool for winter driving is common goddamn sense.

Even during the horrendous ice-out this winter, my rwd 235 on run flat no-seasons made it out without a scratch.

[M235iguy]

Originally Posted by Sportstick

Which is your perfect right, but you are still answering a different question than he asked. He already prefers RWD and wants to know if he will be OK in Cleveland winters. Clearly, he will if he chooses tires wisely.

If concerned about his safety in winter, the discussion should be first about tires for braking/turning and very secondarily about powertrain configurations for some assistance in getting going.

its very much related to the question. its a question pertaining to xdrive AND rwd. I dont know if you're trolling or looking for me to agree with you or what...

Reports say that rwd with snow tires is just fine for snow and can actually do better than a awd car with all season tires for certain situations. This stuff is nothing new, its on the internet. I subscribe to consumer reports. I'm giving an opinion based on someone who has driven in snow with rwd and awd. I've owned 2 370z's and those are a scary drive in the snow. My first car was a old mercury zephyr, another nightmare vehicle. I have had 2 Subaru's with awd that were a dream in winter conditions. so back to his question of can he get away with rwd? sure...he can probably get away stealing a steak at the grocery store as well.

[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by M235iguy

its very much related to the question. its a question pertaining to xdrive AND rwd. I dont know if you're trolling or looking for me to agree with you or what...

Reports say that rwd with snow tires is just fine for snow and can actually do better than a awd car with all season tires for certain situations. This stuff is nothing new, its on the internet. I subscribe to consumer reports. I'm giving an opinion based on someone who has driven in snow with rwd and awd. I've owned 2 370z's and those are a scary drive in the snow. My first car was a old mercury zephyr, another nightmare vehicle. I have had 2 Subaru's with awd that were a dream in winter conditions. so back to his question of can he get away with rwd? sure...he can probably get away stealing a steak at the grocery store as well.

It is of no matter if we agree or not. However, I am giving a specific answer to his question, not the general comparative discussion you seem to prefer while now dismissing his specific question sarcastically.

Most here have had experience with both systems, which allows some objective points to be made. For the convenience of motion traction AWD&winters > RWD&winters>AWD&allseason>RWD&allseason. However for braking/steering (typical off throttle avoidance maneuver), winter tires>all season, regardless of powertrain comparison.

[M235iguy]

Originally Posted by Sportstick

It is of no matter if we agree or not. However, I am giving a specific answer to his question, not the general comparative discussion you seem to prefer while now dismissing his specific question sarcastically.

Most here have had experience with both systems, which allows some objective points to be made. For the convenience of motion traction AWD&winters > RWD&winters>AWD&allseason>RWD&allseason. However for braking/steering (typical off throttle avoidance maneuver), winter tires>all season, regardless of powertrain comparison.

YAWN

[N55guy]

I had a 335xi (AWD) before my m235i (RWD). In winter I've run both with winter tires. I live in Wisconsin.

AWD was amazing when it snowed and acceleration incredibly fast. With winter tires it just doesn't feel like it snowed. But RWD has just been significantly more fun, and it still does ok through winter. I only miss AWD at stop lights and the day it snows 4+ inches (at least until plows come through, which happens pretty quickly in Wisconsin)

Not sure if I'm right but I'm pretty sure the 2 series AWD cars only come in automatic... That for me would be a deal breaker

[cmorris975]

Originally Posted by Sportstick

You can absolutely do fine with RWD and dedicated winter tires, as my son does in your area, and we do near Detroit. Suggest Blizzak WS (not LM) or Michelin XIce xi3 tires. Don't let dealer stocking patterns dictate what you want. You also won't find manual transmissions usually in stock, but they are just fine as well, if you wish one. Also keep in mind, AWD helps you get going, which is a nice convenience. But, for a braking/turning maneuver to avoid something in your path on snow and ice, it's all about the tires. AWD has no effect, and avoiding an impact is the strongest safety factor. Many prior threads on this subject. Suggest doing a search as well, and you will see many similar discussions as well as disagreements! Some folks are just AWD "true believers'!!

Thanks for sharing your experience everyone, I really appreciate it. This makes sense to me as with my AWD Subaru there have been a few times where I have been pulling up to a stop sign on an icy road and my car will continue to slide 4-10 feet despite driving slow and carefully. This is with the stock tires the car came with. I'm sure proper winter tires would fare better.

I've got no problem changing my tires in October and April every year.

Thanks again,

Chris

[sstarrx3]

Originally Posted by Sportstick

Respectfully, he did not ask about preferences. He asked:

Could I get away with the RWD model and just put snow tires on in the winter?

The answer clearly is "yes", and he can do far better than "get away with" regardless of AWD owner preferences for their selection.

But, more worrisome is your final statement. One cannot drive in Cleveland, or any other winter environment, without thought about proper tires no matter if rear or all wheel drive. The mystified but low-information SUV owners with all season tires in roadside ditches during winter attest to this when the lack of superiority of AWD alone for braking/turning becomes quite clear. Braking and steering are essentially all mediated by tires, and those functions are far more safety-related than the convenience of getting moving from a stop.

I did with AWD cars for 10 years when I lived in Oregon. We lived in the mountains in the winter skiing every weekend and the Cascades get 400 inches of snow a year. Never once had anything but AW tires on the car. We also drove up to Whistler and Lake Louise to ski in the winter...long drive...lots of snow..never had a problem whatsoever. Having said that a RWD car with Winter tires will do just fine...on flat land! The folks in ditches are the ones who have no clue on how to drive in snow and ice conditions and think AWD is an equalizer to letting you drive like the roads are clear...never true.

[BEM-S4]

Originally Posted by cmorris975@hotmail.com

Thanks for sharing your experience everyone, I really appreciate it. This makes sense to me as with my AWD Subaru there have been a few times where I have been pulling up to a stop sign on an icy road and my car will continue to slide 4-10 feet despite driving slow and carefully. This is with the stock tires the car came with. I'm sure proper winter tires would fare better.

I've got no problem changing my tires in October and April every year.

Thanks again,

Chris

Proper winters and throw 100lbs of sand in the trunk and you'll be good to go. For reference I got caught in my S4 in a freak snow late spring with summer tires and it was useless - with the blizzaks on the thing was like a snow leopard. So tires do make a huge difference even with AWD.

[Transfer]

With RWD or xDrive you should be using winter tires in freezing temps. Since it's flat there, go with RWD.

[raleedy]

Just a couple of other thoughts to add to what Sportstick says: (a) in Cleveland you may want to lease your RWD car rather than buy it, to avoid the potential problem of finding a buyer in a market where everyone else seems to prefer AWD; and (b) I think there is another safety factor to consider: with AWD you don't really feel the loss of traction on slippery surfaces until you try to brake or steer, and that may be too late. I like the ability RWD gives you to "feel" the surface.

[kdog26372]

I've had a tuned 135i RWD with snows, and X3 35i with all seasons mild tune and now a AWD M235i tuned with downpipe as well, with summers in summer and winters in winter; so I've actually experience pretty much similar weather as you through 8 years of ownership so I'm not just tossing out opinion or preference, but rather had real world experience with all options.

I think you're fine with a 128 rwd with snows for winter as it won't have same traction issues as I had with tuned 135i and X3 with the added torque. If you plan to tune the care, you will appreciate the AWD in damp conditions.

It's not just about snow though, it's rain in the midwest. At least 1/3 of the year has some form of precipitation and if you have a RWD car with lots of torque you will go nowhere with even mildly damp pavement from a stop and around turns as TC will kick in all the time and this gets quite annoying.

I've got probably close to 400 of torque and have no issues with traction in light rain from a stop.

I also had an X3 with all seasons and those things were terrible in the winter getting out of mild ruts in Chicago alleys. So, it also depends on the all seasons the car comes with as the X3 ones were horrible and either snows or I've found Continental Extreme Contact DWS to be excellent in the snow and dry as a year rounder.

Like other poster mentioned, regardless of which are you pick, if you live in upper midwest, get summer tires in summer and winters in winter; best of both worlds.

[mcompact]

Originally Posted by raleedy

Just a couple of other thoughts to add to what Sportstick says: (a) in Cleveland you may want to lease your RWD car rather than buy it, to avoid the potential problem of finding a buyer in a market where everyone else seems to prefer AWD; and (b) I think there is another safety factor to consider: with AWD you don't really feel the loss of traction on slippery surfaces until you try to brake or steer, and that may be too late. I like the ability RWD gives you to "feel" the surface.

Good points. I remember the first time someone told me-with a straight face-that they couldn't buy a RWD car because they needed something that they could drive in the rain. I honestly thought that they were joking.
They weren't. Incredible...

[michelito]

My local dealer (Montreal, Quebec) only has automatic AWD for almost every model they keep in inventory.
Maybe because there's more profit for them this way?

We've had a law for the last few years that prohibits the use of all-season or summer tires in the winter, so we need proper winter tires up here.

Never had AWD on any of my cars, but I've always put proper snow tires (Nokian Hakka with or without studs).

Sometimes it would be nice to have AWD when starting up a hill, but I've never got stuck, and always made it to where I wanted to go - and I do go skiing every weekend.

Plus that way I get to enjoy a manual transmission, which you can only get in the 2series with rear-wheel drive.

Do a test-drive with both if you can, then you can see if you prefer the feeling of one over the other; but you can definitely enjoy RWD with snow tires in the winter

[kz1000]

Originally Posted by Xiaoxi

The best tool for winter driving is common goddamn sense.

Even during the horrendous ice-out this winter, my rwd 235 on run flat no-seasons made it out without a scratch.

This right here. My rwd 228 with the all season tires is better in the snow than any fwd car I've ever had.