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      05-14-2015, 01:59 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by B-1Pilot View Post
LOL... love Chris Harris.
but he does the same shit with everycar... if drifting is your thing, great.
of course he picked the DCT for the F80 M3 (go to 10:18):
[VIDEO 1]
What's his review of the DCT only M5? the PDK only 991TTS and 991 GT3?
While he laments early the lack of manual, in all he concedes the dual clutch tranny is superlative and enhances the driving experience.
By the way anyone ever see his personal car? Nasty (go to 1:20):
[VIDEO 2]
It's no secret that CH prefers MT's. Check what he says in both videos:
video 1: 05:29-05:34 (OK, SMGII ain't DCT, but still)
video 2: 07:02-07:29 (see also 09:06-09:13)
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      05-14-2015, 03:18 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by B-1Pilot View Post
Respectfully, go get more DCT time before you make a purchase or order decision... properly configured the DCT will never go into overdrive... its only there because the tranny is so adaptive it can use it to get to the gas mileage if needed (and allows my car to have racecar setting for me and lux-cruiser for her).
Fair enough. I should before making any final decisions, but I don't see how settings make this a better issue. The point is that an automatic goes into it's highest gear when not called to be driven hard. Transmissions that hold on to each gear consistently are not ideal either. It really comes down to you have to use the paddles to best mimic manual control. Any other setting is still automatic to varying degrees.
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      05-14-2015, 03:41 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by chrisj951 View Post
If it were my daily driver, a DCT all the way. Atlanta traffic sucks and a manual is torture, but if it's a 2nd car, manual all the way.
Yup, I'm also in Atlanta and traffic is the reason I bought a DCT 1er. But I may have to get a 6spd M2... I can't decide.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gtfalve View Post
Save the $3k and get the appropriate transmission for a proper sports car. 6MT
M2 is not a sports car.
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      05-14-2015, 04:03 PM   #48
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[QUOTE=gtfalve;17904767]Save the $3k and get the appropriate transmission for a proper sports car. 6MT[/

M cars are not proper sports cars. Not even the 1M. They are too heavy and lack the handling characteristics. What they are is monster tuned sport sedans/coupes.
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      05-14-2015, 06:24 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Twix View Post
I drove an E92 M3 with DCT. It was fun, but there are things DCT can't do, at least not for me.

It won't go from 6th to 2nd on a mountain road while cruising and having a bit of spirited fun without going through every other gear.
WOT (kickdown) plus two down clicks and it goes to the lowest gear instantaneously.
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      05-14-2015, 06:30 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by IEDEI View Post
if you're gonna get an M2, for f*cks sake get a manual. If you don't know how to drive one; LEARN. The M2 should ONLY be sold in a manual...just like the Cayman GT4 and 1M are/were.

I've owned dual clutch gearboxes in the past....they are lazy and boring; even when driven in manual mode all the time as I did when I owned one.

If the M2 gets the super crappy ZF 8 speed auto I will laugh...
Oh gosh. I drive an e90 m3 manual and track it very often in a manual. I heeltoe on every single shift, even in the parking lot. I am a master at it.

That being said, I'm at a point where I want better laptimes at the track now, no more drifting complete hairpins anymore, thus will go for DCT this time. It's pretty damn fun in itself.

Plus, in the city, downshift to 1st gear just for sound! haha.
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      05-15-2015, 06:39 AM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fcman View Post
Yup, I'm also in Atlanta and traffic is the reason I bought a DCT 1er. But I may have to get a 6spd M2... I can't decide.


M2 is not a sports car.

haha....exactly this! ahh what could have been.... thank you M division‼️ 👍
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      05-15-2015, 08:39 AM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trey100 View Post
Fair enough. I should before making any final decisions, but I don't see how settings make this a better issue. The point is that an automatic goes into it's highest gear when not called to be driven hard. Transmissions that hold on to each gear consistently are not ideal either. It really comes down to you have to use the paddles to best mimic manual control. Any other setting is still automatic to varying degrees.
you understand that in S1 you can shift the car just like you would a manual, minues a clutch pedal... meaning you can be in whatever gear you want using either the stick or the paddles?

Quote:
Originally Posted by socal TW View Post
WOT (kickdown) plus two down clicks and it goes to the lowest gear instantaneously.
It's slightly different than that on my M5 (there are actually multiple ways to this, and the DME and ECU will adapt to your driving style). Someone sent me a PM asking about the current DCT, I think my answer is worth sharing with all:

I can be in 7th cruising in overdrive down the highway and if someone comes aside and wants a go, I just floor it while holding the paddle and it will dump multiple gears directly, usually to third. It's whatever is about 90% RPM in the center of the power band and the car launches like a banshee...

In sport + mode going the other way it will hold high RPM even when letting off the gas and you can pseudo engine brake, so on the track it doesn't roll back RPM as you brake before turns, so when you come back on the gas at APEX the power is instant... this is hard to do in a manual, and as one of the other posters said, you can even shift mid turn.

Finally in the DCT you can WOT shift.. meaning never coming off the gas to switch gears. It is damn incredible.


To me, DCT is the best of manual and automatic combined. The only non-halo gearbox out there that might be better is the PDK.

I want some of the good tech to waterfall down to the M2, if it truly is going to be a trunctuated M3/4. Heck, I want the M-HUD in the thing... drive spirited with that and you will wonder what you did without it.
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Last edited by B-1Pilot; 05-16-2015 at 02:27 AM..
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      05-15-2015, 01:59 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by B-1Pilot View Post
LOL... love Chris Harris.

but he does the same shit with everycar... if drifting is your thing, great.

of course he picked the DCT for the F80 M3 (go to 10:18):


What's his review of the DCT only M5? the PDK only 991TTS and 991 GT3?
While he laments early the lack of manual, in all he concedes the dual clutch tranny is superlative and enhances the driving experience.

By the way anyone ever see his personal car? Nasty (go to 1:20):
Haha, just trying to get some ish started.
I don't know what his view is on the manual F10 M5, but I think that the car has been panned. The engines are supposedly best suited for the DCTs. But that is something to ask on the M5 board.

Chris goes thru cars like a mad man. He had a e92 M3 (manual I believe) that he adored, a 997 911 GT3 RS 4.0, sold that and got a 599 GTB ( due to being forbidden fruit at the time), and that Audi. I don't know what he drives now. But, he is a staunch BMW and Porsche fanatic. And he may have a secret love for Mercedes and Caddy (the latter because of being introduced to the CTS-V wagon by the Drive crew). And he has a thing for vintage Cars---Jags, Ferraris.

Another reason to get a manual---a manual is a carjacking and theft deterrent.
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      05-15-2015, 08:06 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sstarrx3 View Post
M cars are not proper sports cars. Not even the 1M. They are too heavy and lack the handling characteristics. What they are is monster tuned sport sedans/coupes.
Regardless of what you personally might be convinced about, when getting an M car, you better tick that 'sports car' box, if any, on the insurance documents.
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      05-15-2015, 08:13 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sstarrx3 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by gtfalve View Post
Save the $3k and get the appropriate transmission for a proper sports car. 6MT
M cars are not proper sports cars. Not even the 1M. They are too heavy and lack the handling characteristics. What they are is monster tuned sport sedans/coupes.
Wait, you're kidding right?

Last edited by Adem1534; 05-16-2015 at 10:54 AM..
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      05-15-2015, 08:27 PM   #56
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[QUOTE=Adem1534;17919822]
Quote:
Originally Posted by sstarrx3 View Post

Wait, you're kidding right?
Not at all...an M car is no more a sports car than a Mustang is. If it can have all that HP and Torque and still get smoked on a road course by a proper sports car with less power and torque then its not a proper sports car. Its all about light weight and handling.
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      05-16-2015, 09:19 AM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sstarrx3 View Post
If it can have all that HP and Torque and still get smoked on a road course by a proper sports car with less power and torque then its not a proper sports car. Its all about light weight and handling.
If you take that statement literally, the only proper sports cars would be Caterhams, Atoms, etc.
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      05-16-2015, 09:55 AM   #58
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[QUOTE=sstarrx3;17919867]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adem1534 View Post

Not at all...an M car is no more a sports car than a Mustang is. If it can have all that HP and Torque and still get smoked on a road course by a proper sports car with less power and torque then its not a proper sports car. Its all about light weight and handling.
Ha!
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      05-16-2015, 10:51 AM   #59
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[QUOTE=Die ///M Rakete;17921661]
Quote:
Originally Posted by sstarrx3 View Post

Ha!
For some reason your quote says I posted that, when that post was actually someone else's response to my question, just for the record

Edit: something got messed up in this comment string and its not displaying who said what correctly

Edit 2: Figured it out. The comment code is missing the '[\QUOTE]' for the inside quote.

Last edited by Adem1534; 05-16-2015 at 10:58 AM..
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      05-16-2015, 11:08 AM   #60
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Originally Posted by sth519 View Post
If you take that statement literally, the only proper sports cars would be Caterhams, Atoms, etc.
No not exactly...those cars while very lightweight and lightning quick...still do not handle like a Porsche. Those are race cars for professional drivers. Good example is the base Cayman can beat out the M235i on a track by a full second while being way down on Hp and T.
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      05-16-2015, 11:40 AM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sstarrx3 View Post
No not exactly...those cars while very lightweight and lightning quick...still do not handle like a Porsche. Those are race cars for professional drivers. Good example is the base Cayman can beat out the M235i on a track by a full second while being way down on Hp and T.
So pretty much if there is something faster with less hp and torque, it's not a sports car, got it.



Seems like you're just being salty, just sayin'

Last edited by Adem1534; 05-16-2015 at 12:12 PM..
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      05-16-2015, 12:23 PM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sstarrx3 View Post
No not exactly...those cars while very lightweight and lightning quick...still do not handle like a Porsche. Those are race cars for professional drivers. Good example is the base Cayman can beat out the M235i on a track by a full second while being way down on Hp and T.
Please do tell of all the Porsches and Ariels and Caterhams you have track time in, along with you M-car driving experience.

There are plenty of M cars that are on active racing teams right now, just like Porsche.

"on a track by a full second" -- which track? Let me guess, you got that from some clip you saw on jalopnik or the evo review? snore. Go ahead check out the Cayman S vs M235 Willow Springs times and you will see the opposite result.

The base cayman costs 20% more than a base M235, so why is this even surprising? Heck, the base model 6MT M4 is the same price as a base cayman -- that is the right matchup.
The M235 is not an M-car, no matter what anyone on this forum might try to claim otherwise... on the other hand, the M2 will be a pure M-car with the benefit of time, engineering, and design that wasn't available in the 1M development. I highly suspect it will be priced aggressively to compete with caymans... I'm expecting its performance is somewhere around the Cayman S and GTS variants -again at about $10-15K less in price.

I'm looking forward to getting one, not because its the only M I can afford, but because its the next type of M I want to add to my garage -- a sportscar that I will throw around the track.
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      05-16-2015, 01:08 PM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sstarrx3 View Post
Those are race cars for professional drivers.
That's why I wrote Caterhams and Atoms - these aren't race cars, they are road-legal sports cars.

If we include non-road-legal vehicles... well... 125cc shifter karts have 4 wheels (so technically they're are a kind of car). They can accelerate from 0-60 in 3 seconds, brake faster than just about anything and pull up to 3g in the corners. And all of that with less than 50hp and a dry weight of less than 200lbs. Makes every road car feel like a slow, heavy, luxury cruiser in direct comparison.
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      05-17-2015, 04:08 PM   #64
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I generally consider a sports car to only have 2 seats. Z4s, caymans, corvettes, etc. It's not a sports car if your kids can legally sit in the back (pointing at the 911, lol).
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      05-17-2015, 04:37 PM   #65
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I don't know what's so controversial. M2 will be based on a sedan platform. It's inherently at a disadvantage against something that is designed to be a sports car from the ground up. Much heavier and weight in the wrong place. It's going to come with more creature comforts with the understanding that these cars are used every day.

That's actually why I like M cars. They are all arounders.

The M2 may have the power to be faster than some Porsches at some tracks but I'm not expecting it to be as nimble feeling or as good in providing feedback. It won't be as focused overall. But in return you get a more usable everyday package.

Last edited by vantagesc; 05-17-2015 at 04:43 PM..
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      05-17-2015, 05:36 PM   #66
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+1

I think it's mostly hair-splitting, to be honest, although I think that the (smaller) M cars are at least closer to "real" sports cars than all the "4 door coupés" are to actual coupés.
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