[Twix]

Originally Posted by Artemis

According to Jalopnik last week, there will be no choice: "We’ve also heard the new M2 will be manual-only, so get excited about that." (http://jalopnik.com/report-2016-bmw-...t-f-1702917744)

If that statement would be accurate - which I personally doubt - it overrules earlier more reliable info.


Rumors, rumors...

There's been test cars spotted with DCT in them. So where's click-bait Jalopnik getting their info from?

[bdogk]

I'm on allocation order for my M2. I too have a dilemma when the time comes to actually placing the order - whether to go with DCT or MT. I grew up and learned to drive MT in a '74 2002. Our current household includes wife's '14 435xDrive, my '15 X3 both with full MSports pack, and my son drives a modified E30 325i 5sp MT. I have driven current DCT M3/M4 on tracks numerous times and can attest to how good the transmission is. However, I have yet to drive one in MT. So keep your opinions coming so I can make my decision when time comes to ordering.

[Denk]

I love DCT with the s65 but I think a manual will be my choice for the M2...especially if I can keep my M3.

[B-1Pilot]

DCT, no question.

MT is for the nostalgics... it belongs with black and white TVs, rotary phones, and carburetors

[moldcad]

Never drove a BMW with DCT, but if it's no worse than the one in Golf R mk 7 - no brainer...

[IEDEI]

if you're gonna get an M2, for f*cks sake get a manual. If you don't know how to drive one; LEARN. The M2 should ONLY be sold in a manual...just like the Cayman GT4 and 1M are/were.

I've owned dual clutch gearboxes in the past....they are lazy and boring; even when driven in manual mode all the time as I did when I owned one.

If the M2 gets the super crappy ZF 8 speed auto I will laugh...

[B-1Pilot]

ah yes.. the typical argument -- if you dont want a manual you must not know how to drive.

i think quite the opposite -- Manual becomes boring and repetitive. I'll even argue most MT drivers haven't driven a car with a high end tranny like DCT or PDK, and think its just a regular automatic. Go drive a M4 or M5 in full M mode S1 and hit your own shifts... you will find you are way more connected than any rower.

I agree that I dont want the ZF8 that is in my 335, but that wasnt the question -- I want the DCT that is in my M5.

And in case you're wondering whether I have a MT car too:

[UpNcOmINg!]

All about preference.
i would understand both choices.
DCT is lighting quick on up and downshift. Throttle blips on downshift are orgasmic! The backpressure noise on upshifts is just cracking! Absolute breeze in traffic and when you want to go slow. Also, on track it allows you to focus more on your cornering entry and exit instead of burdening yourself with an additional task of clutch in, select the right gear, through neutral, get that gear, clutch out.

Manual just connects you better. Takes more skill to get that right up or downshift. More skill to get off the line. Requires more focus especially when you want to go fast. It connects you to the car in just one more dimension that the paddles don't quite allow. On track manual also allows you more engine braking and an ability to use the back end into corners more effectively.
And I absolutely LOVE the look on peoples faces when you outlaunch their DCT/PDK/DSG (I have driven all these DC boxes). Aaaaah priceless!

In my circles I have always had a manual and have earned the title of DCT Leg I will own it and wear it with pride and keep shifting manually as long as possible.
Long live the third pedal!!!!

[///Mobbin]

I think this is an individual decision and requires a lot of thought. My last four cars have been 6MT->DCT->PDK->6MT. While I prefer DCT or PDK at the track by a slight margin, I highly prefer a manual transmission on the street, its just more enjoyable for me. What I weighed heavily in going back to the 6MT on my last car was the fact that I am street driving it 90% of the time. With both my DCT and PDK cars my daily commute felt a bit boring (after awhile), I simply enjoy rowing the gears more than zinging the paddles. Now it did take me 4 cars to come to terms with this, so chose carefully but know that you'll enjoy the car either way!

[///Mobbin]

Originally Posted by UpNcOmINg!

All about preference.
i would understand both choices.
DCT is lighting quick on up and downshift. Throttle blips on downshift are orgasmic! The backpressure noise on upshifts is just cracking! Absolute breeze in traffic and when you want to go slow. Also, on track it allows you to focus more on your cornering entry and exit instead of burdening yourself with an additional task of clutch in, select the right gear, through neutral, get that gear, clutch out.

Manual just connects you better. Takes more skill to get that right up or downshift. More skill to get off the line. Requires more focus especially when you want to go fast. It connects you to the car in just one more dimension that the paddles don't quite allow. On track manual also allows you more engine braking and an ability to use the back end into corners more effectively.
And I absolutely LOVE the look on peoples faces when you outlaunch their DCT/PDK/DSG (I have driven all these DC boxes). Aaaaah priceless!

In my circles I have always had a manual and have earned the title of DCT Leg I will own it and wear it with pride and keep shifting manually as long as possible.
Long live the third pedal!!!!

The ability to stay focused and more easily/effortlessly stay smooth is why I say I prefer dual clutch cars slightly at the track (road course). The idea of dropping a gear at any point in a turn is also a fun one.

But I do love my manuals and the precise connection/control they allow for!

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by technik330

I love the feeling of working my way through the gears, working the car myself.
It's almost an art to elegantly row gears, your feet look like they're almost dancing and the only sound is the metallic click between the gates - I love that shit.

Former M boss Dr. Kay Segler at Autosport Awards 2010, teasing the 1M.

02:26-02:34: "Manual, like the old guys did it, just manual, but that's the perfect sports car of the future"

[trey100]

Clearly the DCT is the better transmission from a pure performance standpoint. No one should argue that point. In all out driving - it will perform better. Faster in a straight line and on a track where you can focus on lines.

But in everyday driving, it just goes into the background, quickly changing into its highest gear for best gas mileage. That is really the negative against Autos whether DCT or ZF8. The manual is more engaging for every day driving.

I often question whether I should commit to an auto for a vehicle knowing it would extract the full potential of the car when called upon but when I've owned an auto (or test driven a DCT) I've quickly come to the conclusion that in my particular situation (no track time) where I spend most of my time on windy back country roads or highways, the manual keeps me engaged more.

I wouldn't rule out any one transmission but I would lean manual on the M2/3 for my particular situation.

[W///]

Originally Posted by B-1Pilot

ah yes.. the typical argument -- if you dont want a manual you must not know how to drive.

i think quite the opposite -- Manual becomes boring and repetitive. I'll even argue most MT drivers haven't driven a car with a high end tranny like DCT or PDK, and think its just a regular automatic. Go drive a M4 or M5 in full M mode S1 and hit your own shifts... you will find you are way more connected than any rower.

I agree that I dont want the ZF8 that is in my 335, but that wasnt the question -- I want the DCT that is in my M5.

And in case you're wondering whether I have a MT car too:

It's all subjective really. No one is going to change their minds about their transmission choice just from reading threads like this I would think.

Personally, I've tried DCT many many times. I certainly respect and don't really have anything bad to say about them, but it's just not my thing. To me, rowing my own gears is such a huge part I enjoy about driving.

The first time I drove an E9x M3 and DCT was at the Performance Center. Completely fell in love with both. The second time I drove an E92 was in Munich and got bored after a couple of hours with the car.

Another important thing for me is that I plan to keep these cars for a long long time. The simplicity of a manual trans is a big bonus too.

Love your combo of cars though. I need a garage is nice as yours!

[Die ///M Rakete]

Originally Posted by Artemis

According to Jalopnik last week, there will be no choice: "We’ve also heard the new M2 will be manual-only, so get excited about that." (http://jalopnik.com/report-2016-bmw-...t-f-1702917744)

If that statement would be accurate - which I personally doubt - it overrules earlier more reliable info.


Rumors, rumors...

This is the one rumor I hope is true. This would really screen them out

[Steven1077]

Could be the opposite, they could just make it a DCT, I bet 80% of M3/4 that are sold are DCT, plenty of fast cars don't have a stick shift as an option these days

[filet.M2c]

Originally Posted by Steven1077

Could be the opposite, they could just make it a DCT, I bet 80% of M3/4 that are sold are DCT, plenty of fast cars don't have a stick shift as an option these days

If this were true then count me out, but that won't be the case. MT for me all the way. OP, you should turn this into a poll. I wouldn't mind seeing the distribution of transmission choices.

[Die ///M Rakete]

Originally Posted by Steven1077

Could be the opposite, they could just make it a DCT, I bet 80% of M3/4 that are sold are DCT, plenty of fast cars don't have a stick shift as an option these days

Since the M235i already offers a manual I don't think we need to worry about that improbability much. I read that BMW had a 40% manual transmission uptake on the E90/92 M3s so at least the bean counters at AG still have a business case for keeping it around.

[Die ///M Rakete]

Originally Posted by synergist

If this were true then count me out, but that won't be the case. MT for me all the way. OP, you should turn this into a poll. I wouldn't mind seeing the distribution of transmission choices.

+1. I'm curious myself.

[Die ///M Rakete]

Originally Posted by B-1Pilot

MT is for the nostalgics... it belongs with black and white TVs, rotary phones, and carburetors

Strongly disagree. There are many cases where older technology exceeds the capability of modern technology.

Since you are a military man I'll give you a military example. The bolt action rifle (technology introduced in 1841) is still the most accurate rifle design in existence. No modern semi-automatic has dethroned it yet in that respect although semi-automatics and full automatics have exponentially higher rates of fire.

In much the same way, the manual transmission still offers the highest level of involvement even though the DCT is undoubtedly the faster shifting choice.

Newer isn't always better in all respects, just most

[B-1Pilot]

Originally Posted by UpNcOmINg!

All about preference.
i would understand both choices. On track it allows you to focus more on your cornering entry and exit instead of burdening yourself with an additional task of clutch in, select the right gear, through neutral, get that gear, clutch out.

Yes, and Yes!

Originally Posted by ///Mobbin

I think this is an individual decision and requires a lot of thought. My last four cars have been 6MT->DCT->PDK->6MT. While I prefer DCT or PDK at the track by a slight margin, I highly prefer a manual transmission on the street, its just more enjoyable for me.

Yes, and glad to see the experience informs your decision!

Originally Posted by ///Mobbin

The ability to stay focused and more easily/effortlessly stay smooth is why I say I prefer dual clutch cars slightly at the track (road course). The idea of dropping a gear at any point in a turn is also a fun one.

On the track I do think DCT is a better performer, but having Manual experience is equally rewarding

Originally Posted by trey100

Clearly the DCT is the better transmission from a pure performance standpoint. No one should argue that point. In all out driving - it will perform better. Faster in a straight line and on a track where you can focus on lines.

But in everyday driving, it just goes into the background, quickly changing into its highest gear for best gas mileage. That is really the negative against Autos whether DCT or ZF8. The manual is more engaging for every day driving.

Respectfully, go get more DCT time before you make a purchase or order decision... properly configured the DCT will never go into overdrive... its only there because the tranny is so adaptive it can use it to get to the gas mileage if needed (and allows my car to have racecar setting for me and lux-cruiser for her).

Originally Posted by W///

It's all subjective really. No one is going to change their minds about their transmission choice just from reading threads like this I would think.

Personally, I've tried DCT many many times. I certainly respect and don't really have anything bad to say about them, but it's just not my thing. To me, rowing my own gears is such a huge part I enjoy about driving.

The first time I drove an E9x M3 and DCT was at the Performance Center. Completely fell in love with both. The second time I drove an E92 was in Munich and got bored after a couple of hours with the car.

Another important thing for me is that I plan to keep these cars for a long long time. The simplicity of a manual trans is a big bonus too.

Love your combo of cars though. I need a garage is nice as yours!

Spot on comment, and thanks.

For who was asking on the MT vs DCT take rates --

E9X M3s in US, take rate as about 45% Manual
E60 M5 and E63 M6 in US, take rate was about 15% which is why it was dropped for the F10/F12

i dont know what the F80 take rate is currently, but if its anywhere above I would say 30% they should offer a manual for the M2. If they are going to do more than a limited run, they will have to do a DCT of some sort as well... didnt someone post a pic of a mule with paddles?

[IS3andME]

Originally Posted by B-1Pilot

ah yes.. the typical argument -- if you dont want a manual you must not know how to drive.

i think quite the opposite -- Manual becomes boring and repetitive. I'll even argue most MT drivers haven't driven a car with a high end tranny like DCT or PDK, and think its just a regular automatic. Go drive a M4 or M5 in full M mode S1 and hit your own shifts... you will find you are way more connected than any rower.

I agree that I dont want the ZF8 that is in my 335, but that wasnt the question -- I want the DCT that is in my M5.

And in case you're wondering whether I have a MT car too:

Boring and repetitive? Here is Chris Harris driving the Cayman GT4.
And remember there are several reasons why the E39 M5 is considered by quite a lot of people to be the best M5 (better than the e60 M5 and the F10 M5). And one of those is because it was El Manual.

[B-1Pilot]

Originally Posted by IS3andME

Boring and repetitive? Here is Chris Harris driving the Cayman GT4.
And remember there are several reasons why the E39 M5 is considered by quite a lot of people to be the best M5 (better than the e60 M5 and the F10 M5). And one of those is because it was El Manual.

LOL... love Chris Harris.

but he does the same shit with everycar... if drifting is your thing, great.

of course he picked the DCT for the F80 M3 (go to 10:18):

What's his review of the DCT only M5? the PDK only 991TTS and 991 GT3?
While he laments early the lack of manual, in all he concedes the dual clutch tranny is superlative and enhances the driving experience.

By the way anyone ever see his personal car? Nasty (go to 1:20):