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2Addicts | BMW 2-Series forum BMW 2 Series (F22) Forum BMW 2 Series Coupe and Cabriolet (F22/F23) General Forum BMW M235i is Faster On Track Than 1M Coupe (Our 2 Series Interview From Detroit)

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      01-16-2014, 02:35 AM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aajami View Post
Interesting note about the M235i being quicker around certain tracks than the 1M. While I still think that BMW will deliver an M2 at some point, this adds more fodder for the argument against one coming out.
There's still plenty of scope for an M2, performance wise. Just look at the new M3/M4, it 0.8 seconds faster to 60 than the outgoing one. The 1M was just 2 tenths shy of the E9x M3 so we have at least half a second to play with.

I reckon the M2 could easily come in at 4.3s to 4.4s for a 0-60 time as opposed to 4.8s for the M235i. Depends how light they make it and how much power, naturally. The demand is there for sure, the 1M has proven that theory.

But its not just about the performance. It's the experience. This M2 will sell like hot cakes. BMW's main issue will be if it takes too many sales away from the M3/M4.

Last edited by as7920; 01-16-2014 at 02:42 AM..
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      01-16-2014, 03:57 AM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by as7920 View Post
BMW's main issue will be if it takes too many sales away from the M3/M4.
The only issue for BMW is if the profit margin on the M3/M4 is greater than the profit margin on the M2...
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      01-16-2014, 05:04 AM   #69
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Weighs more, has less power and torque, no lsd (standard at least), less track width, less rubber to the ground

HOW
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      01-16-2014, 05:09 AM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dackelone
Quote:
Originally Posted by 135iMsportCoupe View Post
I don't get it...the 1M had more HP, more torque, and the adjustable rear suspension from the M3. It had the "M" button for throttle response. It was lighter than a 135i. How does the M235i beat it around the Ring? Was it driven by the Stig?
The newer car designs (F2x/F3x) are so much stiffer than the models they replace. A stiffer(structure) car will handle better. Its just that simple. Better handling equals faster lap times.


Dack
But the e8x chassis is already quite torsionally rigid, a marginally stiffer chassis wouldn't benefit that much real world

It's also overcoming the wider track and wider tires, that's what's impressive.. Let alone less torque and power.
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      01-16-2014, 05:46 AM   #71
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I would never change my 1m to an m235i. 1m has wide wheel arches looks the bomb and drives the bomb it s a small nimble car which still gives me after 2.5 years of ownership still the thrills when driving/sliding it on the edge.

Only a 6 cil m2 could get me out of my 1m coupe. If it gives me the same experiance of my 1m coupe!

Buying a bigger m3 or m4 is no way a consideration!
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      01-16-2014, 05:47 AM   #72
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Good!
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      01-16-2014, 05:58 AM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster View Post
earlier today, I looked at the wheelbase , width and height of the M4.

The M4 is the same width (73") as the E63 M6. It is 6" shorter and actually an inch taller. I don't know about you but that's a BIG, LONG, CAR. it's wheelbase is a whopping 110", which is 2" longer than an E90 and 6" longer than the 1M. Exterior length ... Compared to a 1M, the M4 is a FOOT LONGER.

It won't even fit in the same ( read: my) garage space as an E36 M3, E46 M3, or a 1M.

There cars are NOT that similar. and all this is s before we start talking the 15K price difference..... Most people don't cross shop cars 15K apart.
Good points. I think the M3 makes much more sense from a sizing perspective. If you are looking for a 2 door sportscar, a cayman s or a c7 make do with a lot less compromise.
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      01-16-2014, 07:36 AM   #74
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One thing I thought was interesting was the comparison of the 135/1M brakes to the M235 brakes. Didn't this guy say that because of the tires on the M235, those brakes were going to be better performers?

Makes you wonder how much better the 1er's would be with better rubber...
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      01-16-2014, 07:38 AM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian///M View Post
BMW always understated the 1M It has been discussed in other threads that the NBR 1M time BMW stated was off.

For the money though, the M235i looks like a fantastic piece of kit

below the E46 M3 CSL still looks the real deal
+1 on the 1M. I had a N54 135 (one of the first ones) and had a JB3 in it--it was very fast. It didn't hold a candle to the 1M, which was faster and handled a whole lot better.

I am excited for my M235, which should be a better experience than both of my E82s. I have no delusions that it will be as exciting as a true M car....and I sincerely hope that BMW gives this 2er the full ///M goodies--that would be one hell of a car.

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      01-16-2014, 08:43 AM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmboone25 View Post
+1 on the 1M. I had a N54 135 (one of the first ones) and had a JB3 in it--it was very fast. It didn't hold a candle to the 1M, which was faster and handled a whole lot better.

I am excited for my M235, which should be a better experience than both of my E82s. I have no delusions that it will be as exciting as a true M car....and I sincerely hope that BMW gives this 2er the full ///M goodies--that would be one hell of a car.

I want to see that bad boy in person when you pick it up.
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      01-16-2014, 08:52 AM   #77
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Nice but the wheels are still terrible
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      01-16-2014, 09:09 AM   #78
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LOL...

Quote:
Q: When will the M Performance Parts for the 2 Series be available?
A: Those responsible for them are trying to get these parts out as soon as possible, but I think we have to talk about the parts individually when talking about availability dates. They could become available piecemeal - at different times. The limited slip differential (LSD) is one of the popular parts people are waiting for. BMW itself is producing these; they're not bought off the shelf. And the demand for it is far exceeding our initial estimates. We were scaling production for x amount, but now the demand looks much higher. So the question is how do we get these parts out.

It looks like SCOTT hasn't been doing his (their) job.


How can an optional LSD, exceed their estimates..? When everyone, & I mean everyone... knows that BMW's should come with an LSD. And have been BEGGING for them to come back. Honestly, how can BMW miss all of the people complaining over the last 10 years, about the absence of LSDs in BMWs. They are all but admitting that BMW has not listen to their customer base in a long while.


Secondly, nobody is going to order a $48k M235i, if there wasn't a LSD option. Funny thing is, an LSD still isn't an option, because they don't have enough (& the Germans get first crack at them, so be prepared to wait with your $1,500).
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      01-16-2014, 09:37 AM   #79
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I love what BMW has done with the 2 series. Can't wait to see an M2.
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      01-16-2014, 09:44 AM   #80
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I'm really excited for this car! I think maybe even more so than the M3!
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      01-16-2014, 09:45 AM   #81
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does this mean that finally xdrive will get the same ride height and suspension setup for once?!?!?!!?!?!?!!?!?!?!

(propbably not but here's to hoping they dont jack it up and put the stock 228 suspension in the msport trim)
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      01-16-2014, 09:48 AM   #82
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While the 1M is very fast, it was really designed to be a brutal, raw, fun, and an analogue machine in a time where electronics, adaptable suspensions, etc. are becoming the norm. The 1M's performance has always been underrated by BMW (as stated in previous posts) to protect the M3 from a marketing perspective. I would expect that in side by side comparisons with the same driver and on the same day that the 1M would indeed be faster on many tracks due to its power-to-weight ratio and larger rubber. However, there are some features of the M235i that would make it faster on some tracks:
  • Better Rubber - The stock PSSs are a significant upgrade to the stock PS2s on the 1M
  • "Better Transmission" - the auto 8 speed is likely faster than the manual - even Chris Harris preferred it in his review of the M135i
  • Better Aero - the 1M is about as aerodynamic as a flying brick due to its fender flairs and brunt nose (also gives it a unique character)
  • Adaptive/More Compliant Suspension - the 1M has a very stiff spring rate that has been noted by some drivers/reviewers to make it perform slower on some tracks
  • Longer Wheelbase - better handling on high speed tracks the ability to put down power easier (even driven at 5-6/10ths the 1M will have the traction control light flashing constantly)
  • Better DTC/STC - longer development time (including the M135i) allowed BMW to better tune the stability control programs

Given all of this, slap some PSSs on the 1M and its likely going to be the faster car in the real world. Also, the 1M will always be better at this:

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      01-16-2014, 09:55 AM   #83
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My experience with both PS2's and PSS's on my Z3 M Coupe are that the PSS's have a softer sidewall and wear much better than PS2's, but they were not an improvement on the track. Look elsewhere for your huckleberry. I think the only cars they truly helped are much heavier than the 1M or the M235i.
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      01-16-2014, 10:16 AM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dd1981 View Post
I want to see that bad boy in person when you pick it up.
It's a deal my man.
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      01-16-2014, 10:18 AM   #85
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What enthusiasts need is a rwd 3200 lbs (or less) car that has basic features like Cayman R. I am sick of these overweight, luxury piglets that you need to invest another 10K to make usable on track and have no steering feel. M3/4 is clearly huge.
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      01-16-2014, 10:19 AM   #86
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Has any word been said on whether this LSD will fit in the m135i as well?
Or if it could be retrofitted?
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      01-16-2014, 10:24 AM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by positiveions
There goes the value of a //1M
That value is overrated...

It's just a Bastardized M Car.

In Germany people see it as a M Performance Model not a true and proper M Car. Imagine that!
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      01-16-2014, 10:26 AM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smooth 330i View Post
What enthusiasts need is a rwd 3200 lbs (or less) car that has basic features like Cayman R. I am sick of these overweight, luxury piglets that you need to invest another 10K to make usable on track and have no steering feel. M3/4 is clearly huge.
I agree, but I think they are trying to balance the true track junkie (Cayman R buyer) versus someone who wants excellent performance AND some comfort (original idea of the M3).

I have some curvy roads by my house that I rip through every day, whether it's on the Duc or in the 135, but I love the fact that I have A/C and a nice stereo. I would like to see an M2 (higher performance) but keep some level of comfort.

Perhaps that's why the M235 will be so "good" and enough to eventually get people into the M3 or 4 (aka no M2). I am personally not inclined to be one of those people because the 3/4 are physically too large for me--but I would still like some of the comforts that I am used to, which is why the M235 fits the bill for me with the current choices that are available.
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