[dc503]

You can look at it rationally, the Golf R might be a fantastic car and cheaper but there's never really all that good a 'value' argument when buying a BMW. I'm pretty sure most potential customers in the US aren't going to be influenced by a cheaper hatch. I'm not one bit swayed by the fact that a future car might be raising the future imaginary bar, mostly because one is an apple and one is an orange and partly because these are two cars that no one has driven yet.

Call it snobbery, but when I want a RWD coupe...I'm not even considering a VW Golf.

On topic, the M235i looks fantastic.

[Lucky13]

I wouldn't have a VW if you gave it to me.

[blefevre]

I think there will be very few people that cross shop those two cars. The general public doesn't really know the Golf R exists and I have a feeling most people buying a 2 series will be generic people looking for a lower cost BMW.

Now enthusiasts are a different thing. Cross shopping the R and the M235i is definitely worth a test drive. But they are two very different cars. An AWD hatch vs a RWD coupe. You really either want one or the other. But given the price and the character of the two cars, it's still an interesting comparison.

With that said....I own a 2012 Golf R. It's a great car both on the road and on the track. I will be cross shopping the MKVII R and the M235i just because I already own the 2012 R. I already have my mind 95% set on getting a M235i, but the R is still worth a drive.

[Powaup]

Originally Posted by Smooth 330i

It is the soft curvy lines and bland design on all newer models. If you take the badge and grills off how many people would think it's a bmw. It seems they are mimicking Toyota by repackaging the same engine and parts over and over again. Maybe folks in China like it. It is very sad there isn't a single bmw model for enthusiasts and there isn't even a high end model to compete with 911, R8, GTR, sls amg not even C7. BMW lost it's premium cache in my view unfortunately.

I just think bmw needs a "raw" sports car. We are tired of "sporty coupes" I understand that they try their best to find the balance between luxury/comfort and rawness but I think the m235i should be the entry level raw-sports car.

With that said I have not driven the m235i yet, still I believe it will be good enough to lease for 3 years but not finance and keep 7+ years IMO

[vinny84]

Not sure why people are comparing a VW Golf R to an M235i? :

I owned multiple VW's, including a 2010 MK6 GTI. I traded it in a year later to get a 2011 135i, because well, it didn't drive like a BMW. I've owned a 2008 BMW 335xi prior.

I understand the Golf R is AWD, but it's also FWD based with a Haldex controller. The driving dynamics on the M235i will be far superior than any Golf R, I can guarantee you that.

[buumer]

Originally Posted by vinny84

Not sure why people are comparing a VW Golf R to an M235i? :

I owned multiple VW's, including a 2010 MK6 GTI. I traded it in a year later to get a 2011 135i, because well, it didn't drive like a BMW. I've owned a 2008 BMW 335xi prior.

I understand the Golf R is AWD, but it's also FWD based with a Haldex controller. The driving dynamics on the M235i will be far superior than any Golf R, I can guarantee you that.

The autocar vid from the previous page concludes that an mk7 gti has a better steering feel and better body control than the m135i. mk7 r might be fwd based, but 100% power to rear wheels when needed could make it feel very much rwd during hard driving.

No reason to compare old gen mk6 vs old gen 135i, the 135i was a better car through and through. mk7 r is a whole different story. VW raised the bar while BMW replaced the sheet metal.

[vinny84]

Originally Posted by buumer

The autocar vid from the previous page concludes that an mk7 gti has a better steering feel and better body control than the m135i. mk7 r might be fwd based, but 100% power to rear wheels when needed could make it feel very much rwd during hard driving.

No reason to compare old gen mk6 vs old gen 135i, the 135i was a better car through and through. mk7 r is a whole different story. VW raised the bar while BMW replaced the sheet metal.

I'll make my judgement when both cars get released.

Keep in mind, the M235i is said to be a bit sportier than the M135i. Not sure how true that is, but we'll see. I'm betting BMW won't disappoint with this car.