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      04-16-2014, 05:15 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucky13
Merc the same size and same price as the new M3 sedan, that would be a no brainier decision in BMW's favor. How you compare a rear drive 2 door 6 cyl for $15K less with a much bigger 4 cyl 4 door all wheel drive is beyond comprehension from a consumer standpoint. Seems like the M3 would be a more natural competitor since its $60K and has 4 doors. Of course from what I've read the back seat in the Merc is about as useful or even less so than the M235.
You should work for Motor Trend then because that's a lot more ridiculous of a comparison than the M235 vs CLA45. M3 base price is like 14K more in the US.
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      04-16-2014, 05:28 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by AmazingJr View Post
I fully understand brake feel but i dont think Randy had anything negative to say about the M235i, i think Dumberman kept saying his negative opinions and Randy just agreed to avoid making him look stupid. Watch the video again and look at Randys face. He doesnt seem to agree.
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Originally Posted by AmazingJr View Post
Because he was told that lol
I get where you're coming from. It's like Pobst was led in to that evaluation, but it didn't seem disingenuous (from Randy's direction). I've driven both the M235i and the CLA 45 AMG. The pedal feel really is definitely different between them. The brakes in the M235i are great, but they're not as immediate as the CLA's. The brakes on the CLA 45 AMG are incredibly nice. They're cross-drilled, slotted, and 13.8 inches (!!) out front. I don't remember how large the M235i brakes are, but I think they're like 13.5 inches, if that, and they're not slotted or drilled. The calipers are nice, but the rotors don't have the extra diameter or venting. The CLA brakes will be more consistent when worked hard.
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      04-16-2014, 05:43 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AmazingJr View Post
I fully understand brake feel but i dont think Randy had anything negative to say about the M235i, i think Dumberman kept saying his negative opinions and Randy just agreed to avoid making him look stupid. Watch the video again and look at Randys face. He doesnt seem to agree.
+1

Yup. That was totally my impression too. He kept pumping Randy to join in on his negative bandwagon. If they had *asked* Randy point blank which was his favorite, there would've been no hesitation for a nod to the M235i.

Even when Lieberman did give the slight advantage to the BMW at the very end, it was very begrudging and there was no celebration before he quickly trotted out his favorite Subaru, stealing any thunder BMW won in this hard-fought duel.

I liked this piece a lot. There were some very fair points made re both cars that have been echoed by others. But Liberman didn't give enough weight to the findings or their potential remedies:

BMW power can easily be improved
Ditto re it's brakes

But...

How in the hell are you going to fix the cosmetics of the CLA rear end or improve the tranny that takes 2 seconds to shift or simply won't downshift?

Plus there's that $15k price difference...
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      04-16-2014, 07:33 PM   #48
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I drove both recently and liked both. The AMG has more on the boil regarding thrust and handles nice.

The M235 is a better balanced DD that has plenty of everything for most drivers. The suspension for me is the deal breaker for the AMG. To rough as a DD and is not adjustable to my knowledge.

The price diff is not really 15K The M235 is nearly striped and the AMG very well equipped. The seats alone are $2,250 and the price as tested for the M235 was 47K and the price of the AMG was 60K I think if you spec'd out equal cars (including M-performance parts to bridge the gap) the difference would drop to around 3-5K

I would still opt for the M235 because it is just a better fit for my daily driving needs. For me the lack of suspension adjustably is too much to pay for the tiny margin of extra performance.
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      04-16-2014, 08:31 PM   #49
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good review, in general.

The AMG is a more hardcore track car, but the reality is that it isn't that much more hardcore in terms of times, but it does have stiffer suspension, better brakes, sport bucket seats, and a more unique engine.

The M235i may not have all that special stuff, but its still a great car.

The main difference for why I chose the M235i is price, manual, engine more tunable, better MPG, less weight, RWD, and BMW 4 years maintenance.

The ending is both good and bad.

Bad because Lieberman is a BIG BIG subaru fan (really all their videos recently have been about the subaru).

The subaru is a great car like he said. Less price and as fun as the BMW. But IMO (and I know many people don't share this opinion based on the youtube comments), id rather fork over the extra 4K for better looks and interior and quality, but thats just me
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      04-16-2014, 08:48 PM   #50
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Amen to that. The Subaru shouldn't even be compared. The looks of that car puts it in a totally different class.

Honestly, the 2 series doesn't have a real classmate at this point.
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      04-16-2014, 09:02 PM   #51
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Nice video, surprising twist in the end w/ the STI plug lol
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      04-16-2014, 10:03 PM   #52
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In the end, the CLA barely got a win over the M235i. Keeping in mind that the CLA45 is the top performer in the CLA class and the M235i isn't in the 2 series. Just imagine what a true M 2 series is going to be capable of... Now that's something to look forward to
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      04-16-2014, 10:16 PM   #53
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Metak, I agree with you here...Pobst definitely exhibits "outlier" comments when it comes to BMWs including the M3 and 1M. Will be interesting to see how consensus reviews shake out, but doubtful you'll be hearing "best BMW in 10 years".

Having said that, I would take the M235i over the CLA AMG any day of the week. One would actually expect a better car from the AMG division.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.Metak2you View Post
I have a real problem with this comment. Randy is an excellent driver, he is no doubt very knowledgeable with the dynamics of the car while he is driving it but this comment almost makes me think he has something personal against the ///M division cars or someone who works there. I've been lucky enough to drive the M235i and for him to say there is no understeer and a slight oversteer dialed in compared to the 1M or any M3 seems crazy to me. The steering is nowhere near as good as the cars I just mentioned. He even went so far as to call the 1M turn in "lazy". Laughable.

The throttle response is good in the M235i but the 1M is better, even without pressing the M button for the remapped throttle response.

He loves the engine in the M235i but then says this about the 1M:

On the 1M engine... "The engine is smooth, the power is reasonably good, but in today's world, that's not a fast car. I'm telling ya, it is not a fast car in today's world. Maybe because I've just spent too much time in 500-horsepower cars." -RP


For more Randy Robst review of the 1M:

http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showp...28&postcount=1
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      04-17-2014, 03:16 AM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PoloRl
In the end, the CLA barely got a win over the M235i. Keeping in mind that the CLA45 is the top performer in the CLA class and the M235i isn't in the 2 series. Just imagine what a true M 2 series is going to be capable of... Now that's something to look forward to
A very good point
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      04-17-2014, 04:00 AM   #55
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So M235 gets 11.5mpg whipping in the canyons. Wonder what it averages at the track..
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      04-17-2014, 06:26 AM   #56
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Metak i just read the link you posted. I've always thought Randy was an idiot and had no idea what he was talking about but this just goes to prove. Motortrend really is a joke.
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      04-17-2014, 07:32 AM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMoney
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucky13
Merc the same size and same price as the new M3 sedan, that would be a no brainier decision in BMW's favor. How you compare a rear drive 2 door 6 cyl for $15K less with a much bigger 4 cyl 4 door all wheel drive is beyond comprehension from a consumer standpoint. Seems like the M3 would be a more natural competitor since its $60K and has 4 doors. Of course from what I've read the back seat in the Merc is about as useful or even less so than the M235.
You should work for Motor Trend then because that's a lot more ridiculous of a comparison than the M235 vs CLA45. M3 base price is like 14K more in the US.
I don't understand this M235i vs CLA 'AMG' comparison. One car is developed by its flagship Motorsport engineering group and the other isn't. IMO it's a narrow minded comparison based on the fact they produce similar power. #rantover

Oh and I've driven the 2series 2.0sport, 2.0i+2.0dM sport and M235i (manual) on track and the transitions are amazing. The M235i is well worth the price IMO. Like Randy said the power deliver is lag free! Brakes on the manual felt great to me! Basically don't base your decisions on videos. GO AND TEST DRIVE THE BEAUTY!
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      04-17-2014, 07:54 AM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.Metak2you View Post
I have a real problem with this comment. Randy is an excellent driver, he is no doubt very knowledgeable with the dynamics of the car while he is driving it but this comment almost makes me think he has something personal against the ///M division cars or someone who works there. I've been lucky enough to drive the M235i and for him to say there is no understeer and a slight oversteer dialed in compared to the 1M or any M3 seems crazy to me. The steering is nowhere near as good as the cars I just mentioned. He even went so far as to call the 1M turn in "lazy". Laughable.

The throttle response is good in the M235i but the 1M is better, even without pressing the M button for the remapped throttle response.

He loves the engine in the M235i but then says this about the 1M:

On the 1M engine... "The engine is smooth, the power is reasonably good, but in today's world, that's not a fast car. I'm telling ya, it is not a fast car in today's world. Maybe because I've just spent too much time in 500-horsepower cars." -RP


For more Randy Robst review of the 1M:

http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showp...28&postcount=1
This is a very good point - I hadn't thought of the potential conflict with the M division or personnel there...and I certainly don't agree that the M235 is the best driver's car to come out of BMW in the last 10 years - I was remiss to exclude my dad's Z4MC from my own list - that's the best driver's car I have ever been in, period...

But he said "favorite" - not best, so that can mean a whole host of things. If you look at it in terms of an "all-arounder" then maybe his comment makes more sense in that context. You are right about the steering - but I am also getting used to the EPS and it has some advantages that I would not have considered when I too was carrying my pitchfork about the loss of the hydraulic system...again, it is all based in context and relativity.

The fact that the M235 performs very closely to the 1M (which was a good % M3 underneath) is a nice achievement, considering it is heavier, has less power, tires that are skinny by comparison, etc...it says to me that the 2er's chassis is effing good. Really good. And that means there is a really high ceiling for the M2.
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      04-17-2014, 09:46 AM   #59
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I do not agree with the philosophy "We had to make room for the M2" I can't be sure if this is exactly how BMW sees it.
You have to make the product as good as it can be with the resources available and the budget every department in charge has for it. And obviously with the profit they expect for every unit at the Price planned for it.
If at the end, they managed to make a car that surpases the expectatives, like the M235i could've been, and menaces the M2, then it is an M Division problem to figure out how they will rise the bar even higher.
Is BMW afraid that the M division can't do that? Well, then there is a comfort zone problem in the M division.
Even if they made the M2 faster with more performance than the M4, and that is something menacing, then there is a problem of product planning.
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      04-17-2014, 10:29 AM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uponone76 View Post
Because the reviewer is a Subaru fan boy. He stated in another video that he owns three wrx wagons.

Now that in think about it, shouldn't that disqualify him to review cars?
U bet!
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      04-17-2014, 10:34 AM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PoloRl View Post
In the end, the CLA barely got a win over the M235i. Keeping in mind that the CLA45 is the top performer in the CLA class and the M235i isn't in the 2 series. Just imagine what a true M 2 series is going to be capable of... Now that's something to look forward to
that's correct...but the issue with the car comparisons and head-2-heads is that it has become a total marketing tool rather than a true evaluation...
I think they just want to compare 2 cars for the sake of making an episode to an extent that they are willing to compare apples with oranges...this comparison here wasn't exactly a same-class comparison IMO...
and the worst part at the end??? there was no verdict...the guy couldn't really decide which one was a better car!!!
My personal take from this clip was, the "real" track driver (who was testing both cars on the track), really enjoyed driving the 2-series vs the more powerful AMG. so that tells me something!!!!
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      04-17-2014, 12:19 PM   #62
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I owned an A45 Edition 1, will provide a comparison when I got my m235.
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      04-17-2014, 12:42 PM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manbnda View Post
I do not agree with the philosophy "We had to make room for the M2" I can't be sure if this is exactly how BMW sees it.
You have to make the product as good as it can be with the resources available and the budget every department in charge has for it. And obviously with the profit they expect for every unit at the Price planned for it.
If at the end, they managed to make a car that surpases the expectatives, like the M235i could've been, and menaces the M2, then it is an M Division problem to figure out how they will rise the bar even higher.
Is BMW afraid that the M division can't do that? Well, then there is a comfort zone problem in the M division.
Even if they made the M2 faster with more performance than the M4, and that is something menacing, then there is a problem of product planning.
I can't tell if you're a hopeless romanic, or hopelessly naive.

You can't run a company the size of BMW with the number of products that BMW produces and not organize your products with a set of constraints that accommodate market competition as well as alternatives within your own line up. Not if you want to stay in business, that is.
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      04-24-2014, 12:54 PM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by X6mac View Post
I don't understand this M235i vs CLA 'AMG' comparison. One car is developed by its flagship Motorsport engineering group and the other isn't.
I don't think that most reviewers care too much re their respective bloodlines. Both are new, small, entry-level cars with over 300hp, 30+mpg and sell for under $50k. Plus the 235i got breathed on by the M division. No, it's not an M2, but neither is it just a 228i with a 6. Still, it will be plenty fun to revisit this comparison when an M2 does come around.


Quote:
Originally Posted by dmboone25 View Post
...it says to me that the 2er's chassis is effing good. Really good. And that means there is a really high ceiling for the M2.
+1

A bad chassis can have a great motor, tires, brakes and *still* not be an excellent handling car.
Listen to Randy's 1st negative comment around a corner in the CLA…before Liebermann quickly cuts him off to talk about how sweet the motor is.

That's the part that is so encouraging to me re the M235i. That a DD that is so civil can be only a few tenths slower in a track setting. I think that's the "fun" part that Randy, myself and most reviewers remark about when driving one.

Not only does it give a great base chassis for any future M2, but it also provides a solid foundation for 235i owners to build upon. Tightening up some body roll, fattening up the tires, beefing up the brakes, adding a tune and dropping in an LSD and you could have a wicked little track rocket here…for ~15k. I think doing the above would smoke the hell out of the CLA…and look better doing it.
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      05-22-2014, 05:41 PM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuitedUp View Post
Honestly, the 2 series doesn't have a real classmate at this point.
I'd be interested to see a comparison between a loaded up M235i (including M Performance LSD, exhaust, electronic steering wheel, and brakes) against a base Cayman.
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