[dphjr]

M235i crash at the 'ring. RIP wheels.

[ABPReader]

.

[dphjr]

Originally Posted by jet_00

I hate to see that.
I hesitate to go on 11-12 October, but this kind of story do not really motivates me.

Do it! Just be smart about it. This guy clearly took the corner way too fast for a wet track.

[ABPReader]

.

[mike@x-ph.com]

[MrBimmerM235i]

[alexc93]

The car seemed to take that rear driver side hit really really well imo!!! Barely any damage for how hard he hit

[MrBimmerM235i]

Rear axel is fucked up...

[AUSf22]

[W///]

Originally Posted by jet_00

I hate to see that.
I hesitate to go on 11-12 October, but this kind of story do not really motivates me.

I went there later in Oct and it was OK, but you are really starting to push it when it comes to cool weather IMHO. I only got 3 out of 5 laps in before they closed the track due to accidents, and I was completely OK with that.

[sth519]

Originally Posted by jet_00

I was there with my old mazdaspeed3 and I didn't have any problems. The problem is that another driver can make a mistake and crash his car on mine. I don't know how insurance works in the US but here, when you are on the track they will not pay anything even if it is the fault of somebody else.

For tourist laps, the Nordschleife is not a race track but a derestricted single-lane toll road. Normal traffic regulations apply but it's not speed-limited. Insurance companies usually have to pay since it's a public road, so to speak, and not a racing event.

However, some insurance companies might try to refuse, saying it was intent or gross negligence. So expect a bit of trouble with them if you have a crash...

[ABPReader]

.

[sth519]

Of course it's problematic in Switzerland because if you're crashing at >130 km/h, you have definitely broken the speed limit (and thereby the law) at the time of the crash.

If you crash at >130 km/h in an unrestricted section of the autobahn, you might get partial blame (no matter if you were at fault) because 130 km/h is the "recommended maximum speed" for unrestricted sections.

It's all very complicated (as is everything in Germany). For example: Insurance contracts can vary a lot in what the insurer will say is gross negligence ("grobe Fahrlässigkeit"). The car I had before the M135i was a VW Scirocco, which was insured via VW's own insurance company (VVD). I've contacted them on the topic of tourist laps on the Nordschleife and the responses I got were either "I don't think that's covered" or "I don't have information about this" (great for a company that uses the Nordschleife as a marketing tool for that particular car, btw). Then they cited the usual passage about racing events not being covered, even though tourist laps, to my knowledge, don't fall under that category.

However, I crawled the web back then and found several threads discussing this, including many examples of accidents that have been covered by the insurers since normal traffic regulations (StVO in Germany) apply for tourist laps. Also, since it's a public (toll) road, all tourist cars MUST have insurance, see here.

TL;DR: I'm neither a lawyer not in the insurance business but as far as I know: If your crash during a tourist lap on the Nordschleife, your insurance might cover it but expect there to be some trouble.

[allthatisntnow]

Originally Posted by sth519

For tourist laps, the Nordschleife is not a race track but a derestricted single-lane toll road. Normal traffic regulations apply but it's not speed-limited. Insurance companies usually have to pay since it's a public road, so to speak, and not a racing event.

However, some insurance companies might try to refuse, saying it was intent or gross negligence. So expect a bit of trouble with them if you have a crash...

Most, if not all, insurance policies here (UK) have clauses specifically stating they do not cover you if your car goes on the nurburgring. Cant really blame them. Whilst its technically a public highway for tourist laps, they know people only go there for one reason. Not to mention the risk of being hit by others also goes up 10000%. Id advise getting proper track day cover for peace of mind.

[sth519]

Originally Posted by allthatisntnow

Most, if not all, insurance policies here (UK) have clauses specifically stating they do not cover you if your car goes on the nurburgring.

Interesting. I haven't seen such a clause in Germany yet, but I wouldn't be surprised if some companies are doing this here as well.

Speaking of car insurance in the UK: Whenever I hear about what car insurance is supposed to costs in the UK, I'm absolutely shocked. Is it really that expensive or are these just extreme cases? (e.g. thousands of pounds a year even for "moderate" performance cars)

Originally Posted by allthatisntnow

Id advise getting proper track day cover for peace of mind.

Good advice. I haven't seen that yet in the context of tourist laps, though.

[allthatisntnow]

Originally Posted by sth519

Interesting. I haven't seen such a clause in Germany yet, but I wouldn't be surprised if some companies are doing this here as well.

Speaking of car insurance in the UK: Whenever I hear about what car insurance is supposed to costs in the UK, I'm absolutely shocked. Is it really that expensive or are these just extreme cases? (e.g. thousands of pounds a year even for "moderate" performance cars)


Good advice. I haven't seen that yet in the context of tourist laps, though.

It really does depend more on the age of the driver then anything else. Driving record being a close second of course. When i first started driving at 17 i had a 1.4 litre mini that cost £3600 to insure for a year (needless to say these prices make you extra cautious so as not to price yourself off the road). Once you get over 25 things become more reasonable. My M235i costs around £450 per year fully comp to insure and thats still rather expensive in my eyes. Thats with over 7 years no claims too.

[sth519]

Originally Posted by allthatisntnow

It really does depend more on the age of the driver then anything else. Driving record being a close second of course. When i first started driving at 17 i had a 1.4 litre mini that cost £3600 to insure for a year (needless to say these prices make you extra cautious so as not to price yourself off the road). Once you get over 25 things become more reasonable. My M235i costs around £450 per year fully comp to insure and thats still rather expensive in my eyes. Thats with over 7 years no claims too.

Interesting. 25 is where insurance gets a lot cheaper here as well (it used to be 23), but fully comprehensive insurance for the Mini would cost around half as much in Germany for a new driver.
For the M235i it's about the same as what you pay, probably a bit more, depending on the details of the contract.

[sorry for going off-topic]

[metrickid]

Originally Posted by alexc93

The car seemed to take that rear driver side hit really really well imo!!! Barely any damage for how hard he hit

A part from the wheel not even pointing in the correct direction anymore...

[ABPReader]

.

[BrakeCheck]

These make me sad. lol

[W///]

Originally Posted by jet_00

[u2b]https://youtu.be/e9K_JBwrsAk[/u2b]

If the Youtube integration doesn't work, here is the direct link

That's what you get for trying to go fast on a wet track.