[IndyRed128i]

Hey all,

So long story short, about 8 months ago I purchased an auction 2016 228XI. When I purchased it, I was aware that it had some previous hail damage and body work, but was under the impression that my warranty would still cover anything not affected by this.

Yesterday, out of the blue, I get the message on idrive:
*Left rear turn signal malfunction
*Left reverse light malfunction
*Two stage brake light malfunction

Upon taking the vehicle in to BMW and having it taken apart, I am informed by my service advisor that because the car had previously been resprayed, and there was some bondo visible on the back side of the light that this would not be covered. At this point, they are saying that both the wire, and the entire lighting assembly need to be replaced.

I feel that this is unreasonable because there is no evidence that any go this body work caused the light to fail, and furthermore, it concerns me that they will try to deny further work for these reasons.

So at this point, my 3 options are:

1.Try taking the car to another dealership
2. Open an appeal with BMW Warranty
3. Suck it up and pay the money out of pocket(not sure what the total for this repair will be)

What do you guys think?

[WolfGTI]

Can you find out where it had the repair? If so was it a BMW approved repair facility?

[amw896]

First try the service manager and general manager of the dealer. If no success, then escalate to corporate. Don't lash out, just express your disappointment.

They might not be able to help if it was done by some yokel shop that is not approved by bmw.

[IndyRed128i]

They might not be able to help if it was done by some yokel shop that is not approved by bmw.[/QUOTE]

Unfortunately it appears that it was, ill come out and say that. Buying this car has been a lesson to me to stick with buying directly from BMW and not cheaping out going the auction route(but that is another story for another day)

That being said, I can't see how these repairs would affect that tail light or cause it to fail, especially because its the original, and it was hail damage, not a collision.

On a side note, does anyone have a ballpark idea of what this will set me back if I have to pay out of pocket?

[3rdcoast228i]

Do you have pictures of the bondo area? Sounds like there is a significant amount of bondo to me. I doubt a BMW approved facility would use much bondo beyond very small dent repair.

Sounds like the car was also rear ended beside just the hail damage.

[Kolyan2k]

They can't deny warranty based just on the fact that car was repaired. They should and probably do have proof that previous repairs caused damage

I had fender fixed due to scratch and body shop broke headlight spray thing, dealer told me it's not their fault and body shop ended up paying for all fixes

[BEM-S4]

From what you've described BMW shouldn't be responsible for the repair, but the shop who did the work should warranty what they did to the car. Assuming it's a reputable shop and everything was done above board.

Sucks but buying used with known damage always comes with some risk.

[IndyRed128i]

Originally Posted by BEM-S4

From what you've described BMW shouldn't be responsible for the repair, but the shop who did the work should warranty what they did to the car. Assuming it's a reputable shop and everything was done above board.

Sucks but buying used with known damage always comes with some risk.

If the light was involved I would agree, but i'm failing to understand how the respray and hail damage led to the failure of this part.

[BEM-S4]

Originally Posted by IndyRed128i

If the light was involved I would agree, but i'm failing to understand how the respray and hail damage led to the failure of this part.

Well since there's bondo in the lamp - it may not have been repaired per se but could have been messed up when they pulled the car apart and put it back together.

I'm not saying 100% it was the body shop's fault no way to tell for sure, but there's some circumstantial evidence there. Like if my bumper was repaired then one of my parking sensors quit working, I'd bet the wiring or camera got jacked up during the bumper fix process.

I am 100% sure either bmw or the body shop SHOULD pay for the repair - but since you didn't have the work done originally you've got a challenge there unfortunately.

Good luck.

[IndyRed128i]

Originally Posted by sunil_linus

Long story short, the dealer won't cover this - the circumstantial evidence of a prior repair will sink you. Other posts already summarized the reasons why you're SOL, as far as dealer support.. And in all fairness, I don't believe they are being unreasonable, even if your are genuinely in the right..

The good news is that in the grand scheme of things, these taillights are not really that expensive; they go for less than $200 brand new per side or $60 used. Ebay classified is your friend.

I would also pick up some silicate packs and throw them inside the taillight while you're at it; this is guaranteed to absorb any moisture, - a known issue with the pre-LCI taillights.. Best of luck!

Appreciate the honesty! I dont have much experience dealing with dealerships on this kind of stuff but im glad there are people here who do! I may try taking the car to a second dealer just for good measure but its probably a waste of time.


Ill check into the DIY option you mentioned as well. Any idea what a dealer would probably charge for parts and labor?

[M235SDCA]

Have you tried to pull the light out to check the connection? There are just two screws that hold it in and you pull it out. There is really nothing complex in the tail light to go wrong. Also the multiple failures at once sounds like a connector fell out. All of the lights in the one tail aren't working?

[IndyRed128i]

Originally Posted by M235SDCA

Have you tried to pull the light out to check the connection? There are just two screws that hold it in and you pull it out. There is really nothing complex in the tail light to go wrong. Also the multiple failures at once sounds like a connector fell out. All of the lights in the one tail aren't working?

Yea, it was working fine, then I got the error message, then it went away for a day, now the light only comes on dim and the turn signal blinks fast on the left side.

I have not done that, but the dealer took the whole thing apart, and they are claiming both the light and the cable require replacement. How both of those items can fail that quickly is not something im aware of...

[M235SDCA]

Originally Posted by IndyRed128i

Yea, it was working fine, then I got the error message, then it went away for a day, now the light only comes on dim and the turn signal blinks fast on the left side.

I have not done that, but the dealer took the whole thing apart, and they are claiming both the light and the cable require replacement. How both of those items can fail that quickly is not something im aware of...

Yes very odd to have two failures at once. If you happen to open up the light, there just isn't much to go wrong. All that is in there is metal from the sockets to the connector.

[IndyRed128i]

So I took the car into the dealership again this morning and they are quoting me:

$275.00 for the light +$173 in labor
$32.99 for the cable(according to them that is bad too), plus $320 in labor for that.

Total of $867.07 for this job. Does that seem high to anyone else?

**I am seriously questioning whether both of these parts really need to be replaced or if the dealership wants to maximize the bill**

[simsimma777]

For what it's worth, I had a similar failure to my right tail light just last month which was replaced under warranty.

On my invoice, the following parts were fixed/replaced:
-Replace right bulb support and retrofit ground cable
-Repair cable tail lights
-Bulb socket, right
-Description: Replace right bulb support and retrofit ground cable (main work) as per SIB 630517 due to burnt connector

I even experienced the same thing as you where the tail-light worked briefly after the initial error messages, before failing again, so the issue was not the bulb. I even had the one dim bulb and the fast turn signal thing. Also it's a 2016 228i so essentially the same car as you.

I highly doubt the body work had anything to do with it, and sounds like an excuse to deny a warranty claim. I would suggest you go to the dealership and ask to speak to the GM and mention the SIB code above or try a different dealer.

[IndyRed128i]

Originally Posted by ballinisahabit

For what it's worth, I had a similar failure to my right tail light just last month which was replaced under warranty.

On my invoice, the following parts were fixed/replaced:
-Replace right bulb support and retrofit ground cable
-Repair cable tail lights
-Bulb socket, right
-Description: Replace right bulb support and retrofit ground cable (main work) as per SIB 630517 due to burnt connector

I even experienced the same thing as you where the tail-light worked briefly after the initial error messages, before failing again, so the issue was not the bulb. I even had the one dim bulb and the fast turn signal thing. Also it's a 2016 228i so essentially the same car as you.

I highly doubt the body work had anything to do with it, and sounds like an excuse to deny a warranty claim. I would suggest you go to the dealership and ask to speak to the GM and mention the SIB code above or try a different dealer.

Really appreciate the information. Mine also has one dim bulb and the fast signal, so it sounds like this may be a weak point with this year/model of car. I get that the body work is a "credible" excuse they can use, but especially since I'm not the only person to have this issue, it makes the body work theory even less plausible.

On a side note, immediately after denying the warranty on Saturday, the advisor was pushing me VERY hard to call my insurance company and make a claim saying, "they will take care of this, as well as anything else they find on your car"

Good thing I work in insurance and understand thats not how it works.

[3rdcoast228i]

Originally Posted by IndyRed128i

So I took the car into the dealership again this morning and they are quoting me:

$275.00 for the light +$173 in labor
$32.99 for the cable(according to them that is bad too), plus $320 in labor for that.

Total of $867.07 for this job. Does that seem high to anyone else?

**I am seriously questioning whether both of these parts really need to be replaced or if the dealership wants to maximize the bill**

You have to realize that BMW is going to charge $100+ an hour for labor and they normally charge higher for their parts than what you can get them for if you shop around.

If I was in your situation I would definitely do more trouble shooting.

I would just change the bulbs first if that's an option, I don't really know but I'm assuming that you can change them.

Then I would get a voltmeter and compare the voltages on both the left and right side and see if they are the same. Check for ground too, if the cable has a cut in it it could be going to ground. (Check at the bulb and connectors separately and together if possible) You will probably need help with that part because you need someone to hit the breaks and change the turn signals from left to right.

In my opinion, if the cable is bad the tail light isn't going to work right so you may be paying for a tail light you really don't need. Change the cable, especially if the voltage test reveal something a little off.

Last step would be to change the most expensive part, the tail light. You should be good at this point but... if for some reason it's not then your problem is even farther upstream. Not likely but it could be something else.

I'm just saying that's what I would do before dropping $800+ on one tail light.

[BEM-S4]

One other point - yes a tail light is important but it's not THAT important. You could probably get someone to do a perfectly fine wire repair and not replace all the wiring harness. It wouldn't be the BMW-approved super expensive option, but it should get the job done.

It's not like an airbag where if the thing fails you could die. It's a light bulb.

[simsimma777]

Originally Posted by IndyRed128i

Really appreciate the information. Mine also has one dim bulb and the fast signal, so it sounds like this may be a weak point with this year/model of car. I get that the body work is a "credible" excuse they can use, but especially since I'm not the only person to have this issue, it makes the body work theory even less plausible.

On a side note, immediately after denying the warranty on Saturday, the advisor was pushing me VERY hard to call my insurance company and make a claim saying, "they will take care of this, as well as anything else they find on your car"

Good thing I work in insurance and understand thats not how it works.

No worries and good luck!

I also found this other thread with a slightly different SIB so it seems others with our model year are having the same problem: http://www.2addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1425441

Worst comes to worst, you at least have some guidance on what might need repair.

The insurance bit is a bit weird. I think that you can go back to your insurance company to fix something if the original repair wasn't done right (under the same claim), but highly doubt you can go after a previous owners insurance for the same.

[IndyRed128i]

Originally Posted by BEM-S4

One other point - yes a tail light is important but it's not THAT important. You could probably get someone to do a perfectly fine wire repair and not replace all the wiring harness. It wouldn't be the BMW-approved super expensive option, but it should get the job done.

It's not like an airbag where if the thing fails you could die. It's a light bulb.

Good point!

[Poochie]

IndyRed128i


I don't think anything is wrong with your taillights; there is really nothing mechanically that could break in the tail assembly to cause an error, maybe rust or corrosion but not in a fairly new model car - and you would physically see that.

In November 2015, they revised the F22 tail light assembly harness and added an additional ground wire. Anyone doing the LCI replacement can confirm this, just do a search. The ground wire is what I suspect that is your problem. I would buy the revised cable first, I'm positive that will solve your issue.

[Poochie]

Order these two cables, have a local shop replace them and you'll be good to go.