[doccyber]

Originally Posted by pikcachu

Well in a few years there will be no autos either.... electric 1 gear

Now. I am drawing the line on that.

[capo180]

Glad to have a manual 235i.. I was planning to keep her around for a while anyways. Next car should be a manual as well though. I might have to go Porsche or... American.

[esp260]

Currently leasing my 228i 6mt. This news is making me consider buying my car out at the end of the lease...

[CAMOETO]

Originally Posted by snaketh

That's not the point. I don't know why these threads always turn into a pissing match between AT and MT folks. BMW is currently giving the customer the choice. Having less choice is bad. I hate autos but I wouldn't want BMW to take that option away from the buyers who want one.

Originally Posted by pikcachu

At the end of the day BMW sells cars to make money.... if they can't make money cause fewer people buy manuals and it costs too much to homologate, then they won't make them....

They answer to shareholders not purists....

snaketh - That's not the point I was trying to make. Both the auto and the manual are great in their own ways. I would own both in a perfect world. All I'm saying is that the auto has become so good in recent BMWs, it's making the choice to go with a manual harder and harder, even for an enthusiast. BMW has also done very little to improve the manual in the last 10+ years compared to the auto. They should have done more to entice the enthusiast crowd. Take GM for example, they put a 7-speed in the C7 'vette.

As pikcachu mentioned above, if the take rate on the manual is very low and decreasing, it's becomes difficult to justify the business decision to keep developing and certifying the manual.

[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by CAMOETO

As pikcachu mentioned above, if the take rate on the manual is very low and decreasing, it's becomes difficult to justify the business decision to keep developing and certifying the manual.

From a pure short-term accounting/financial analysis perspective, your point is valid. But, for some brands with very distinct positionings, the wiser and more strategic perspective is to maintain high image products for the most enthusiastic, high-net-promoter-score folks who are often looked to by non-enthusiasts as role models for brand selections. By definition, this is usually a small percentage of the mix...the proverbial "tip of the spear". It is easy to read the emotion in this thread which represents this small, but disproportionately vocal group of "ultimate driving machine" devotees. BMW may find they save the costs of impact and emissions testing of a powertrain family, and some inventory mix management, by deleting the MT, but the shortsightedness of losing these "influencers" as well as the potential linked volume (additional sales of SAV, larger sedans, etc. for family) may well wipe out the short term cost savings. I've seen this kind of short-term, financial myopia in my pre-retirement career at another auto company, and realize this is the reflexive reaction from many C Suite execs, but every once in a while, another "Bob Lutz" shows up to share some wisdom. Sounds like, right about now, BMW could use another "Maximum Bob" in their ranks.

[BEM-S4]

Backing this up a bit and going very high level, assuming BMW does need to rationalize it's portfolio - there's a lot of low hanging fruit. Do they really need a 340 GT when something like the X4 exists and for all intents and purposes serving the same need? Bear with me here. If you were planning to wipe the slate clean and just start from scratch, how many cars survive for today's needs? Forgetting the different flavors of 30/40/M just from a platform perspective you would keep the 3/5/7. Keep all the X stuff. Do you need 2/4/6 convertibles? Coupes? I could easily see a future state where (using current model designations which would change) where for coupe you have 2 and 6, convertible 2 and 6, sedans 3,5 and 7. Then the X stuff, and that's it. Kill the Zs entirely.

Here's where this matters for this conversation. If you look across BMW's ENTIRE current portfolio, and are only going to offer manual in one car, isn't the 2 the best choice? Yes there is interest in other areas, but if you are purely looking at the single car and segment that would most benefit/enjoy/whatever and actually order a manual transmission wouldn't it be the most "pure" drivers car?

Maybe kind of long winded explanation but I don't see then ditching the manual here and keeping it elsewhere. Not that I would be happy about what I have outlined above, but a compelling argument can be made that it's a wise move on BMW's part.

So said another way, I think if they keep a manual in the lineup at all the 2-series would be the most logical place and the car that would benefit from having it the most. Since they're ditching it here, I could see its days being numbered across the board.

[BEM-S4]

We are really living in a strange new world, guys. First no manual BMW, now this? Apparently Audi will start offering select vehicles in RWD.

http://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars...r-wheel-drive/

[CAMOETO]

Originally Posted by BEM-S4

We are really living in a strange new world, guys. First no manual BMW, now this? Apparently Audi will start offering select vehicles in RWD.

http://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars...r-wheel-drive/

I don't know if RWD would make up for the buggy virtual cockpit. That fail is on the level of the original Ford Mytouch...

[rightrudder]

Originally Posted by CAMOETO

I don't know if RWD would make up for the buggy virtual cockpit. That fail is on the level of the original Ford Mytouch...

I'm with you on that. Really hate the video-game gauges, even if the display did prove to be reliable! Maybe Audi can throw in a Nintendo controller to sweeten the deal.

[ExZHP]

You'd be surprised (or not) by the number of people here in Bay Area who are seriously talking about the future without human-driven cars altogether. And not a very distant future, as in, 10-20 years.

[Motivate]

I think if BMW really cancels manuals, they will lose that image of being the sporty luxury brand and just become one of the many luxury family car brands out there.

If they feel like they must cancel manuals, I hope they make a clear announcement ahead of time so the enthusiasts that were maybe waiting for the next gen would jump in and buy now instead.

I'm just surprised that BMW execs are pushing the company into the direction of Audi and Benz instead of continuing to be that cool sporty brand of the luxury sector. Many people are looking to buy BMWs now because Audi basically killed off their manual availability.

[WolfGTI]

Not completely dead yet

http://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars...ission-option/

[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by WolfGTI

Not completely dead yet

http://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars...ission-option/

Aha! A hypothetical example from a Finance guy....so typical.

We can only hope the Program Managers and Product Planners have a better understanding of the brand's positioning.

[BEM-S4]

Originally Posted by WolfGTI

Not completely dead yet

http://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars...ission-option/

That's what I assumed as well. There would be no reason to quit selling the one they've already spent the $ to certify here.

[Dylan86]

What others have said seems to be the case here, too. I can almost get full value today (what I paid 1 year ago on an exec. lease/ CPO car) for my car with a private sale, based on models with similar/less features being listed at. The 6MT RWD cars are definitely priced higher in both cases of dealer or private ads. Not expecting that to hold up, but for a 2-3 year old car, it's better than what I've tanked in the past..

Noted that the x-drive/8AT cars are going for really good prices, though, about $5k less than the average MT car!

[ExZHP]

I also agree that BMW is not going to lose any sales over this. Majority of people buying BMWs in America are not enthusiasts as may seem on this forum, but brand-conscious people with a little but of cash to spear and a desire for a reliable import with a reputation. You can call them middle to upper-middle class of modern day America, Europe and even Asia. Their influencers are not race track drivers but whatever photogenic TV models are used in BMW ads at a given time. This is not a new trend, this was to be expected. First, a BMW SUV; then, crossovers; then, 4-door coupes, then the i4, and quite logically, now the MT-delete. I just hope they keep the M-line in 10 years to come.

[morphomeman]

Ferrari seems to be doing OK without an available manual transmission.
In the upper echelons, only Porsche offers a stick.
Not that I feel no pangs for lost time but sometimes the memory is sweeter than the reality ever was.

[Viffermike]

Originally Posted by snaketh

That's not the point. I don't know why these threads always turn into a pissing match between AT and MT folks. BMW is currently giving the customer the choice. Having less choice is bad. I hate autos but I wouldn't want BMW to take that option away from the buyers who want one.

Yes it is the point -- very much the point. The reason manuals are disappearing is because there are progressively fewer and fewer sound reasons to opt for one. Consumers who consider a manual already tend to be better educated about all of this than is typical. That this poster and I have opted for the auto -- and I owned nothing but manuals, including an SUV, until my last two cars -- is endemic of this effect.

A manufacturer is only going to make something if it proves profitable -- and I don't necessarily mean money -- in some way. Manuals in all but the sportiest of cars are not profitable now -- not for BMW or nearly any other manufacturer. The only sound reason to opt for one these days is for that 'feel' and, in some cases, simplicity of drivetrain. Nothing else makes sense.

[3.0L]

Originally Posted by pikcachu

At the end of the day BMW sells cars to make money.... if they can't make money cause fewer people buy manuals and it costs too much to homologate, then they won't make them....

They answer to shareholders not purists....

In not too many years, all we will have is a smartphone and and 2 arthritic thumbs. We not only won't know how to use a manual transmission, we also will not know how to speak or make eye contact. But, the shareholders will be happy.

[BEM-S4]

Originally Posted by 3.0L

In not too many years, all we will have is a smartphone and and 2 arthritic thumbs.

You lack vision, my friend. In the future we will have no need for thumbs to operate our smart phones.

[3.0L]

Originally Posted by BEM-S4

You lack vision, my friend. In the future we will have no need for thumbs to operate our smart phones.

Ha! We probably won't need a brain, either.

[BEM-S4]

Originally Posted by 3.0L

Ha! We probably won't need a brain, either.

Apt company name. Humans powering machines. The age of the Matrix has already begun.

https://www.matrixindustries.com