[nagisak31]

Originally Posted by jbenington86

Expectations of some people are not reasonable

Sums up my thoughts pretty much.

[pikcachu]

Originally Posted by nagisak31

Sums up my thoughts pretty much.

exactly.... they are built to appeal to most people.... you can always update your suspension if you want it even stiffer but they are already giving you 2 suspension settings...

else buy a Cayman or wait for an M2

[chaswyck1]

Originally Posted by jbenington86

You want something stiffer? Spend some coin and get something stiffer just like everyone else. As long as the 2 series is putting up corner stats greater or equal to cars in the equivalent price range (luxury factored in) it doesn't matter much. It feels soft because people complain about the harsh ride etc. Then when BMW makes a soft ride that performs well then people complain about it being soft....so buy the car that handles well and make it stiffer on your own money. It's almost a certainty that BMW gave everyone the ECO pro, Comfort, Sport, and Sport+ option due to not being able to satisfy everyone but still people bitch because once they start the car they then have to choose what they want....Such a pain to be able to choose your driving preference or mood............


Secondly every post I make somehow you seem to make it your mission to change what "I want" or my opinion on "my" options and how they pertain to "me" but believe me that won't happen. You are "content" with your car well I would not have been "content" with a 228i. Especially since I only had to pay $2,300 for so many extras that are only included on the 228i with additional options I never wanted in the first place. The 228i packages have M235i standard equipment mixed in throughout.

Every time I look on the forums you somehow try to put down the M235i... In fact you are giving me and my opinions on the M235i more grief than any of the 135i guys ever gave me when I bought my 128i. I see how hating the M235i can be so tempting because in so many ways it was the right decision for you. If it be money or you never get to use the real potential of the car or the stats are so close to the M235i etc. For me the 228i was not right because well the specs were not terribly far off from the 128i which is in my drive way already.

WOW! What are you talking about??? I don't hate the 235 at all (or any other car for that matter) and I'm not trying to change your opinion about anything. Sorry you feel this way but I don't know where it's coming from, unless you expect my opinions to always be the same as yours.

[dmboone25]

Originally Posted by jbenington86

Expectations of some people are not reasonable

Wait, that a car billed as being faster than a 1M has worse suspension than both my 135s ?

[dmboone25]

Originally Posted by red-sauerkraut

So you like the n54 the best then?

It's the best non-S spec engine I've had in a BMW. In terms of performance and urgency, yes.

[jbenington86]

Originally Posted by dmboone25

Wait, that a car billed as being faster than a 1M has worse suspension than both my 135s ?

Well according to skidpad results (of course these may vary depending on where you look) the M235i attains higher G ratings....so you must be referring to personal feel and preference.

[jbenington86]

Originally Posted by dmboone25

It's the best non-S spec engine I've had in a BMW. In terms of performance and urgency, yes.

I would of chose an N54 over an N55 as well.

[BMW335iOn18s]

If i can have a softer car with better performance, why would i want a harsh ride? especially on PA's crumbling and pothole ridden roads?

[M2ALEX]

For the past 9 years my s2000 has been on the track 18 times (avg about 2 times a year) and that is less than 1%. For those 99.5% I want my car to be as daily friendly as possible.

[mvallido]

Originally Posted by M2ALEX

For the past 9 years my s2000 has been on the track 18 times (avg about 2 times a year) and that is less than 1%. For those 99.5% I want my car to be as daily friendly as possible.

Agreed.

[dmboone25]

Originally Posted by jbenington86

Well according to skidpad results (of course these may vary depending on where you look) the M235i attains higher G ratings....so you must be referring to personal feel and preference.

I am more inclined to think that comes down to better tires, but I am obviously not an expert. I also am guessing that the comparisons of the 235 and 135 that have been conducted are sans N54 engine on the E82 front, but I don't know that for sure.

I should have been more clear - yes, the overall reference is based upon my personal experiences with an N54 135, N55 135, and now N55 235. Of the three, I liked the N54 135 the best, and the 235 the least. It is my 5th BMW, and quite frankly, my least favorite. Why, you might ask? The main reason comes down to the overall lack of excitement in the 2er. It just doesn't feel that fast, that involved, or that good. I know it has received great reviews - I am not saying it is a bad car...just that it is not what I expected it to be.

For example, my buddy here at work (and on the forum as CHack) has a 2008 N54 135, same as the one I had. I wrote a thread about having buyer's remorse for the 235 after driving our cars back to back several times - the thread is on here somewhere. We have also let other guys in the office drive the cars back to back and the response is always the same - the 2er is prettier, more comfortable, and "smoother"...and the 1er is more powerful, tighter, and more exciting.

That isn't to say that there's any proof there or anything of the sort, but the general consensus from folks who aren't "into it" like I am, at least in my experience, is that the new car is better looking, smoother, and softer. One of these guys even said that the 1er was a little scary. I loved that comment. I want a car that, as JC likes to say, puts it's hand down the front of my pants and has a little go from time to time. The 235 just doesn't do it for me. Oh sure, it's nice to look at, is a quality product, and is a very good car...but it's not scary, or involved, or electric. Just my opinion of course...so I am hoping for more out of the M2.

[dmboone25]

Originally Posted by pikcachu

exactly.... they are built to appeal to most people.... you can always update your suspension if you want it even stiffer but they are already giving you 2 suspension settings...

else buy a Cayman or wait for an M2

My humble opinion, but there is no appreciable difference when you put the car in Sport +. The exhaust gets a little louder, but floatyness persists on the ride side.

Also my humble opinion, but I think it's a little, um, ironic to think that my best option is to spend more moola on the suspension of an M performance model...

I didn't have the option of waiting for the M2, based on the timing of the termination of my 135 lease. I took delivery of the 235 sight unseen and having never driven one, back in early March of last year...ahhhhh the good and bad nature of being a first adopter. I am pretty sure that a 45 minute test drive would have been enough for me to know that this car wasn't for me.

[jbenington86]

Originally Posted by dmboone25

I am more inclined to think that comes down to better tires, but I am obviously not an expert.

I should have been more clear - yes, the overall reference is based upon my personal experiences with an N54 135, N55 135, and now N55 235. Of the three, I liked the N54 135 the best, and the 235 the least.

For example, my buddy here at work (and on the forum as CHack) has a 2008 N54 135, same as the one I had. I wrote a thread about having buyer's remorse for the 235 after driving our cars back to back several times - the thread is on here somewhere.

Yeah never thought of the better rubber that has come out in the last few years. Probably nullifies any extra grip in the turns.

Too bad BMW got rid of the N54.

I never actually got to drive a 135i only a 335i with the N54 and JB4. Never got to go out and have 2 much fun in it because it wasn't mine. Didn't need to give anyone a reason to blame me if something happened to their car.

[Lucky13]

Search the web and show me one test that shows a 135 faster than an M235, just one. I've looked at old Car and Driver, Motor Trend, Automobile and Googled 0-60 times BMW and it shows the M235 faster than the 135is. Yes I own an N54 in my son's 335 convertible. Just because something doesn't feel as fast is totally meaningless. There are many, many test results showing an M235 faster than an 135 N54.

[NYHoustonman]

Originally Posted by Lucky13

Search the web and show me one test that shows a 135 faster than an M235, just one. I've looked at old Car and Driver, Motor Trend, Automobile and Googled 0-60 times BMW and it shows the M235 faster than the 135is. Yes I own an N54 in my son's 335 convertible. Just because something doesn't feel as fast is totally meaningless. There are many, many test results showing an M235 faster than an 135 N54.

Again, not to harp on this, but tires. You simply cannot compare the two. It's awesome that BMW gave the M235i the tire setup (non-RFT, Pilot Super Sports, 225 width front) that the 135i deserved all along, but that's an easy upgrade to make.

I love the M235i, and if BMW had offered it alongside the 135i I absolutely would have gone that route, but they really neutered the 135i with its stock tire setup.

[Vervain]

Originally Posted by Lucky13

Search the web and show me one test that shows a 135 faster than an M235, just one. I've looked at old Car and Driver, Motor Trend, Automobile and Googled 0-60 times BMW and it shows the M235 faster than the 135is. Yes I own an N54 in my son's 335 convertible. Just because something doesn't feel as fast is totally meaningless. There are many, many test results showing an M235 faster than an 135 N54.

That's what I've been thinking too..

[bladeomatic]

Originally Posted by dmboone25

I am more inclined to think that comes down to better tires.

Does it matter why, if it's better?

Originally Posted by dmboone25

I liked the N54 135 the best, and the 235 the least. It just doesn't feel that fast, that involved, or that good. I know it has received great reviews - I am not saying it is a bad car...just that it is not what I expected it to be.

Hmmm...Not that good, but not a bad car. You are indeed a man torn. :-)

There are at least 2 camps of bimmer users. Luxury and enthusiasts. The luxury folks buy about 85% of all BMW's, the "enthusiasts" the remaining 15%. Hint: This entire online community is filled almost exclusively with the latter.

Heck, look at every model of BMW and ask if it's predecessor wasn't more "engaging" (3 series, 5 series, M3, etc.). Electric steering, turbos, mpg, airbags and computers are all taking their toll on the "stripped down" car models of yesteryear.

Originally Posted by dmboone25

the general consensus from folks who aren't "into it" like I am

Translation: For the people that don't think like me.
That's the 85%. Nothing wrong with that, but you have to see that that's where the brand has gone...and has to go to stay alive.

I get that the purists like yourself want something that's louder, rougher, bumpier and more "connected" feeling. Cars like that are fun to drive. It's just that most folks need a daily driver and these enthusiast "no-compromise" traits don't fit their needs as well.

By virtually all accounts, my M235i is faster, better-looking, roomier, has better quality interior, better brakes, gets better gas mileage, has a more comfortable ride and gets around a track faster than a 135i. Does a 135i feel a little bit more raw? Certainly.

But the reason that the M235i is getting so much press, is that it does so many things so well, without too many compromises to either side.

[3.0L]

Originally Posted by dmboone25

ECO Pro = near death experience the three times I've tried it.

It's like adding a huge turbo that doesn't decide to wake up unitl about 4k RPM...you push the gas pedal and its nothing....nothing...nothing...oh ok, I guess I will work now.

Hahahaha, I can relate. I've used the ECO mode once while on a long trip on the interstate. Haven't used ECO since, and I still see up to 34 MPG on the freeway while cruising at 75 to 85 in the Comfort mode. So I'm thinking, why bother with ECO... it just doesn't seem to add much fuel mileage improvement. All it does is make the car more like a Prius.

[chaswyck1]

I agree with everything you said about the 85% and the 15% and the fact that if BMW is to survive they have to satisfy the 85%. What they've done, and it's no small feat, is to create a car that should satisfy both because throttle response and suspension can be selected. For the 85% there is Comfort mode (and maybe even Eco Pro) and for the enthusiast there is Sport and Sport+. The only point I've been making in this thread is that if they're going to make one car that fits everybody's desire for comfort and sportiness, why not give the Sport mode an even tighter suspension if the desires of the 85% have already been met? If one doesn't like the tight suspension and finds the ride jarring or uncomfortable, the solution is simple - don't press the button. The car defaults to the 85%. Having said that, the car is very fun to drive in Sport as it is. It's just that some of the 15% would rather have an even tighter suspension.

Originally Posted by bladeomatic

Does it matter why, if it's better?



Hmmm...Not that good, but not a bad car. You are indeed a man torn. :-)

There are at least 2 camps of bimmer users. Luxury and enthusiasts. The luxury folks buy about 85% of all BMW's, the "enthusiasts" the remaining 15%. Hint: This entire online community is filled almost exclusively with the latter.

Heck, look at every model of BMW and ask if it's predecessor wasn't more "engaging" (3 series, 5 series, M3, etc.). Electric steering, turbos, mpg, airbags and computers are all taking their toll on the "stripped down" car models of yesteryear.



Translation: For the people that don't think like me.
That's the 85%. Nothing wrong with that, but you have to see that that's where the brand has gone...and has to go to stay alive.

I get that the purists like yourself want something that's louder, rougher, bumpier and more "connected" feeling. Cars like that are fun to drive. It's just that most folks need a daily driver and these enthusiast "no-compromise" traits don't fit their needs as well.

By virtually all accounts, my M235i is faster, better-looking, roomier, has better quality interior, better brakes, gets better gas mileage, has a more comfortable ride and gets around a track faster than a 135i. Does a 135i feel a little bit more raw? Certainly.

But the reason that the M235i is getting so much press, is that it does so many things so well, without too many compromises to either side.

[CC]

I paid to get out of my 135i lease a year early because the suspension was too firm, even with 17" winters. I would have liked the 235i to be even smoother over rough roads.

[chaswyck1]

Originally Posted by CC

I paid to get out of my 135i lease a year early because the suspension was too firm, even with 17" winters. I would have liked the 235i to be even smoother over rough roads.

There ya go. To each his own. Isn't that what the button is all about?

[dmboone25]

Originally Posted by CC

I paid to get out of my 135i lease a year early because the suspension was too firm, even with 17" winters. I would have liked the 235i to be even smoother over rough roads.

You had winters in DFW ?

The roads here are smooth enough. They just seem incapable of building flat roads.