[advantage20]

Originally Posted by Propagator

SCOTT26, I get that it is (a small part of) your job to spin and defend whatever your employer does on this board. But does it ever occur to you that, when there is such an overwhelmingly negative reaction from the online enthusiasts community, simply posting another one of your standard German-marketing-dribble-google-translated-to-English-sounding nonsense is really not going to 1. convince anybody who doesn't already like it and 2. make your employer look good?

I get why BMW wants to do this car. After all, it's not like there is a more purist luxury car company that people on this board can just jump to. Besides, the enthusiast community is only a small piece of your customer base.

But you can't deny that BMW, through the enormous sales success of the last decade, has been benefiting from its image as an uncompromising, performance oriented brand. Just because most Porsche owners never take their cars to the track does not mean that they don't care about the IDEA of driving something that is supposed to be a purist enthusiast car. Likewise, a typical 5 series owner may not be what you would call an enthusiast, but I would bet that he likes the idea of owning a car that people that know a lot more about cars than he does think is really cool. Enthusiasts community might be a small minority, but it is also one that, in the long run, has an out-sized influence on your brand image.

Now, can anyone honestly say that even if BMW was building FWD cars like this MPV throughout the 70's and 80's, it would still have the same brand image as it does now? Of course not. So essentially BMW is using up, rather than building up, its brand equity, at least in so far as it being a company that makes the Ultimate Driving Machines.

And I guess that's ok. It's clear that BMW wants to be what Mercedes should have been, the most dominant mainstream luxury car maker. And I'm sure that makes perfect business sense. But don't expect the enthusiast community to go along with it without a lot of bitching and moaning, especially when BMW doesn't even have the decency to not name this mini-mini-van a 2 series.

Really, people at BMW HAD TO know that this nomenclature would be met with ridicule from people that know enough about cars, and especially BMW. The clear message is that they don't really care. BMW not only had to do an MPV, but they had to name it a 2 series, because, why? Most likely so that it won't have to be renamed when the entire 2 series line up turn into FWD in ~5 years. But in the mean time, do expect a lot of ridicule from the small but vocal portion of your customer base, because frankly, it is pretty hilarious what BMW did here.

[cc3]

I think BMW is gradually forgetting its roots in favour of a volume war with Audi and. Mercedes. I read today Audi is to introduce 11 new models by the end of the decade. Each one is trying to find a part of the market they don't currently serve just to shift volume following a massive investment in factory capacity. Good news for jobs in those areas where they build the factories but major dilution of brand values. In reality calling this Active Tourer a 2 is deliberate as gives the impression of being better than a 1. They will shift 100000 which will dwarf the Coupe. Yes they want to sell the coupe but probably BMW are not too concerned if they upset the enthusiasts as plenty more money to be made from premium pricing the Active Tourer by calling it a 2.

[lasovan]

Good words by Propagator and advantage20, I must say! IMO the only body style that BMW could still slot into their even number named series is a MB CLS-style shooting brake that somehow can be understood as a touring version of respective GCs. Nothing else, let alone an MPV!

[lasovan]

There could be another explanation for the 2-series-mess that we're facing. As we know BMW is planning a mini-sized variant with the roundel on the nose (that presumably will get its own MPV variat too), but below 1 there are no more numbers! So what to do? You can't call a car the 0 or -1 series. No, make a mess and stuff all you can into 2 so that the 1 gets some more room! Simple...

[Meeni]

The Mazda 5 sold poorly. Just saying.

[ska///235i]

Not only does BMW make shitty cars now...they also have their guys coming into forums and promote their propaganda

[Monterra]

OMFG that's awful.

[GeeRam]

Originally Posted by cc3

I think BMW is gradually forgetting its roots in favour of a volume war with Audi and. Mercedes. I read today Audi is to introduce 11 new models by the end of the decade. Each one is trying to find a part of the market they don't currently serve just to shift volume following a massive investment in factory capacity. Good news for jobs in those areas where they build the factories but major dilution of brand values. In reality calling this Active Tourer a 2 is deliberate as gives the impression of being better than a 1. They will shift 100000 which will dwarf the Coupe. Yes they want to sell the coupe but probably BMW are not too concerned if they upset the enthusiasts as plenty more money to be made from premium pricing the Active Tourer by calling it a 2.

Yup.

BMW board seem hell bent on turning BMW into VW-Audi, and yet seem to fail to realise that most people buy a BMW because..... it's NOT an Audi...... (or insert similar make)


As I said, BMW building this sort of junk only pushes me in a different direction away from the brand, it certainley doesn't inspire me to buy another one.

Shame.

[puma1552]

I hate this as much as everyone else, but I see a lot of people saying they will not buy another BMW, they will look elsewhere, etc. etc.

Unfortunately the reality is these are empty threats, very few will actually vote with their wallets when it comes down to it, most will run right back to the BMW dealer for their next car anyway.

[Rupes]

Originally Posted by GeeRam

Yup.

BMW board seem hell bent on turning BMW into VW-Audi, and yet seem to fail to realise that most people buy a BMW because..... it's NOT an Audi...... (or insert similar make)


As I said, BMW building this sort of junk only pushes me in a different direction away from the brand, it certainley doesn't inspire me to buy another one.

Shame.

Ditto, but sales are up big time for BMW, so what do we know? In the end, that's all that matters. We'll have to migrate to another manufacturer that caters to our request for a reasonably priced sporty car.

I was thinking the other day, you know what made BMW successful in the past? They made the absolute best car they could for the price. Now, they must consider things like, "if we make the 2 series more attractive than the 4 series, we won't sell the 4 series." That's a serious problem in my opinion.

[Rupes]

Originally Posted by puma1552

I hate this as much as everyone else, but I see a lot of people saying they will not buy another BMW, they will look elsewhere, etc. etc.

Unfortunately the reality is these are empty threats, very few will actually vote with their wallets when it comes down to it, most will run right back to the BMW dealer for their next car anyway.

Spoken like an exec from GM/Chrysler/Ford. This is true...until it's not true anymore. If good cars stop being produced, brand loyalty will eventually wear thin.

[dmboone25]

Originally Posted by GeeRam

I hope you won't be too dissapointed with it.......

As someone that has driven it's mechanically identical hatchback cousin, I won't be replacing my E82 with a M235 anytime soon or ever probably.
Getting back into my E82 afterwards was heaven.


I doubt I'll be buying another BMW at all to be honest - as they clearly have decided to stop making affordable, decent drivers cars in favour of

I'm sure the M2 if they make it, will be a peach, but it won't be affordable.

I hope not as well.

To be honest, I loved my first 135 much more than this one...the N54 was more satisfying, and I am not a fan of the DCT in my current car. Don't get me wrong, it is a technical masterpiece...and I know I will shift slower, but I don't care. I don't track my cars, so the extra couple of tenths or whole seconds don't matter to me...

So the MT and the (in my opinion) much improved looks are the reasons for giving the M235 a shot...I have now had an E82 since 2008, and I am just a little tired of it.

I am also hopeful that the 325 BHP of the M235 will "feel" like my N54 did stock...I have to admit that I am simply not a fan of the N55...

We shall see how it goes...

[advantage20]

Originally Posted by cc3

I think BMW is gradually forgetting its roots in favour of a volume war with Audi and. Mercedes. I read today Audi is to introduce 11 new models by the end of the decade. Each one is trying to find a part of the market they don't currently serve just to shift volume following a massive investment in factory capacity. Good news for jobs in those areas where they build the factories but major dilution of brand values. In reality calling this Active Tourer a 2 is deliberate as gives the impression of being better than a 1. They will shift 100000 which will dwarf the Coupe. Yes they want to sell the coupe but probably BMW are not too concerned if they upset the enthusiasts as plenty more money to be made from premium pricing the Active Tourer by calling it a 2.

Yes BMW is probably afraid they won't be able to sell a "1 Series Active Tourer" as well as they would a "2 Series Active Tourer", because Mercedes has its B-Class (where B > A kind of like 2 > 1) and Audi will have its A3 sportsvan (3 >> 1).

Which means that they think the number 1 does not bring enough to the table and is of no value in the consumer's mind. Yet they have a big seller with the 1 Series lineup already at its second generation. So basically instead of reinforcing the image of the 1 lineup by various marketing moves and then slotting the Active Tourer where it belongs (in the 1 lineup, definitely not in the 2) which in turn would even more reinforce the image and consistency of the 1 lineup, they are actually saying: nah, 1 does not sound good enough, the 1 Series hatch is called like crap, we wonder why people even buy it and they definitely won't buy a 1 minivan... Which is nonsense as the market proves. And if BMW has an inferiority complex to Audi because their competitors are 1 or even 2 numbers below their Audi counterpart (1er - A3, 3er - A4, X5 - Q7), well then they either assume their nomenclature or change it.

So in the end, with this move they are ridiculing not only the 2 Series lineup and their whole model hierarchy, but also the 1 Series lineup as being pretendedly unworthy of a more expensive model (do people restrain from buying the M135i because 1 doesn't sound upmarket enough?!).

[Meeni]

Should have called it X2 or something. Ultimately I don't care. It just is another stone along a disturbing path that ends up into making crap cars like GM did some years ago.

[dmboone25]

Originally Posted by Rupes

Ditto, but sales are up big time for BMW, so what do we know? In the end, that's all that matters. We'll have to migrate to another manufacturer that caters to our request for a reasonably priced sporty car.

I was thinking the other day, you know what made BMW successful in the past? They made the absolute best car they could for the price. Now, they must consider things like, "if we make the 2 series more attractive than the 4 series, we won't sell the 4 series." That's a serious problem in my opinion.

+1

In my experience with BMW, you used to "get more bang for your buck" in that the engines were typically underrated and it was usually class-leading BHP and handling at whatever price point you happened to be interested in...

I think both of those things are changing--prices are def. climbing, and the relative performance and feel of the new cars has been criticized for this type of "slippage" pretty consistently...

[lasovan]

Originally Posted by Meeni

Should have called it X2 or something. Ultimately I don't care. It just is another stone along a disturbing path that ends up into making crap cars like GM did some years ago.

In fact there were rumors quite some time ago that such cars as MPVs or similar utility oriented BMWs could be named "V" or "F" series if I remember correctly. That naming would be way better.

[GeeRam]

Originally Posted by dmboone25

I am also hopeful that the 325 BHP of the M235 will "feel" like my N54 did stock...I have to admit that I am simply not a fan of the N55...

If you're not a fan of the N55, why on earth are you buying a M235.....

You want notice any significant difference to the N55 in your E82.

A few more hp won't make it feel like a N54 at all, the almost identical engine in the M135 certainley doesn't feel like a N54 at all.


I hope you like the inferior electric steering as well.

I'll be keenly waiting to see what you do think of it when the time comes.

[GeeRam]

Originally Posted by puma1552

I hate this as much as everyone else, but I see a lot of people saying they will not buy another BMW, they will look elsewhere, etc. etc.

Unfortunately the reality is these are empty threats, very few will actually vote with their wallets when it comes down to it, most will run right back to the BMW dealer for their next car anyway.

Not an empty threat from me.

I don't buy a badge or some marketing brand bullshit, I buy the car.

If BMW build a car in the future that I'm interested in buying and I can afford it, I'll buy it. If another maker makes something better or more interesting or suits my needs better, I'll buy that instead regardless of what badge is on it.

[F30AM]

Sorry, but in my very humble and considered opinion, that car is a dog.

[Wykydtron]

Originally Posted by Powaup

BMW: lets change the name of our cars so the coupes are even numbers and the odd numbers are sedans... And lets introduce a 2 series car built purposely for enthusiasts... Wait lets throw a hideous. bulky, FWD car in the 2 series lineup... I think it will look good there

ha, well said

[dmboone25]

Originally Posted by GeeRam

If you're not a fan of the N55, why on earth are you buying a M235.....

You want notice any significant difference to the N55 in your E82.

A few more hp won't make it feel like a N54 at all, the almost identical engine in the M135 certainley doesn't feel like a N54 at all.


I hope you like the inferior electric steering as well.

I'll be keenly waiting to see what you do think of it when the time comes.

Well....perhaps I will get a tune or the PPK this time...and I think the outside of the car looks much better than the E82...

And if you want rear wheel drive in a small coupe, and you want it to be German, well, there's not many other choices...

Most of my appetite for exciting driving is satisfied with my bike, but I am hoping the new styling with a MT will make up for that which my E82 lacks currently, at least in my opinion...

The N54 was indeed a beast.

[aspensilver]

It's tough to stomach a BMW minivan, but I can see why they want to add this car to the lineup--needs its own designation, not 2 series though.