05-04-2015, 04:08 PM | #89 | |
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I see that now. Thank you. I just learned something. Correction: Yes, you can get non RFT tires in the US. And this is a great thing too as I am not a fan of RFT's. With this option I may actually go ahead with getting a set of winter sport tires and run the non RFT's for summer. On my last 2 BMW's I ditched the RFT's within a couple of months. BTW, what comes in the "mobility kit"? Thanks for the info. |
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05-04-2015, 04:35 PM | #90 |
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Mobility kit: pump and sealant.
Now, with larger damage you will need either a donut spare (takes up trunk ******* or call for AAA/BMW Assist. I really hope to not experience that situation too often.
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05-04-2015, 04:45 PM | #91 | |
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On my '09 135i and my current '13 335i I am running non RFT tires, and on both cars I luckily didn't have any issues with tires. I figured I would just call BMW assist. It's great that we at least have a non RFT option. |
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05-04-2015, 07:03 PM | #92 |
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He had to be spinning the all seasons. I could do it easily on mine, this car is seriously undertired with the all seasons. Switching to Bridgestone RE-11's and I get minimal to no spin depending on conditions.
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05-04-2015, 10:17 PM | #93 | |
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"Instead of a permanent torque split (which is featured in earlier systems), xDrive provides variable torque split between the front and rear axles through the use of a multi-plate wet clutch located in the gearbox on the output to the front drive shaft. This setup allows xDrive to modulate the torque split between the front and the rear axles, which is normally split at 40:60 ratio. If wheel slip is detected by the ABS/DSC system, xDrive can react within a tenth of a second to redistribute up to 100% of the engine power to the front or rear axle.[1] The wet clutch is applied through a high speed electric servo motor turning a cam-shaped actuator disc. xDrive is connected to the ABS and DSC systems. In the case that wheelspin or directional instability still occurs while xDrive is or has been modulating the torque split, DSC will brake independent wheels to regain traction and improve directional stability without driver intervention. The front and rear differentials in xDrive vehicles are typically an open differential design, thus relying on brake application by the DSC system to transfer power from the slipping wheel to the wheel with traction." you get it now? |
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05-05-2015, 05:13 AM | #94 | ||||
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Still, I've never been a big believer in Wikipedia as proof anything, but hey, what the hell, I need a laugh this morning. Quote:
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Of course this claim only works if this is (a) something new to the discussion and (b) a source that can't be easily overridden by a more authoritative source. That's the problem with Wikipeidia. As it can be edited by anyone, it's not really reliable. In fact, lots of edit wars there have occurred over information being added / removed because its attribution is suspect. So let's go back to post #56 and the BMW document I linked to. The link is still good: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...92291466,d.cWc (same caveat about it downloading a Word file to your machine)". You'll find much of the information above in it, including information about xDrive and DSC interacting that I included in post 56 itself. So, really, go back to post #56 and read it. See that part in bold? The one describing the function you have above and that I referenced? Functionally the same, isn't it? Talks about DSC being used to provide the transverse power distribution. Because, remember, the issue is your insistence that an xDrive car can't shift torque side-to-side, as expressed back in post #58: "If that's what you mean with vary torque side to side then you are right..... but it's really not varying anything... it's sending the same torque all the time to each wheel and then wasting the torque with the brakes" Because that sets up the laugh of the day with your Wikipedia quote that reads [bold is mine] .... Quote:
Seriously, after multiple posts yammering that xDrive has nothing to do with brakes and that power can't be transferred side-to-side, you're now posting that the system works by applying brakes and transferring power from one side to the other. Oh, and let me save you the trouble of trying to memory hole the "can't do side-to-side power transfer" issue and move this into a "No, it's the DSC that does it, not xDrive!" regime. Do a bit of part searching first, and learn the difference between the DSC module that runs the system in RWD cars and the DXC module that runs the system in xDrive cars. Make sure you know what parts can and can't be turned off in each, especially in the DXC module. You could save your self some further embarrassment. Or not. Your choice.
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Prior 40 years: 67 BelAir wagon / 68 LeMans Tempest / 70 Mustang Mach 1 / 72 El Dorado / 78 Corvette / 81 Subaru GL wagon 4WD / 83 s10 Blazer 4x4 / 85 Bronco 4x4 / 96 Bronco 4x4 / 04 Passat 4mo / 09 BMW 335xi Last edited by Zooks527; 05-05-2015 at 05:37 AM.. |
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05-05-2015, 08:50 AM | #95 | |
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05-05-2015, 10:29 AM | #96 | |
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xDrive on it's own "can't do side-to-side torque transfer" it's the DSC the one who brakes and makes the gimiki toque transfer... It's in bold and red... if you don't get it then so be it... According to you then the RWD M235 can also transfer torque side to side as when one wheel slip then DSC will apply the brakes... |
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05-05-2015, 10:30 AM | #97 | |
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To each there own, but I always tune my BMW's and I've gone the RWD w/tune route and while it was super fast up top, it was tricky at best to launch from a stop and even a slight drizzle in the air and forget about going anywhere quick. So yes, if you live in AZ or Southern Cal, and never get rain and can see the argument. But in a place like Florida that has some rain 1/3 of the days each year, I don't see that it's such an obvious choice. You'd have and AWD car that is great all the time or a RWD car that is great 2/3 of the time. I can see the argument either way, most can't.
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05-05-2015, 11:24 AM | #98 | |
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In fact, IMO my current 228i xDrive cabrio feels about identical to what I remember the M235i RWD coupe felt like when I test drove it last year. Maybe at the performance margins there's a diff, but not in regular daily city and highway driving conditions.
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05-05-2015, 11:32 AM | #99 | |
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05-05-2015, 11:54 AM | #100 |
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As I just picked up my 228i two weeks ago, I couldn't really tell any difference between the awd or rwd implementation during my test drives. Both pulled hard and felt great in the twisties. I opted for the rwd for weight and to slide the rear end out in corners when available...
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05-05-2015, 12:13 PM | #101 | |
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05-05-2015, 12:49 PM | #102 |
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Oh my - i have made another 2,000 km (which, considering my RWD/LSD M235i is 2-weeks-old, is technically doubling its mileage) - and your're still up and kicking to make this thread alive?!! With funny large, colorful fonts, and references to Wikipedia?
Guys, you really seem you don't have anything better to do. And I'll only take my liberty to repeat: - yes, any AWD car (including xDrive BMW) is potentially better in putting the engine torque to the ground - but only for a first few hundreds of miles/kilometers (or the first few seconds from the standstill) - yes, an AWD car (including xDrive BMW) provides this fake feeling of safety when a mediocre driver just wants to only take care of the steering wheel and the gas pedal - YES: a real BMW is a front-engine, rear drive car; the more power/torque the engine provides, the more challenging it is for a self-demanding driver - YES: a mechanical LSD can help such a driver in a good way, i.e. he still needs to to know more of what's he's doing (as opposed to the AWD driver), but the laws of physics fortunately start to actually help him in his conscious way of driving Thank you for your attention (if any )...
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05-05-2015, 01:11 PM | #103 | |
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05-05-2015, 02:06 PM | #104 | ||
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It's a useful tool, but has little credibility. Anyone can edit the articles. Someone could go to the xDrive article in the next 5 minutes and edit it to read "Torque is shifted from front to back by magic pikcachus running blindly on the driveshafts with their heads up their backsides" and it would be there until someone bothered to erase it. Wikipedia is useful as a place to start looking for correct information. No one would ever use it for attribution. It would get you failed if you tried to use it as a reference in a high school bookreport onwards. Which is why you'll note that all my links have come from BMW. No magazine articles, no YouTube reviews, just BMW. But, hey, you're impressed by Wikipedia. Why am I not surprised? Quote:
So you've conceded completely on how the car functions, but you want to continue to stomp your little feet and hold your breath until your face turns blue over semantics? Jeez, most of us outgrew that in grammar school.
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Prior 40 years: 67 BelAir wagon / 68 LeMans Tempest / 70 Mustang Mach 1 / 72 El Dorado / 78 Corvette / 81 Subaru GL wagon 4WD / 83 s10 Blazer 4x4 / 85 Bronco 4x4 / 96 Bronco 4x4 / 04 Passat 4mo / 09 BMW 335xi Last edited by Zooks527; 05-05-2015 at 02:16 PM.. |
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05-05-2015, 02:10 PM | #105 | |
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05-05-2015, 02:11 PM | #106 |
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This thread sucks.
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05-05-2015, 02:25 PM | #107 |
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Personally, I can't sense any difference in acceleration between the AWD 228i, the RWD 228i or the RWD M235i - but I don't take-off like a maniac.
All 3 of those variants I've driven feel identical in handling/performance - given the way I drive daily. I guess that could (and probably would) be different if I tracked and/or auto-crossed my vehicles - which I don't. I expect the noticeable difference in acceleration, handling and performance relating to AWD will show up when winter weather moves in.
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05-05-2015, 02:44 PM | #108 | |
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05-05-2015, 03:20 PM | #109 |
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With equivalent tires, the AWD winter advantage is limited to getting moving. Braking and turning to stop or avoid safely are a function of the tires, hopefully dedicated winter tires. AWD with winters >RWD with winters>>>AWD with all season>RWD with all season. Modest difference between cars with similar tires; large difference between tires.
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