[IEDEI]

not really comparable cars, IMO. If you are cross shopping a Camaro and an M2 you should probably just get the Camaro.

[W///]

Originally Posted by AT-ST

The Camaro will easily outsell the M2. It will be significantly cheaper, and much more accessible/popular.

Owned a 5th gen... You'd be hard pressed to find any Camaro folks who would even take a second glance at an M2. It's just not appealing to the average Muscle car type. They're very brand loyal, and very patriotic. Not to mention HP hungry.

Find me a thread even mentioning the M2 on a non BMW forum. (Especially a muscle car forum) And if you by some miracle do find one.. Make note of how much attention it is getting.

You would be hard pressed. I wonder if it will get more attention when they start releasing more details later? I don't imagine it getting the respect it deserves outside of the small following and enthusiasts/journalists.

The M2 is targeting much more of a niche market.
And I would wager that the higher trim Camaro's are going to run circles around an M2. Not just in a straight line either. I wish it weren't the case, but I'd put money on it.

PERSONALLY. I anticipate that the M2 will be a MUCH more enjoyable drive. And I anticipate that I will likely prefer the styling over the Camaro. The Camaro will be a way better deal financially and a better performer. Be interesting to see an M2 vs one of the smaller engine Camaro's ? I just cant imagine the M2 hanging with the v8, especially when the performance trims come out. I think it will certainly best some of the lower tiers though.

Quality isn't even in the same league. GM is horrible. BMW is too expensive though outside of warranty.. So each has their downside.

I always get a kick out of all the non Camaro owners, or.. the "I rented one for a few days" folks... Or, " I sat in one for 5 minutes once. " trying to defend the visibility. Whether you love the car or not, and choose to live with that or not. You absolutely cannot by any logical means deny that the visibility in that thing is absolutely wretched. It is a very very common complaint.

A lot of current owners were disappointed that it was not addressed. And when you live with it on a daily basis, for years... Believe me. It gets old. I never had any trouble parking or driving my car "technically". I never had any accidents. But it was absolutely a nuisance that realistically just subtracts from the pleasure of the driving experience. You have to be willing to sacrifice it for the other features it offers.

I've no interest in owning another Camaro. I loved looking at it. I loved the torque.. That is about where the list of positives end. And I don't imagine myself ever giving another dollar to GM after the past 3 GM vehicles. Not to mention, GM basically addressed NONE of the short-comings of the previous Camaro. Yes, the new one is basically an improvement all around. It looks to be a fantastic car. But not addressing any of the biggest complaints puzzles me.

I am excited to SEE this elusive M2. But tbh, everyone else is showing theirs... I'm getting bored of waiting for virtually any updates on the M2, and the lack of colors deflated my interest further... basically cementing that I will not be interested in the M2 at least for the first couple years of production.

I would like to take one of the later performance trims of the Camaro for a spin. I would like to own a later M2 when they offer more colors and get any tweaks out of the way. If they however decided to only run them for a year or so, or charge an absurd price.. I won't be getting one.

I don't think these two cars are on even playing fields as far as comparing though.
Very different target audience.

M2 = higher cost, higher quality, more balanced, better all round driving experience with a more subtle grown up appearance.
Camaro = cheaper, higher power, better performance and obnoxious styling.

I'd be surprised if the number of people shopping both of them wasn't quite low.

If I had to pick one, it would be the M2 every time though.

Good reply.

The only problem I have with these cars is just how big they are. That ruins the fun for me. I sat in a new Mustang GT and didn't even bother test driving it. Doesn't make sense that a car can be so physically big on the outside, but can't comfortably carry 4 people.

I have 0 doubt that the higher spec cars will run circles around the M2. The one American made product that might somewhat interest me would be the Focus RS. Small, powerful and a hooligan.

[Jackie Chiles]

Originally Posted by Adem1534

Hm, I guess everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but don't act like 'you don't get it' just because you have a different opinion than most.

I think it looks pretty damn good, especially the interior. That's my opinion.

Let me clarify: I don't understand how GM could build a new gen Camaro that is less sporty looking than the prior gen. It looks like a freakin Dodge for chissake!

Is that better?

[sgrinavi]

What's the price of the Camaro ? If you could get in a loaded SS for $40Kish it would be worth a look.

[Lucky13]

The length is the problem, it's 188" long which is 6" longer than a 4 Series and 16" longer than a 2 series. To me the 4 series is too big.

The side window coffin slots are a turn off, this was the biggest fail of the last Camaro in looks as well as looking like a Transformer.

[Spook410]

Originally Posted by W///

<snip>
The one American made product that might somewhat interest me would be the Focus RS. Small, powerful and a hooligan.

I believe these will be made at the Saarlouis assembly plant in Germany.

[gaijin]

My past experience with GM cars is that those show well in photos but not in real life. Finish and quality is lacking compared to its European competitor. I'll wait and see.

[hyperzulu]

Unfortunately I don't find it very good looking and suffers from the "You can rent me at Hertz for only $49 more per day" look.

[Rupes]

Originally Posted by gaijin

My past experience with GM cars is that those show well in photos but not in real life. Finish and quality is lacking compared to its European competitor. I'll wait and see.

That's been my experience too. But my past experience with BMW's included hydraulic steering and naturally aspirated engines. A lot can change in a relatively short period of time. Car mags certainly seem to prefer the new GM lineup over its German rivals.

[csbear]

I am open to cars of different makes and models if I am cross-shopping, but getting the Camaro over an M2...oh boy, that would be a huge regret for me on so many levels.

Now if we moved up to the next step in the Chevy sports car line...then we are talking.

Performance is what we are all after; however, driving a car for me needs to appeal to all the senses. GM interiors just don't cut it vs BMW.

Originally Posted by gaijin

My past experience with GM cars is that those show well in photos but not in real life. Finish and quality is lacking compared to its European competitor. I'll wait and see.

This hasn't changed in like...forever. It won't change now and probably will never change in our lifetime (if GM still exists).

[B///MW]

Originally Posted by sgrinavi

What's the price of the Camaro ? If you could get in a loaded SS for $40Kish it would be worth a look.

Could be worth a look pending test results... hang the Chevy Camaro preconceived notions.

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by rhonig

Could be worth a look pending test results... hang the Chevy Camaro preconceived notions.

Hang ME if I EVER buy a Camaro....

[Steven1077]

Why is this even in the 2 series forum? That thing is as big as a bus, better off having this in the M4 forum, people are looking at the M2 because of it's size and this monstrosity looks huge and has no class at all

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by Steven1077

Why is this even in the 2 series forum? That thing is as big as a bus, better off having this in the M4 forum, people are looking at the M2 because of it's size and this monstrosity looks huge and has no class at all

Agree 100 percent.

This is a Motor Trend comparo. Two wildly different cars that only share the same number of doors and drive wheels. Let's just cut to the chase and do a Motor Trend punt and call them both Winners.


Seriously.... Chevrolet has no M2 competitor. Just this morning, I saw an article from Autoweek lamenting that Chevrolet has no small rear drive sports car and the article referenced the Code 130 R concept car from them.
That as yet unannounced car would be an actual M2 competitor... not the Camaro.



See photos from Car and Driver

http://www.caranddriver.com/photo-ga...-concepts-news

[BIGMIG]

Lol no contest. The Camaro has terrible sight lines especially for someone as tall as me. The cabin is cheap and uncomfortable. The trunk is useless.

V8s are great but the over all package isn't worthy of my time.

[Lucky13]

I've owned one new Camaro in my life, it was a 1982 purchased and actually built in Cincinnati, OH. On the way home from the dealership on the interstate maybe 3-4 miles the entire manual transmission gear shift came off the floor and I was unable to do anything except almost get killed. This along with a couple of POS Fiero's, Olds etc and I was done with GM forever. Now they just kill people with bad ignition switches instead of gear shifters.

[Luftwaffe1O1]

I had an SS Camaro rental for about a week (5th gen). I was pleasantly surprised at how fun that car was. The only problem for me (and this is nothing against the car necessarily) is that it was just too large of a car for my likes.

You definitely felt its size, and how heavy it felt. Even the 235 isn't necessarily a lightweight, it carries it well. I would definitely pick the M2 out of those choices, but that's not based on performance etc. More on looks/personal preference. If I didn't mind the larger cars, how could you not like the bargain performance of the Camaro?

[the_phew]

Long gone are the days when the pony cars were good at smoking tires and not much else. An SS with 1LE for ~$40k may well match/beat the M cars in any metric you choose. The 6th gen Camaro interior actually looks quite good; very sporty without being cheesy like the Mustang. And of course Chevy offers luxury features that aren't available on the M2/3/4, like ventilated seats.

The biggest thing the Camaro has going for it is that it actually has an identity; you know it's about a big V8 that makes loud, mean noises. I love BMWs, but I don't even know what their identity is anymore. It can't be "The Ultimate Driving Machine", since BMW has eschewed many of the things actual driving enthusiasts care about (steering feel, communicative chassis, engine noise, etc). They are in some odd middle ground between Mercedes and Porsche; not as luxurious as a Merc, and not nearly as involving as a Porsche.

I will seriously shop both when my lease is up.

[Alpine F31]

Originally Posted by the_phew

Long gone are the days when the pony cars were good at smoking tires and not much else. An SS with 1LE for ~$40k may well match/beat the M cars in any metric you choose. The 6th gen Camaro interior actually looks quite good; very sporty without being cheesy like the Mustang. And of course Chevy offers luxury features that aren't available on the M2/3/4, like ventilated seats.

The biggest thing the Camaro has going for it is that it actually has an identity; you know it's about a big V8 that makes loud, mean noises. I love BMWs, but I don't even know what their identity is anymore. It can't be "The Ultimate Driving Machine", since BMW has eschewed many of the things actual driving enthusiasts care about (steering feel, communicative chassis, engine noise, etc). They are in some odd middle ground between Mercedes and Porsche; not as luxurious as a Merc, and not nearly as involving as a Porsche.

I will seriously shop both when my lease is up.

Great post.

[W///]

Originally Posted by the_phew

Long gone are the days when the pony cars were good at smoking tires and not much else. An SS with 1LE for ~$40k may well match/beat the M cars in any metric you choose. The 6th gen Camaro interior actually looks quite good; very sporty without being cheesy like the Mustang. And of course Chevy offers luxury features that aren't available on the M2/3/4, like ventilated seats.

The biggest thing the Camaro has going for it is that it actually has an identity; you know it's about a big V8 that makes loud, mean noises. I love BMWs, but I don't even know what their identity is anymore. It can't be "The Ultimate Driving Machine", since BMW has eschewed many of the things actual driving enthusiasts care about (steering feel, communicative chassis, engine noise, etc). They are in some odd middle ground between Mercedes and Porsche; not as luxurious as a Merc, and not nearly as involving as a Porsche.

I will seriously shop both when my lease is up.

I guess it depends which BMW you are talking about. With the entire lineup minus the 2 Series, I agree. They're more of a hybrid of other brands than true BMW's IMHO.

The 2 series on the other hand, is exactly what BMW has been good at doing. The M2 even more so.

I just have no interest in pony cars. They're all just far too big. I already have an E92 M3, and that already feels like a GT car. I will admit that they do have a lot of personality and charm (not to mention value for money), but it's just not quite what I'm looking for.

[Transfer]

Vs M2? No comparison because one is large and the other is small. I want small and I've already spoken with my wallet and went with 2 series.

Vs M4? I think it would be a pretty tough sell to get me to go with an M4 over a Camaro when you look at the price difference, but I'm more interested in the drive than the prestige. The new Camaro should be a blast and actually has the inside and outside looks to back it up. It's just too big - same problem the M4 has.

[IS3andME]

Originally Posted by hyperzulu

Unfortunately I don't find it very good looking and suffers from the "You can rent me at Hertz for only $49 more per day" look.

You could rent a Shelby GT350H from Hertz back in 1966. This was a time when BMW didn't have the products it has now, nor was known for handling. And Euro cars at the time were known as troublesome to own at best.

Imagine if Ford did reignite that deal with Hertz again, and you could rent the Ford GT350 today. You'd probably have to eat those words.