[Spook410]

I guess this pretty much kills any chance the Volkswagen Golf R400 would make it to the US. Of course there's the big 'if' of whether it will see production at all, but I sure did like the overall concept.

[m981addicts]

I love the looks of the sedan! The hatch looks like a soccermommobile(aka station wagon if you're old enough to remember) on steroids. To each their own.

[Spook410]

The hatch configuration is all about utility. Guess I just belong with all those other bourgeois suburbanites. Always wanted the BMW 135 hatch but couldn't get it in the US. If the X1 XDrive35 came with a manual, I would have one of those. I will express my style in ways that don't impact my ability to move around a mountain bike and/or guitar amp.

[dmboone25]

Originally Posted by W///

It's definitely great to see more competition in this segment. There's absolutely no doubt that this will have some serious performance. Whether it'll be more fun to drive than an M2, that remains to be seen.

For me however, the lack of 6MT is a deal breaker. It really narrows my choices, but that is one thing I will not compromise on.

I have been spending more time in traffic lately in my 235 and the MT does get a bit old in that setting. I might give PDK or DCT another try.

[W///]

Originally Posted by dmboone25

I have been spending more time in traffic lately in my 235 and the MT does get a bit old in that setting. I might give PDK or DCT another try.

I've been there too. Especially last week when I took the e36 M3 up to visit a friend of mine in NC. Got stuck big time in Charlotte and it was a chore with the MT. However, I've tried AT and DCT plenty of times to know that I'd regret that decision if I purchased one.

The M2 would potentially be my first car I buy new. And with MTs slowy dissappearing, and compact BMWs with rwd and compact size also becoming a rarity, it would only make sense for me to go this route.

There will be a time where I won't have a choice when it comes to transmissions, so I fully plan on taking advantage of this MT.

[///Mobbin]

Originally Posted by dmboone25

I have been spending more time in traffic lately in my 235 and the MT does get a bit old in that setting. I might give PDK or DCT another try.

My last two cars were a DCT e93 M3 and a PDK C2S. The DCT really bothered me at slow speeds, kind of sluggish and just weird, granted it wasn't designed for driving around in parking garages. That was before my days at the track. With the C2S the PDK was absolutely amazing at the track but got kind of boring on the daily commute. It was better sorted at slow speeds but still had some of its own slow speed issues. FWIW I have heard newer DCT's are better sorted than the first-gen version I had in the e93. Fast forward, I'm driving a 6MT S4 now and am re-committed to manuals again! So much more fun and involving on the streets. I also really appreciate low-end torque on the street, lets you experience some of the power during the daily commute (something the M2 will have). I get the traffic thing but my advice would be to stick with the manual! Of course, I had to learn the hard way to appreciate this myself, so maybe either path will work.

[dmboone25]

Originally Posted by W///

I've been there too. Especially last week when I took the e36 M3 up to visit a friend of mine in NC. Got stuck big time in Charlotte and it was a chore with the MT. However, I've tried AT and DCT plenty of times to know that I'd regret that decision if I purchased one.

The M2 would potentially be my first car I buy new. And with MTs slowy dissappearing, and compact BMWs with rwd and compact size also becoming a rarity, it would only make sense for me to go this route.

There will be a time where I won't have a choice when it comes to transmissions, so I fully plan on taking advantage of this MT.

Totally makes sense - and perhaps I am "spoiled" because all my cars that I have ever had have been MT (except one). Ideally you could have something fun and comfortable for DD driving (auto) and then something insane for tracking or windy roads (manual) - but I can't swing that just yet.

Originally Posted by ///Mobbin

My last two cars were a DCT e93 M3 and a PDK C2S. The DCT really bothered me at slow speeds, kind of sluggish and just weird, granted it wasn't designed for driving around in parking garages. That was before my days at the track. With the C2S the PDK was absolutely amazing at the track but got kind of boring on the daily commute. It was better sorted at slow speeds but still had some of its own slow speed issues. FWIW I have heard newer DCT's are better sorted than the first-gen version I had in the e93. Fast forward, I'm driving a 6MT S4 now and am re-committed to manuals again! So much more fun and involving on the streets. I also really appreciate low-end torque on the street, lets you experience some of the power during the daily commute (something the M2 will have). I get the traffic thing but my advice would be to stick with the manual! Of course, I had to learn the hard way to appreciate this myself, so maybe either path will work.

I think we probably had similar DCTs - mine was in a 2010 135, and I didn't love that application combined with the N55. It felt very fast, but somehow disconnected. Maybe I fool myself into believing that I can row my own gears as well as the computer does, but the experience is what we are really going after here.

During my ongoing flirtation with the F80, I have test driven an F82 three separate times, and I was very impressed with the DCT in that car. It was very snappy and responsive - and the number of ways you can dial the thing in made me think there would have to be a setting for any "mood" you might be in. I am not familiar with the newer Porsche PDK, but my good buddy has a C2S vert and the clutch in that thing will make your left leg look like Arnold's.

Decisions, decisions....

[filet.M2c]

I have had 1 auto, granted it was a SMG e46 M3 which was dreadful, but I have to go MT. I drove a DCT e92 M3 and though it was quick, I just didn't care for it. What is the driving experience with DCT? Right foot gas, slowing down RF brake... and some finger action to switch gears. My left foot ends up flailing around looking for something to do. Manuals have been and will continue to be a far more engaging driving experience. For me, it boils down to how you plan on driving the car. Want a fun and engaging driving experience for road driving? Go MT. Want either a non-strenuous road driving experience or the fastest lap time possible? Go DCT.

[W///]

Originally Posted by dmboone25

Totally makes sense - and perhaps I am "spoiled" because all my cars that I have ever had have been MT (except one). Ideally you could have something fun and comfortable for DD driving (auto) and then something insane for tracking or windy roads (manual) - but I can't swing that just yet.



I think we probably had similar DCTs - mine was in a 2010 135, and I didn't love that application combined with the N55. It felt very fast, but somehow disconnected. Maybe I fool myself into believing that I can row my own gears as well as the computer does, but the experience is what we are really going after here.

During my ongoing flirtation with the F80, I have test driven an F82 three separate times, and I was very impressed with the DCT in that car. It was very snappy and responsive - and the number of ways you can dial the thing in made me think there would have to be a setting for any "mood" you might be in. I am not familiar with the newer Porsche PDK, but my good buddy has a C2S vert and the clutch in that thing will make your left leg look like Arnold's.

Decisions, decisions....

All my cars have all been MT, minus the beater 4Runner I have
I've driven the E9x M3 with DCT and got "bored" within a couple of hours just because it was almost too easy. Same with the F82s I drove a couple of time. Having said that, I will say that they are extremely impressive and are definitely quicker than MT. I'm not even going to pretend I could be anywhere as quick.

Not to mention our version of traffic is so mild that I could never have a need for an auto just because of that. Also, I actually really enjoyed the auto rev match feature on the M3/4. It lets you be "lazy" when you don't feel like doing everything yourself. It's great. I really hope the M2 gets it too.

Originally Posted by synergist

I have had 1 auto, granted it was a SMG e46 M3 which was dreadful, but I have to go MT. I drove a DCT e92 M3 and though it was quick, I just didn't care for it. What is the driving experience with DCT? Right foot gas, slowing down RF brake... and some finger action to switch gears. My left foot ends up flailing around looking for something to do. Manuals have been and will continue to be a far more engaging driving experience. For me, it boils down to how you plan on driving the car. Want a fun and engaging driving experience for road driving? Go MT. Want either a non-strenuous road driving experience or the fastest lap time possible? Go DCT.

Exactly right. The first time I drove the E9x M3 was at the Performance Center and I was in love with it. The second time I rented one from the Welt and had it for 24 hours. Of course, I drove around Munich like an a$$, playing with DCT in every tunnel I drove through. I just got bored after that because I was shifting just for the sake of hearing the engine.

I've had my 6MT E92 for almost 3 years now, and still absolutely love the hell out of it. Much more fun when you aren't at the track IMHO.

[hyperzulu]

I find the S3 to be a little oddly shaped. The hatch suits its shape better. I know the M235i has its fair share of odd angles, but what you see is what you get. With the Audi, they look more diminutive in person than they do in the pictures, where they always somehow manage to make the car look longer and more sleek than it really is.

If they bring a more refined interior to the RS3 than they did with the S3, it should be a nice product. A proper diff, perhaps. More power. Should be nice.

[filet.M2c]

Originally Posted by W///

All my cars have all been MT, minus the beater 4Runner I have
Also, I actually really enjoyed the auto rev match feature on the M3/4. It lets you be "lazy" when you don't feel like doing everything yourself. It's great. I really hope the M2 gets it too.

I am looking forward to testing out the auto-rev match and from what I have read everyone who has it actually appreciate it. This decreases the validity of the argument, "MT is a pain for driving in traffic." Driving manual is almost like 2nd nature to me now, and putting the car in comfort mode with auto rev match just lowers the threshold of ability for people to enter the manual realm while offering comfort for those who want it. This illustrates that BMW is willing to invest some R&D in manuals and I'm all for that. I'm with you, I really hope they include this feature in the M2.

[dmboone25]

Originally Posted by synergist

I am looking forward to testing out the auto-rev match and from what I have read everyone who has it actually appreciate it. This decreases the validity of the argument, "MT is a pain for driving in traffic." Driving manual is almost like 2nd nature to me now, and putting the car in comfort mode with auto rev match just lowers the threshold of ability for people to enter the manual realm while offering comfort for those who want it. This illustrates that BMW is willing to invest some R&D in manuals and I'm all for that. I'm with you, I really hope they include this feature in the M2.

I would be down to use this feature - I think it is really cool - alas, my 235 doesn't have it.

[Black Gold]

Originally Posted by dmboone25

The RS3 is interesting because many people think the F80 is too big, but would enjoy the practicality of 4 doors. The RS3 might slide in there nicely as another option - I am certainly interested.

you said it, brother

this is how I feel

[IS3andME]

Originally Posted by m981addicts

I love the looks of the sedan! The hatch looks like a soccermommobile(aka station wagon if you're old enough to remember) on steroids. To each their own.

Soccer mom mobiles are minivans and SUVs. The station wagon was before the whole soccermom phrase was coined---due to political reasons, I believe.

[W///]

Originally Posted by KennyPowers

you said it, brother

this is how I feel

I'm on the same boat. I'd actually prefer a hatchback or a wagon, and quite frankly, I don't want to keep adding coupes (already got 2). But I'd rather have a 6MT coupe, than an AWD dual clutch sedan.

If only BMW would build cars I really really want.

[Mp3ccable]

Originally Posted by hyperzulu

I find the S3 to be a little oddly shaped. The hatch suits its shape better. I know the M235i has its fair share of odd angles, but what you see is what you get. With the Audi, they look more diminutive in person than they do in the pictures, where they always somehow manage to make the car look longer and more sleek than it really is.

If they bring a more refined interior to the RS3 than they did with the S3, it should be a nice product. A proper diff, perhaps. More power. Should be nice.

I concur, hyperzulu. I test drove many vehicles in the latter months of last year; including the M235i, until I ultimately decided on the S3. If my main focal point had been aesthetics then I would have unquestionably chose the BMW over Audi. Certainly, BMW did incorporate some odd angles with the exterior design, but the ergonomics and design of the cabin, in my opinion, are superior to that of the S3. The Spartan styling concept Audi has used with the A/S3 platform is sub-standard from their usual pedigree of stellar interiors. The only reason I purchased the S3 over the M235i was because of the Quattro AWD system. I've always driven RWD vehicles but given the increasingly bad winters southwestern PA has had recently, I decided to make the switch to what I thought was a top-notch AWD system. I thought I had done my due diligence but you never can tell if you're going to be pleased with your decision until you've experienced it over the course of time. And, I have been anything but pleased with the S3 and it's Quattro system. In hindsight, I wish I would have chosen the M235i. I've certainly learned a valuable lesson in that I should not choose a product solely for one pro or con. But, with that said, I'm anxiously awaiting the release of the M2 so I can make the switch to BMW. I don't doubt that Audi will improve upon the S3 with the RS3, but I suspect it will be marginal.

[///Mobbin]

Originally Posted by Mp3ccable

I concur, hyperzulu. I test drove many vehicles in the latter months of last year; including the M235i, until I ultimately decided on the S3. If my main focal point had been aesthetics then I would have unquestionably chose the BMW over Audi. Certainly, BMW did incorporate some odd angles with the exterior design, but the ergonomics and design of the cabin, in my opinion, are superior to that of the S3. The Spartan styling concept Audi has used with the A/S3 platform is sub-standard from their usual pedigree of stellar interiors. The only reason I purchased the S3 over the M235i was because of the Quattro AWD system. I've always driven RWD vehicles but given the increasingly bad winters southwestern PA has had recently, I decided to make the switch to what I thought was a top-notch AWD system. I thought I had done my due diligence but you never can tell if you're going to be pleased with your decision until you've experienced it over the course of time. And, I have been anything but pleased with the S3 and it's Quattro system. In hindsight, I wish I would have chosen the M235i. I've certainly learned a valuable lesson in that I should not choose a product solely for one pro or con. But, with that said, I'm anxiously awaiting the release of the M2 so I can make the switch to BMW. I don't doubt that Audi will improve upon the S3 with the RS3, but I suspect it will be marginal.

It appears as though BMW will steal some marketshare from its competition with the M2 (I currently drive an Audi S4 myself). I hope they take that to heart and don't worry so much about cannibalizing M3/M4 sales as they go to finalize this model.

[jasonheaddinG]

Originally Posted by ///Mobbin

It appears as though BMW will steal some marketshare from its competition with the M2 (I currently drive an Audi S4 myself). I hope they take that to heart and don't worry so much about cannibalizing M3/M4 sales as they go to finalize this model.

I think it's too late for that...I was in the same boat. I have said this multiple times but I was hoping this would be the BMW to have, not so sure now. Already have a 235i and came from an S4. with the announcement of the rs3 I am now seriously considering going back....if it was an avant/sportback, no question.

I know we still have time but with talk now of a GTS model, the initial M2 will be very basic from what it things sound like.

[M3R1]

Originally Posted by m981addicts

I love the looks of the sedan! The hatch looks like a soccermommobile(aka station wagon if you're old enough to remember) on steroids. To each their own.

[IEDEI]

Originally Posted by Mp3ccable

I concur, hyperzulu. I test drove many vehicles in the latter months of last year; including the M235i, until I ultimately decided on the S3. If my main focal point had been aesthetics then I would have unquestionably chose the BMW over Audi. Certainly, BMW did incorporate some odd angles with the exterior design, but the ergonomics and design of the cabin, in my opinion, are superior to that of the S3. The Spartan styling concept Audi has used with the A/S3 platform is sub-standard from their usual pedigree of stellar interiors. The only reason I purchased the S3 over the M235i was because of the Quattro AWD system. I've always driven RWD vehicles but given the increasingly bad winters southwestern PA has had recently, I decided to make the switch to what I thought was a top-notch AWD system. I thought I had done my due diligence but you never can tell if you're going to be pleased with your decision until you've experienced it over the course of time. And, I have been anything but pleased with the S3 and it's Quattro system. In hindsight, I wish I would have chosen the M235i. I've certainly learned a valuable lesson in that I should not choose a product solely for one pro or con. But, with that said, I'm anxiously awaiting the release of the M2 so I can make the switch to BMW. I don't doubt that Audi will improve upon the S3 with the RS3, but I suspect it will be marginal.

what tires did you run in the winter. It is ALL about the tires. I had no issues in my 1M this year with Nokian Hakkapeliitta R2s and we had a heavy winter and I drove 65 miles away to work in every single snow storm.

[dmboone25]

Originally Posted by KennyPowers

you said it, brother

this is how I feel

Let's hope it is as good as some of the early ride-alongs and specs indicate.

Originally Posted by W///

I'm on the same boat. I'd actually prefer a hatchback or a wagon, and quite frankly, I don't want to keep adding coupes (already got 2). But I'd rather have a 6MT coupe, than an AWD dual clutch sedan.

If only BMW would build cars I really really want.

We are a lot alike in this way - we have both said that if they made a 5 door 1M that we would be down, but even Europe doesn't get one of those.

The redesigned front of the M135 looks awesome - add in a LSD, the chassis from the M2, the M brakes and suspension, wider hips in the rear and 40 more BHP and I am sold!

[el_]

German web configurator for RS 3 hatch is online now: http://www.audi.de/de/brand/de/neuwa...ack/motor.html

Have fun ;-)